on

a

year in tobacco duty, and only 10s. in tea duty. I am therefore unable to follow the argument of the honourable and learned Member for Dundee, who urged that a greater relief would be given by taking off the tea duty than by adopting the course which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has chosen. The point that there are fewer smokers than drinkers of tea has nothing in it, for children and women who drink tea are, in many cases, not money-earners, and the tobacco is consumed and paid for by the member of the family who earns the money, or, at any rate, carries the purse. Therefore it may be said that the less he has to pay for his tobacco the more there will be left with which to buy tea. The proportion of duty levied on tobacco is out of all proportion to that levied on tea. Ordinary leaf tobacco imported into this country, costs only 7d. a pound, yet on this a duty is levied of 3s. 2d.; probably one of the heaviest burdens imposed in any country in the world on such an article. My criticism on the Budget, then, is not that the Chancellor has not chosen tea, but that

duty proposed by the late Sir Stafford | amount of tea duty is only 1s. 10d. Northcote. Now, the duty on the tea If, therefore, 5 persons are allowed consumed in this country varies only from to the family, each family pays 30s. 10 or 12 to 1. I have had a good deal of experience of the tea consumed in workhouses, and I can sav that the tea consumed there is about double the price of the cheapest tea consumed, and is about 8d. per pound. Now, that tea has to compete with the 4s. per pound tea, which is to a small extent consumed by the very rich, so that the discrepancy is not very great between that which is consumed by the rich, who have a fancied taste, and that consumed by the poor. But. in the case of the tobacco duty, the difference between what the poor pay and what the rich pay is something enormous and overwhelming, and if this question is to be treated on democratic lines, I can assure the House that the more they look into this matter the more they will be convinced that the most anti-democratic tax is that tobacco. Reference has been made to encouraging trade with India, but allow me to point out that the cheapest kinds of tobacco grown in India are excluded from this country altogether, because it does not pay to bring them over here. The House will, therefore, see what an overwhelming interest this is. I remember when the tobacco duties were increased the opposition of some Radicals in this House, and I recollect that on one occasion a Member representing a northern town, in addressing the House, pointed out that the dearest cigars now to consider whether the reduction smoked by honourable Members of this House paid only 2 per cent. duty, as of 6d., so that a halfpenny might be taken may not be made 8d. a pound instead compared with 500 per cent. on an off every half-ounce. By this means the average, or 1,700 per cent. paid in concession will reach a much larger secextreme cases by the poorer classes. 1 tion of the public, especially the very put in these words of caution in consepoor. There is another ground upon quence of what has fallen from the Chan-which I think that the Chancellor of the cellor of the Exchequer about an understanding, and I also put in this argument that the relieving of the tea duty cannot be argued on democratic principles against that of tobacco.

he has not taken more off tobacco. I

fear that the Treasury were too clever in the matter, and that most of what appears to be gained by the reduction in duty will be lost to the public by the be introduced. I ask the Chancellor even less degree of moisture. which can now

Exchequer might have gone a little
farther. He assumed that he would have
£150,000 less to give away, because of
the smaller produce of the death duties,
but since that time three millionaires
have died.

*MR. LOUGH: I desire to illustrate with
a few figures the argument which my right
honourable Friend has just used. The MEANS: Order, order!

THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND

average amount of tobacco duty paid per MR. LOUGH: I see that I must not head of the population in Great proceed with this argument, and it is Britain is 5s. 7d., and the average difficult to know what you may go into. Sir C. Dilke.

As I am in favour of the proposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and my only criticism is that he has not gone farther, I will simply leave it there.

Amendment proposed

"Line 6, to leave out the words 'Four Pence,' and insert the words 'Two Pence instead thereof."-Mr. J. A. Pease.)

MR. J. A. PEASE (Northumberland, Tyneside): I feel very strongly upon this question. A similar Amendment was moved last year, so that we shall be consistent in raising this question again when the Bill comes forward for the Second Reading, when I hope honourable Gentle men will adopt a similar attitude to that which they took up before.

*THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE QUER: The advocates of tobacco on the one side and of tea on the other have left a balance considerably in favour of tobacco; therefore I will not trouble the Committee with any addition to what I said in my Budget speech as to the reasons that induced me-I think with the

The

he and other honourable Members, who
considered my estimates of revenue last
year were too low, should have been
anxious to reduce the indirect taxa-
tion which I then proposed.
But now,
Sir, circumstances are different.
honourable Member made no allega-
tion similar to that which he made
last year about the revenue, and he does
not disapprove of the reduction of the
taxation on tobacco, but he would rather
reduce the taxation on tea. The result,
however, of accepting his Amendment
would be that taxation would be reduced
on both articles, and if that were done
proper provision for our fiscal needs
would not be made. But, after what has
been said, I have no doubt that this
subject will be discussed at the proper
time on the Second Reading of the
Budget Bill, and, therefore, I hope that
the honourable Member will not press his
proposal now.

