L. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, I would ask you the question, how you came to be informed that you had mistaken yourself? Mr. Tur. My lords, I will tell you: I was searching for a letter I received from my lord Stafford, and missing that, I found my discharge I had from the French army, wherein I saw a mistake as to the time, and that I have to produce. L. H. S. I ask you again by the oath you have taken, did you correct it of yourself, or by information from any other? Mr. Tur. By the oath I have taken, I did correct it of myself, and no body moved it to Serj. Mayn. It was but a circumstance of time. Sir F. Win. And corrected by himself the very next morning, my Lords. L. Staff. The thing looks like truth, but there is no proof of it. Mr. Tur. The seal is a little broke, but the name remains perfect. L. Staff. He says there is a dismission from the army in 1676; how will that rectify his mistake about 1673? I understand not that. Then the Court called for the Paper: and it and some other lords. was looked upon by the duke of Monmouth, L. H. S. My lord, this paper hath been looked upon; the hand is well known by those that should know it. L. Staff. I do not say the contrary. L. H.S. Whereabouts are you now, my lord, then? L. Stuff. I am extremely faint and weary, that I am sure of. This gentleman told you yesterday, that he spoke with me several times in France, and that he was conversant with me for a fortnight together; that he visited me, and I proposed the killing of the king to him; and L. Staff. He does acknowledge he did forswear himself once and did make himself an honest man the next day, when he was a perjured villain the day before. And now he tells your lordships, that he was searching for a let-that he refused to give me an answer then, but ter that I sent to him, but he cannot find it. Mr. Tur. No, my Lords, I thought I had it, but I cannot find it. L. Staff. No, I will swear thou cans't not. But then he does say that he had a discharge from the French army. Mr. Tur. Yes, it is here, my lord. L. H. S. Is that the paper of your discharge? Mr. Tur. Yes, it is. It is worn out a little and torn, but the seal is preserved: I did not know that ever I should have occasion to make use of it; but my lord challenging me for a coward, and a deserter of my colours L. Staff. I believe so still, for I have heard so. L. H. S. Your honour is not in question, Mr. Turbervile. Mr. Tur. The title is a little torn; and if your lordships please, I will read it: (which he did, being in French, and is rendered in English in these words: This certifieth all to whom it shall appertain, that I have given an absolute discharge to the Sieur Turbervile, a cavalier of my company, after having served the space of six months with all honour and fidelity. Therefore I desire those that are to be desired, to treat him civilly, and let him pass and repass, and without doing him any injury, or giving him any hindrance; but on the contrary, to afford him all aid and assistance where it shall be necessary, promising the like upon all occasions that shall require it. In confirmation of which, I have for him signed this present discharge, and thereto put the seal of my arms, to serve him in case be shall need it. Made at the camp before Aire this 4th of August, 1676. SHELDON." L. H. S. What is the date of that discharge, Turbervile? Mr. Tur. It is in August 1676. L. H.S. Yes. Deliver it to my lord. (Which was done, and he looked upon it.) told me he would give it me at Diep: This he said yesterday, as I remember. And afterwards, when he was gone down, he came up again, and desired to put your lordships in mind of a particular circumstance which he said he did remember, That when he came to me, I had the gout, and was in a lower room of the house, in such a street, which faced Luxemburgh house, all which I stand not upon; and that the prince of Conde lived in the same street, on the left-hand he said first, after on the right-hand, and after he knew not where, and that I did lodge in the same street. Mr. Tur. I did say, I believed the prince of Conde lived there, but I was not positive. L. Staff. No; but first he swears a thing, and then only believes it. Be pleased to call my servants, to know if ever I had my foot ill of the gout in my life. Mr. Tur. Your lordship told me it was the gout. L. Staff. If ever I put my foot on a stool, or was lame there, I will own all that he says. But when a man swears his evidence, and goes down from the place, and then invents, and comes up again to tell new stories, who shall believe such a man? Mr. Tur. I never went from the bar. L. Staff. I do say, you went down, and had given all your evidence, and came up again, and told this circumstance. I have not been lame, not one moment, these 40 years: and yet this fellow, this impudent fellow, to say, that I was lame, and put my foot upon a stool! He does not, my Lords, swear