We are confronted with a series of conditions that are unsurmountable. We have come to our Government for assistance to aid us in stabilizing our water system, a system through which flows the very life-blood of our existence. We ask it to help us remove the stigma and thus make our securities second to none. Help us to get the system into our own hands instead of being at the mercy and caprices of a government whose laws are fixed from day to day as its exigencies may require and whose only interest in our affairs is dependent upon the amount of money that can be justly or unjustly squeezed out of us. Help us to cast off the bonds of abject slavery that are dragging us to ruin. Lend us its aid that we may become firmly established on American soil with our irrigation system. The farmers of Imperial Valley feel that they are justly entitled to an equal share of the benefits of their Government. The Government has accepted our filings and has given us our deeds to the land by virtue of our having complied with the laws of the land. We have built our homes and schools, and we ask our Government to help us keep them intact.

True it is, some of our lands are owned by nonresidents, a very unhealthy condition for any community I am sure you will admit. They rent these lands to Japs and Hindoos, who undermine our social standards, destroy the efficiency of our schools, and fill our courtrooms. With the stabilization of our water system these lands can and will be subdivided and sold to actual home builders; therefore we will rid ourselves to a great measure of a class of people to whom the United States has seen fit to deny the right of citizenship. With this stabilization brought about, the real American home builder will be able to borrow money cheaply and for a long period of years and thereby own a home of his own, whereas at the present time it is impossible. Under present conditions it is almost impossible to borrow money on farm lands except at an exorbitant rate of interest. I recall to mind a neighbor of mine who was forced to make a loan. After figuring up his commission, appraisement, and inspection charges his rate of interest was 14 per cent.

The effect of our present unsettled condition is far reaching. Many farmers would like to sell part of their holdings to relieve themselves of present labor conditions and other heavy overhead expenses, but are unable to do so on account of land values being so low they can not sell except at a loss. I know of land selling for less than it cost to level and water stock it. In many instances a single crop grown upon the land is worth more than the land would sell for.

With the water system finally and properly adjusted, plenty of which will be assured for all purposes. At present the farmer can only stock his ranch on a basis of the minimum water supply. Or, in other words, he can not keep more live stock than his land will produce feed or pasture for during the period of the occasional summer water shortage, which shortage is due to our inability to divert the water from the Colorado River, though at the time the discharge of the river is often several times the amount of our needs. Crops, such as corn and milo maise, which can be planted in July on land from which barley and wheat has just been harvested, are often a complete failure, due to the lack of water. The all-American canal, the

building of which the passage of this bill will make possible, will provide all water needed and at a time when it is most needed.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I wish to state that the bill now before your committee, is looked upon by the farmers of Imperial Valley as one which when enacted into law and its provisions carried out will completely and satisfactorily solve the water difficulties. If enacted into a law a new era is in store for Imperial Valley. It will not only make it possible for the 60,000 people who populate this great American Nile Valley to remain, but will provide whereby many more thousands and tens of thousands may come to found good American homes. In case aid is not extended, then this wonderful country must revert back to the desert as known before the days of Barbara Worth. Sixty thousand souls will have lost their all and with broken spirits and shattered hopes will be compelled to seek a new abode.

Mr. SINNOTT. What is the average size of the holdings in your district?

Mr. LIEBERT. We have figures in No. 1, which is the largest water company, of 76 acres. That gives some indication of how it will go, because it is the oldest irrigating company in the district.

Mr. TAYLOR. If there is any member of this committee that hasn't read the book The Winning of Barbara Worth, he ought to read it, because it is a most fascinating novel and pictures in beautiful way the early history of this valley.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. There is one question I would like to ask Mr. Rose and Judge Swing, and that is with reference to the length of time of these bonds that you propose to issue. It seems to me if you put them out over a period of 40 years, it will be more difficult to get this through than if you would make them not exceeding 20 years. I think we should have something definite with reference to the plans of the district on that proposition.

Mr. SWING. I think that is a matter that might well be left with the Secretary of the Interior. Our people will adjust themselves to whatever regulations and requirements he makes in that matter.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. The Secretary of the Interior is not so much concerned about that, I believe, as the Secretary of the Treasury, who is objecting to the bill.

Mr. SWING. That is a considerable sum of money, and it can be paid most successfully by making it cover a considerable period of time. I think it would be a good thing to have payments begin at a very early date.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. Now, would the terms of the 20-year law on Government reclamation projects appeal to you?

Mr. SWING. On those there is no interest. The initial installments there are no more than the equal of the interest on this.

Mr. BARBOUR. Could you not, Mr. Swing, after 20 years have enough of that paid off so that the district itself could then issue another series of bonds and refund these Government bonds?

Mr. HUDSPETH. It seems to me that at the rate you are going-I understand that you marketed $37,000,000 worth of produce here last year, and at the rate you are going you will pay this out before 20 years, it occurs to me-in two or three years.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. At any rate, you could refund the bonds in 20 years.

Mr. SWING. I think that is so.

Mr. ROSE. I would like to say just this much; that, of course, there is this to be said, on some of that land you are going in to reclaim practically 500,000 acres which is now a desert, and it will be possibly 4 years from the time we start before that particular land will receive water; and, of course, that land-the bonds on that land. ought not to commence to mature until probably 10 years and then run over the period of 15 years. To make it 10 and 25 would be very acceptable, I think.

The CHAIRMAN. What other witnesses now are to be heard? Does this close the case of the Imperial Valley delegation?

Mr. SWING. Yes; that closes our case, Judge Kinkaid, except what will be filed without being read.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, there are two witnesses here from Yuma? Mr. HAYDEN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long will that take?