MR. J. A. PEASE: The reduction in the tobacco duty may have been justified by an increase of the tobacco revenue, which will really make up for any defiassent of the majority of my hearers- ciency in the Exchequer, on account of to prefer tobacco to tea. I was rather the reduction which is going to be given surprised to hear one argument urged to the consumers of tobacco. As this is a this evening in favour of tea matter which can be arranged subscnamely, that tea is so very largely quently, I beg leave to grown in India and Ceylon as com- Amendment. pared with tobacco. No doubt that is the case, but to my mind should endeavour to settle our system of taxation here rather with regard to the necessities and advantages of those who

we

Question proposed

withdraw my

"That the words 'Four Pence' stand part of the Question."

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

have to bear that taxation than to the necessities and advantages of anybody else, and I am specially surprised at the MR. T. G. BOWLES (Lynn Regis): I position of the right honourable Gentleman the Member for West Monmouth in am anxious to speak at this moment very this matter. His view, I understand, is briefly, as is my wont. I am desirous of this that we should adapt our taxation, supporting the Chancellor of the Exche as far as we reasonably can, for the bene- quer in what he has done for tobacco as fit of our Colonies, but that we should against tea, inasmuch as that is the only not allow them to adapt their taxation at all for our benefit. That appears part of his Budget for which I have an extremely contradictory unqualified approval. Tea! Why, tea is policy, which I hope will be explained at the beverage of neurotic women. In the the proper time. But my only object earlier and better days of this Empire in rising now is to make an appeal to tea was an unknown beverage for breakthe honourable Member who has just fast. Beer was taken then; and it was moved this Amendment. The circum- not till a number of ambitious merchants stances are quite different from those of had discovered China, and introduced last year. I can quite understand that tea, that our preference for that article

to me an

1

Main Question put and agreed to.

Resolved

"That the duty of Customs now payable on tea shall continue to be charged, levied, and paid on and after the first day of August, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-eight, until the first day of August, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-nine, on the importation thereof into Great Britain or Ireland; that is to say :-Tea the pound. . Four

pence.'

Resolutions to be reported to-morrow; Committee to sit again on Wednesday.

CUSTOMS OFFICES (SOUTHAMPTON)

(RE-COMMITTED) BILL.

MR. J. HERBERT LEWIS (Flint Boroughs): Perhaps we may have some explanation as to the circumstances under which this Bill has been re-committed.

OF

began. It, of course, enables many duty off tea, have upon this occasion people, when their nerves are unstrung, been badly defeated. and their capacity to fight in the business of life are not what they should be, to through a certain amount of work which they would not otherwise be able to do; but see what a different position tobacco occupies. It is the stimulus of the strong man. "Divine and sublime tobacco, that from East and West, cheers the Tar's labours and the Turkman's rest." I was prepared to find that so manly a financier as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no hesitation in admitting tobacco to a reduction of duty as against tea. We all admire the Chancellor of the Exchequer for his manly qualities. There is nothing neurotic or feminine about him. He is neither a bimetallist in finance, nor a bisexualist in politics. The right honourable Gentleman has told us that he holds a most impartial position in this matter because he does not smoke, but smoking is not the only use to which tobacco is put. There are those who do not smoke, but who chew. I am making no suggestion, but I can assure the right honourable Gentleman, if he does not know it, that in some of the hardest trials to which a seaman is put he finds a quid of tobacco in his cheek of the greatest possible use and comfort to him; and I think that all those who have undergone trials and privation will say unhesitatingly that if the choice were put to them of losing their tea or their tobacco, they would give up the tea most cheerfully. I only regret that the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not see his way to make the reduction on tobacco even greater than it is, because I believe that nothing would have been so calculated to be an encouragement to the manly, independent, useful taxpayer as that reduction. As for tea, the only effect of reducing the duty on tea is to encourage a few old ladies and a few nervous young or middle-aged men. It was for this reason that I was anxious to express my approbation of this portion of the Budget, as there are other portions of it on which I trust the Committee will allow me to make a few remarks not quite so favourable. If the choice of the right honourable Gentleman was between tea and tobacco, I do not in the least condole with those who, wanting the Mr. Gibson Bowles.