positively in any thing but this, and this I can easily disprove him in. L. H. S. What say you to this particular, Turbervile? Had my lord Stafford never the gout while he was in France? Mr. Tur. He told me it was the gout, my Lords: He had a great lameness, he could not go from one place to another, Here are several people to give testimony that my lord was lame within less time than he says. Mr. Foley. Hold, hold, Turbervile, you must not give that evidence now. L. Staff. Call Nicholas Furnese again. L. Staff. Ask whether ever he saw Mr. Turbervile with me in France? L. H. S. Were you with my lord Stafford all the while he was in France? Furnese. Yes, my Lords. Tur. The contents of the letter were, That I should not stay at Diep in expectation of lun, for he had appointed a yacht to come to Calais; but I should make what haste I could to London, and there I should nieet with him. L. Staff. I desire to ask, whether I sent bin word that count Gramont came over with me. Tur. Yes, my lords, to the best of my remembrance. L. Staff. I shall now bring witnesses that I L. H. S. Did you never see Turbervile did not come by Calais, but by Diep, and count there? Furn. No. L. H. S. Pray, did you never see Father An- | thony Turbervile there? Furn. No, my Lords, I never heard of his name. L. Staff. Was I ever one moment lame while I was in France? Furn. Not that I remember. L. H. S. How long was my lord there? L. H. S. What time of the year? Furn. At Paris in October and November, in December at Rohan, in January we came over into England. L. Staff. Ask him if ever I put my foot upon a cushion or upon a stool for lameness. L. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, did you ever see Furnese when you were in France? Tur. This man, my Lords? L. H. S. Do you remember any other servant of my lord's that you did see there? Gramont came not with me. L. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, which way came you, from Diep, or from Calais? Tur. From Diep, my Lords. L. Staff. And I came from Diep too L. H. S. My lord came that way too, be says. Tur. I know not of that, he sent me word otherwise. L. Staff. I shall now prove what I say. Pray call Mr. Wyborne. (Who stood up.) L. H. S. What do you ask him, my lord? L. Staff. Whether he did not see me at Diep, and embark from thence for England? Mr. Wyborne. My lords, I will give you an account as well as I can. In 1675, in Decem ber, 1 bad occasion to go over into France upon my own concerns; and enquiring where there was a conveniency to go over, I heard that a yacht was sending to Diep for my lord Stafford, and Mr. Henry Siduey, his majesty's envoy extraordinary now in Holland: I took that occasion, and we weighed anchor on Fri day the 24th of December: and it being foul weather, and we being tossed long upon the ses, we did not come to an anchor before Diep till the Sunday was se'nnight at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, which was January the 2nd. Then Tur. Truly, my Lords, I do not remember, II came with the captain immediately on shore, might forget him. L. Staff. So I believe thou dost me too. Tur. Your lordship that could call me coward, may say any thing. L. Staff. You shall be as valiant as Hector, if you will. Pray call my other boy. (Who stood up.) L. H. S. You little boy, Were you all the while with my lord that he was in France? Leigh. Yes, my lords. L. H. S. Did you ever see Turbervile there? Leigh. No, my lords, not that I know of? L. H. S. That is six years. Leigh. Seven years almost, my lords. L. Staff. Now, my lords, Mr. Turbervile says, I writ him a letter to Diep, which letter he cannot find; I beseech you, what were the contents of the letter? L. H. S. What were the contents of the letter my lord sent you? to enquire for my lord and Mr. Sidney; I enquired for my lord, and they told me he was at Kohan, expecting to hear of the arrival of the yacht: Upon which the captain desired me to write a letter to my lord, and I did so; upon sight of which letter, he came to Diep on Tues day in the afternoon, which was, as I take it, the 4th of January, and we were at the Bastile there then together when he came that evening. And the next day I went on my own occasions to Paris, and my lord and Mr. Sidney did come over together in the yacht. L. Staff. If you please, I will call my two servants again to this matter. L. H. S. Call them, my lord. Then Furnese and Leigh stood up. Which way came my lord Staf ford out of France into England, by Diep Calais ? Furn. By Diep. L. H. S. What say you, boy? Which way came my lord? Leigh. By Diep, my lords. L. H. S. You came with him? L. H. S. My lord, the question is not, whether you came by Calais or no, but whether you writ a letter to him to Diep, that you would go by Calais. L. Staff. He swore yesterday that I did Come by Calais. 1 And further added, That this king should not last long, and that his successor should be wholly for their purpose. And Father Cross, provincial of the friars, told this informant, That bad he been at Doway when this informant made his escape thence, he should never have come to England. And this informant finding himself friendless, and in danger in England, went to Paris, where one of his brothers is a Benedictine monk, who persuaded this informant to return for England; and in yester-order thereunto, about the latter end of No L. H. S. Do you say my lord came by Calais? Tur. My lords, I had a letter from his lordship, which he wrote to me, that he would come by Calais. L. Staff. He did not name the letter day, nor is it in the Information. L. H. S. Read the Affidavit. The INFORMATION of EDWARD TURBERVILE, of Skeer, in the county of Glamorgan, gent. vember, 1675, he was introduced into the acquaintance of the lord Stafford that he might weeks he attended his lordship, and had great go for England with his lordship, and three access and freedom with his lordship, who gave him great assurances of his favour and interest Who saith, That being a younger brother, to restore him to his relations esteem again : about the year 1672, he became gentleman- And said, That he had a piece of service to usher to the lady Mary Molineux, daughter to propose to this informant, that would not only the earl of Powis, and by that means lived in retrieve his reputation with his own relations, the house of the said earl above three years; but also oblige both them and their party to and by serving and assisting at mass there, make him happy as long as he lived. And grew intimate with William Morgan, confessor this informant being desirous to embrace so to the said earl and his family, who was a Je happy an opportunity, was very inquisitive suit, and rector over all the Jesuits in North after the means; but the said lord Stafford beWales, Shropshire, and Staffordshire. And he ing somewhat difficult to repose to great a trust during the three years time often heard the said as he was to communicate to him, exacted all Morgan tell the said earl and his lady, That the obligations and promises of secrecy, which the kingdom was in a high fever, and that no- this informant gave his lordship in the most thing but bloodletting could restore it to health, solemn manner he could invent. Then his and then the Catholic religion would flourish. lordship laboured to make this informant sensiWhereunto the said earl many times replied, It ble of all the advantages that should accrue to was not yet time, but he doubted not but such this informant, and the Catholic cause; and means should be used in due time; or words then told this informant in direct terms, That to that effect. And he heard the lady Powis he might make himself and the nation happy, tell the said Morgan and others, publicly and by taking away the life of the king of England, privately, That when religion should be re- who was an heretic, and consequently a rebel stored in England, which she doubted not but against God Almighty. Of which this informwould be in a very short time, she would per- ant desired his lordship to give him time to suade her husband to give S001. per annum, for consider, and told his lordship that he would a foundation to maintain a nunnery. And this give him his answer at Diep, where his lordship informant was persuaded by the lady Powis, intended to ship for England, and to take this and the said Morgan, to become a friar; the informant with him; but this informant going said lady encouraging this informant thereunto, before to Diep, the lord Stafford went with by saying, That if he would follow his studies, count Gramont by Calais, and sent this informand make himself capable, she questioned not ant orders to go for England, and to attend his but he might shortly be made a bishop by her lordship at London: But this informant did interest in England; because upon restoration not attend his lordship at London, but went of the Catholic religion, there would want peo-into the French service, and so avoided the lord ple fit to make bishops, and to do the business Stafford's further importunities in that affair. of the church. And thereupon she gave this And this informant further saith, That one Reinformant 10l. to carry him to Doway, wheremige, a Frenchwoman, and vehement Papist, this informant entered the monastery, and continued about three weeks, and with much difficulty made his escape thence, and returned for England; for which the said earl and his lady, and all the rest that encouraged him to go to the monastery, became his utter enemies, threatening to take away his life, and to get his brother to disinherit him: Which last is compassed against bim. And Father Cudworth, who was then guardian of the friars at Doway, some days before his escape thence, told this informant, That if he should not persevere with them, he should lose his life and friends: VOL. VII. who married this informant's brother, lived