*THE FIRST COMMISSIONER WORKS (Mr. AKERS DOUGLAS, Kent, St. Augustine's): The peculiar circumstances of this Bill are that the Government wish to acquire certain lands in Southampton

for the

Customs offices there. The railway com-
purpose of erecting certain
are anxious to sell, and the
pany
Government are anxious to buy, but
sell without the authority of Parliament.
the railway company have no power to
The price is agreed to, and the requisite
money for the purchase of the site has
been voted in Committee of Supply.
I
а
gave full explanation of this
Bill at one of its earlier stages, and also
when the money was voted in the Esti-
mates. Shortly, the object of the Bill
is to acquire a site, which the vendors are
ready to sell, and which the Government
are ready to buy.

Question put, and agreed to—

"That Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."

"The Commissioners may purchase and acof the lands delineated on the deposited plans quire for the purposes of this Act all or any and described in the deposited books of reference."

Question put, and agreed to

"That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill."

relating to that land, shall be extinguished, and all the soil of those ways, and the propety in the pipes, sewers, and drains, shall vest in the Commissioners. (2) Any persons may recover from the Commissioners such compensation (if any) as they may be entitled to under any of the provisions of the Lands Clauses Acts for any rights or property of which they may be deprived in pursuance of this section, and the amount of that compensation shall be determined in manner provided by the Lands Clauses Acts as modified for the purpose of their incorporation with this Act. (3) Nothing in this section shall affect any sewers or drains vested in the Corporation of Southampton."

Question put, and agreed to

"That Clause 5 stand part of the Bill." officers, and workmen may at all reasonable "The Commissioners and their surveyors, time in the daytime, on giving twenty-four hours' notice in writing, enter on any of the

"(1) For the purpose of the purchase and acquisition of land under this Act, the Lands Clauses Acts shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, be incorporated with this Act, with the following exceptions and modifications :(a) The provisions relating to the sale of superfluous land and access to the special Act and Section one hundred and thirty-three of the Lands Clauses Consolidation Act, 1845 (relating to land tax and poor rate) shall not be incorporated with this Act: (b) In the construction of this Act and of the incorporated Acts this Act shall be deemed to be the 'special Act,' and the Commissioners shall be deemed to be the promoters of the undertaking': (c) The bond required by Section eighty-five of the Lands Clauses Consolidation Act, 1845, shall be under the common seal of the Commissioners, and shall be sufficient without the tion: (d) All claims for compensation made upon the Commissioners under this Act, or any Act incorporated herewith, shall, if the person claiming has no greater interest in the land in respect of which compensation is claimed than as tenant from year to year, or as a leaseholder for any term of which not more than eighteen months remain unexpired at the time at which the claim is made, be "The Commissioners may erect all such determined in manner provided by Section one buildings, execute all such works, and do all hundred and twenty-one of the Lands Clauses such other things as may in their opinion be Consolidation Act, 1845. (2.) The powers of necessary or proper for the purpose of providthe Commissioners for the compulsory pur-ing Customs and other offices connected therechase of land under this Act shall cease after with upon the land acquired by them under the expiration of three years from the passing this Act, and appropriating any such land for of this Act." any of those purposes."

addition of the sureties mentioned in that sec

Question put, and agreed to-
“That Clause 3 stand part of the Bill.”
"(1) Any land tax assessed on the first day
of January, One thousand eight hundred and
ninety-eight, on any part of the land acquired
by the Commissioners under this Act, shall, as
from the date of acquisition, be deemed to have
been redeemed at the price, and in accordance
with the conditions provided by the Finance
Act, 1896, and the Land Tax Acts therein
defined, and after the date of acquisition no
sum shall be assessed or charged in respect of
land tax on any part of the land so acquired.
(2) The Commissioners of Inland Revenue shall
grant a certificate of exoneration from assess-
ment to land tax of the lands so acquired, and
that certificate shall be registered by the officer
appointed for the registry of contracts for the
redemption of land tax.

Question put, and agreed to-
"That Clause 4 stand part of the Bill."

"(1) All rights of way, rights of laying down or of continuing any pipes, sewers, or drains on, through, or under any of the land acquired by the Commissioners under this Act, and all other rights and easements in or

land which the Commissioners are authorised

to acquire under this Act for the purpose of surveying or valuing the land."

Question put, and agreed to

"That Clause 6 stand part of the Bill."

Question put, and agreed to

'That Clause 7 stand part of the Bill."

of any buildings, or in raising or lowering the
"(1) Where, in the removal or pulling down
ground of any street or way for the purpose of
this Act, it is necessary to raise, sink, or other-
wise alter the position relatively to the sur-
face of the ground of any pipe, wire, or other
apparatus laid down or used by any gas,
with any house or building for the supply of
water, or electricity company, or connected
notice shall be given to the company pre-
gas, water, or electricity:(a) one month's
viously to the commencement of any such
work;
the reasonable satisfaction of the engineer of
and (b) the work shall be executed to
the company, or, in case of difference, of an
engineer to be selected by the Board of Trade;
and (c) every such work shall be so executed
as to cause as little inconvenience as circum-
stances will admit to the company; and (d)
the Commissioners shall make compensation to
the company for all loss or damage if any,
which may be occasioned by the execution of
any of the works authorised by this Act. (2) For
the purposes of this section the expression
'gas, water, or electricity company' includes
any person or body of persons supplying gas,
water, or electricity."

Question put, and agreed to

"That Clause 8 stand part of the Bill."

Question put and agreed to-
"That Clause 11 stand part of the Bill."

"This Act may be cited as the Customs Offices (Southampton) Act, 1898."

has

“(1) All expenses incurred by the Commissioners under this Act shall be defrayed out of money provided by Parliament. (2) The provisions of the Commissioners of Works Act, MR. LEWIS: Upon these clauses there 1852, and any Act amending that Act, shall is one thing I should wish to ask. There apply in the case of the acquisition of land by the Commissioners under this Act, in like grown u in the House a practice manner, as in the case of a purchase under recently of legislating by reference. that Act, and any notice, summons, writ, or These clauses contain а number of other document required to be given, issued, or references incorporating certain sections signed, by or on behalf of the Commissioners, of the Lands Clauses Consolidation Act of may be given, issued, or signed by the secretary or assistant secretary of the Com- 1845. The question I wish to ask in missioners, and need not be under their common regard to these clauses is one which is seal." applicable to a great many Bills. Woud it not be possible in order that the House may know, when it is dealing with a Bill of this kind, exactly what it is doing to have the Section of the Bills referred to placed as an appendix to the Bill? That, I think, would facilitate progress very considerably, and would enable us to know, when we are passing these sections, what it is we are committing ourselves to.

Question put, and agreed to

"That Clause 9 stand part of the Bill."

"If any person wilfully obstructs any person acting under the authority of the Commissioners in the lawful exercise of the powers vested in them under this Act, he shall for each offence be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding five pounds.'

Question put, and agreed to

'That Clause 10 stand part of the Bill."

"If the Commissioners should at any time hereafter desire to abandon the lands shown on the deposited plans, and described in the deposited books of reference, they shall in the first instance offer the same for sale to the London and South Western Railway Company (hereinafter called the South Western Company; and the following provisions shall thereupon apply(a) If the South-Western Company are desirous of purchasing such lands, then within six weeks after such offer of sale they shall signify in writing their desire in that behalf to the Commissioners. (b) If they decline such offer, or if for six weeks they neglect to signify their desire to purchase such lands, the right of purchase conferred by this Act shall cease, and a declaration in writing be made before a justice of the peace by the secretary to the Commissioners, stating that such offer was made, and was refused, or not accepted for six weeks from the time of making the same, shall be in all courts sufficient evidence of the facts therein stated. (c) If the South Western Company be desirous of purchasing the lands, and the South Western Company and the Commissioners do not agree as to the price thereof, then such price shall be ascertained by arbitration, in accordance with the provisions of the Arbitration Act, 1889, or any statutory re-enactment or modification thereof. (d) Upon any such sale the South Western Company shall not require any proof of the title of the Commissioners to the said lands."

Question put, and agreed to

"That this be the preamble of the Bill."

"Whereas it is expedient to make provision for Customs and other offices connected therewith at Southampton, and to empower the Commissioners of Works (in this Act called the Commissioners) to acquire for that purpose certain lands situated in the county borough of Southampton: And whereas those lands cannot be acquired without the authority of Parliament: And whereas plans of the lands by this Act authorised to be acquired, and also books of reference containing the names of the owners and lessees, or reputed owners and lessees, and of the occupiers of those lands have been deposited with the Clerk of the Peace for the county of Southampton (which plans and books of reference are in this Act respectively referred to as the deposited plans and books of reference): Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assem bled, and by the authority of the same, as

follows: "