with the lady Powis all the time this informant resided there and some years since, and was the great confident of the said lady; and the said Remige was for the most part taken with her ladyship into Morgan's chamber, when the consults were held there, where he hath often seen Father Gavan, Father Towers, Father Evans, Father Sylliard, Roberts, White, Owens, Barry, and the earl of Castlemaine, and other Priests and Jesuits, meet and shut themselves up in the said Morgan's chamber, sometimes for an hour, sometimes for two hours, thore or 4 Y less; and at the breaking up of the said consults, have broke out into an extacy of joy, saying, They hoped ere long the Catholic religion would be established in England, and that they did not doubt to bring about their design, notwithstanding they had met with one great disappointment, which was the peace struck up with Holland; saying, That if the army at Black-heath had been sent into Holland to assist the French king, when he was with his army near Amsterdam, Holland had certainly been conquered, and then the French king would have been able to assist us with an army to establish religion in England. Which expressions, with many others, importing their confidence to set up the Romish religion, they frequently communicated to this informant. And the said Morgan went several times into Ireland, to London, and several other parts of England, as this informant bath just cause to believe, to give and take measures for carrying on the design: And the said Remige and her husband having first clandestinely sold their estate, and fled into France about May or June last, for fear of discovery; this informant by many circumstances being assured that the said Mrs. Remige was privy to all or most of the transactions of the Plot. And he saith, That about May last was two years, he was present at mass with the lord Powis in Vere-street, when the earl of Castlemaine did say mass in his priestly habit, after the rites and ceremonies of the Church of Rome. Mr. Tur. My Lords, That which I grounded my belief of his going to Calais upon, and so consequently that athidavit, was the letter which I received from my lord; which I have looked for, but cannot find. L. H. S. This affidavit does not say you went from Calais to England, but you went with count Gramont to Calais. Ld. Staff. I conceive, my Lords, this affidavit and his narrative are word for word the same, only that amendment of 1672 for 1673, upon which I observed before he was forsworn once. I cannot tell what to say, if this man çan be believed. And count Gramont came to Diep too. But besides, my Lords, in this affidavit he does not say he believed so by the letter, though now he speaks of one. L. H. S. My lord Stafford, was count Gramont in your lordship's company when you came to Diep? Ld. Staff. No, my Lords, he was in England before me a month; but, my Lords, I cannot deny but I had one recommended to come over with me, that pretended himself to be a French count, but the man was as arrant a rascal as this that swears against me; and that was one that called himself count de Brienne, whom all the world knows to be a cheat. L. H. S. Call your other witnesses, my lord. Ld. Staff. Where is John Minhead? (Whə stood up.) L. H. S. Who do you belong to? Ld. Staff. My Lords, Mr. Turbervile, he says, by the persuasion of my lady Powis went to Doway, and he staid in the monastery three weeks, and not liking that life, he came away (this may be true, I say nothing to it): but that which I take exception at, is this; be says, for this the earl of Powis and his lady, when he came back from Doway, were very angry with him, and so were all his relations, and he stood in fear of his life from them. Surely when Mr. Turbervile knew he was in such danger, he would not have come near them: pray ask this gentleman, whether he was at my lord Powis's, and how he was entertained. L. H. S. Do you know Turbervile? L. H. S. Have you seen him at my lord Powis's? Minh. Yes, my Lords, L. H. S. How was he received there? L. H. S. Was that before or after he came back to England? my Minh. It was after he came from Doway. L. H. S. What religion are you of? Ld. Staff. Pray ask him whether he lay in Minh. Yes, my Lords, he lay with me in my lodgings. Ld. Staff. And yet he says he was afraid of his life. L. H. S. Did my lord know he lay there? Minh. Yes, he must needs, because he came through the room to go to bed. Ld. Staff. May it please your lordships, he says he was threatened that be should have his brother disinherit him, and which afterwards was compassed. Now I shall shew that this is impossible, for he had no inheritance to lose, nor was to have none; for his brother, who elder than be (this man being by a second ven ter), hath children, as I shall make appest by another of his brothers, who is here. And this not being settled upon him, who was by the second venter, could not come to him; but, for want of issue of that brother, must go to the uncle. So he swears he was disinherited af an estate, when he was to have no estate, not could have. Call Mr. John Turbervile: (Who appeared). My Lords, I desire you to ask him, whether he knew that upon his coming back to England he was ill used? J. Tur. I never knew any unkindness from my elder brother to him. L. H. S. Are you his brother? J. Tur. Yes, my lords, by the father, not by the mother. L. H. S. Well, what can you say? J. Tur. I never heard any thing when he returned from Doway, that he was ill received by my lord Powis; but in a few days after my brother and sister came to town, we went to Bloomsbury, and there we met together: And my brother complaining that he was unfortunate, in that he had undertaken what he could not perform in going beyond sea, and now wanted a livelihood; my eldest brother told him, he had done as far as his ability, he could do no more, it was his own choice, and he had no more to say. Ld. Stuff. Had he any money from his relations? was some estate for him to lose, and that emainder might be docked by the tenant in tail. I would ask, was there any recovery suffered to bar that entail? J. Tur. Yes, I think there was one upon my brother's marriage. L. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, were you told you should be disinherited? E. Tur. Yes, my lords. E. Tur. He told me it should not come to me. L. H. S. How should it come to you? E. Tur. I am not so good a lawyer as to tell that, whether it could or no; but I thought by succession. L. Stuff. Then he says he came to serve my lady Mollinenx in 1672; it may be it is so as he says, I do not know it of my own knowledge; but I pray he may answer, whether it was in 1671, or 1672. J. Tur. He made intercession by friends to E. Tur. In January or February, 1671. L. H. S. But they were not angry with him? J. Tur. Here he is, he cannot say they ever gave him an angry word in their days; I am sure I never did. L. H. S. Did you forbid him the house? Ed. Tur. These are people that take not the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, and therefore are not fit to be witnesses. Ld. Stuff. Now your lordships see what a villain be is. Serjeant Maynard. You must give good words, my lord, for none but good words are given you. Ld Staff. I must call them villains, or myself traitor. L. H. S. You say they gave him 77. upon condition they should never see him more. J. Tur. I did not say, my sister said upon condition she would give him 77. he would never trouble us more: It was his declaration. L. Stuff. My lords, for the present I do not remember any thing more-Oh, yes, my lords, he says he was at such a time at my lord Powis's, when my lord Castlemaine was at Powis Castle, which must be either in the year 1672, 1673, or 1674. Now I desire you would ask Mr. Lydcot, whether my lord Castlemaine was there, or could be there in any of those years (Then Lydcot stood up). L. H. S. What do you ask him, my lord? L. Staff. I desire to ask him, whether in the year 1672, 1673, or 1674, which are the years Turbervile says he was at my lord Powis's at Powis-Castle, whether my lord Castlemaine was at Powis-Castle, or could be there at that time. L. H. S. Was my lord Castlemaine there in any of those years? Lydcot. My lords, I can prove he was not, as much as 1 am capable of proving a negative. I was with him in the years, 1672, 1673, and 1674. L. H. S. Where? Ld. Staff. One thing I would ask Mr. Tur- Lydcot. He was in England in 1673; I was bervile more, and that is about this man's with him all the while, and I am sure since I being disinherited: Whether he could, or whe-knew him he was never in Wales, and I was ther he was heir to an estate or not? L. H. S. What say you to it? J. Tur. By all the information of our relations, the estate was made by my grandfather to my father for life, and after my father's life, to my mother; and after my mother's life, to my eldest brother, and the heirs male of his body; and for want of such, afterwards to me, and the heirs male of my body; and in case I had none, then to my father's brother, and his heirs male; and if he had no heirs male, then after that to the right heirs of the grandfather. This was before my time. L. H. S. Well, then, that remainder to the right heirs might come to him; and so there never absent from him since I knew him (which is nine years), not four months in all: I have travelled with him, and been abroad with him. L. H. S. Turbervile, when do you say my lord Castlemaine was at Powis-Castle? Tur. I think it was in the year 1673. L. H. S. By what token do you remember him there? Tur. He was arguing with my lord Powis about religion, and several times he did so : I believe it was in the year 1673. L. H. S. What say you to that? Lyd. I can assure your lordships he was not there then; I was always with him that year : he had many times a design to go there, bus |