Mr. HAYDEN. I do not believe that their statements will take very long. I would first like to have you hear Hon. Mulford Winsor, State senator from Yuma County, Ariz., who has been intimately connected with the Yuma reclamation project for more than 20 years.

STATEMENT OF MR. MULFORD WINSOR, OF YUMA, ARIZ.

Mr. WINSOR. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I had hoped to be able to conceal the fact that I was a State senator, but I will have to plead guilty since Representative Hayden has made the charge.

Mr. TAYLOR. Some of us who have been State senators for a long time will sympathize with you.

Mr. WINSOR. I would never recognize it. You all look like intelligent gentlemen. My home is at Yuma, Ariz., and, as Mr. Hayden has said, I have been connected as a farmer and as a member at different times of the board of governors of the Yuma County Water Users' Association for 24 years. I was one of the pioneer settlers in that locality and have assisted in some way or other in various projects for the reclamation of the lands in the Yuma Valley.

Col. Fly and myself are representing the Yuma County Water Users' Association here because we thought that this was a matter that directly affected the Yuma project and because it bears a relation to the contract which was entered into a year ago last April between the Imperial irrigation district and the Secretary of the Interior, at which discussion we were here representing our people.

I want to say that we are very much in favor of the enactment of this measure with such amendments as will be found proper, not only because we are interested in the reclamation of the arid land, a subject that has been close to us for practically all of our lives, but because this plan does present a solution of a very great problem that exists between the two projects on the opposite sides of the Colorado River. That problem, I think, should be perhaps more clearly set out than it has been at this hearing, and at any rate should be emphasized.

As has been stated, it has been found necessary by the Imperial irrigation district, in order to maintain its water supply during seasons of low water, to construct a weir dam immediately below what

is known as the Hanlon Heading, where the water is diverted into the Imperial Canal. That dam being close to the head of our project constitutes a very, very grave menace indeed to all of our lands. You will understand that the only salvation that we have from the sudden rise of the Colorado River lies in the washing out of the bed. of the river and lowering it sufficiently to carry the floods that come down very suddenly, and when the Colorado River and the Gila River, which enters the Colorado at Yuma, both rise at the same time, it makes a river which is a very great menace to us and which we have been protected against by the construction of levees, but with the construction of levees we still would be in grave danger if there is no means of the river dredging itself out quickly and thoroughly and to a very great depth.

Now, the weir dam that has been constructed several times-a great many times--in the river opposite our project is built of rock. That has been constructed year after year, time after time, until there has come to be almost a solid, permanent dam. We very seriously doubt whether it is practical to ever entirely remove it or not, and even if it is practical to entirely remove it, it will not be if the additions to it were permitted very many times longer.

We objected to the construction of these dams from the standpoint of self-preservation from their inception, but were really not con sulted in the matter, and the dams were constructed without taking our protests into serious consideration, until we felt it necessary to take the bull by the horns and secure a temporary injunction restraining the Imperial irrigation district from constructing these dams, and since we did that the Imperial irrigation district has been consulting with us in the matter of the construction of the dams, and we have year by year, as a matter of friendship and as a matter of neighborliness and latterly as a matter of the necessities of the Nation, consented to the construction of that dam under certain conditions, providing for its removal.

Now, it is a matter of self-preservation with us, gentlemen. It is just like if a man had a gun on you and you were in grave danger of losing your life, you would not hesitate to take his life. We have felt very much that way about it. If that dam is permitted to stay in there, it is a question of our life, and that is not an extravagant statemen, for it is borne out by every engineer, I believe, except the engineers of the Imperial irrigation district, and we don't feel that there is any doubt but what the menace is a very serious one and one that can not be exaggerated.

If the Imperial irrigation district can find a means of constructing a canal and taking their water out of the river at Laguna Dam, which is the only available point, it will remove the necessity for that weir dam, and will in that way solve the problem that I speak of. Outside of that particular proposition, the Yuma County Water Users' Association has no desire at all with respect to the Imperial irrigation district taking its water at Laguna Dam. We would very much rather they would not do it. There are objections that will accrue to our project in the event of their taking the water at Laguna Dam, but we do not consider them as great as the objection of constantly fighting over the matter of the weir. That is why we feel very much interested in this project, in this bill under proper terms and condi

tions. I think there are two or three amendments that should be made-not from the standpoint of governmental policy, because I don't feel that we are here for the purpose of discussing that, but from the standpoint of the rights and interests of the water users under the Yuma project.

The first of those amendments relates to the recognition in the bill of the contract which was entered into between the Secretary of the Interior and the Imperial irrigation district, and which I understand has been recommended by the Secretary of the Interior. That was the contract that was entered into after thorough discussion, was agreed upon by all parties, and as it is very vital to the protection of our rights and interests we think it should be formally recognized in this bill to remove any uncertainty or any uneasiness.

Mr. TAYLOR. Has that contract been put into the record?
Mr. SWING. Yes.

Mr. WINSOR. We think also that there should be definite provision. for water storage on the upper reaches of the Colorado River. We feel that we have a direct interest in that in this way: Despite the fact that our rights to the waters of the Colorado River, as between the Yuma project and the Imperial irrigation district, are set forth in the contract to which I have alluded, and the amount of water to which we are entitled is easily determinable. Nevertheless, my observation has been through all of the years that I have been in the arid West that no number of contracts and no number of agreements, no number of understandings take the place of plenty of water. When the time comes that there is a shortage of water there inevitably arises a contest, contracts or agreements to the contrary notwithstanding. We feel, although it is not entirely in accord with the views of some of those who have testified-we don't believe there is any more water than enough for the amount of land that is now under cultivation at the low stages of the river.

Mr. HUDSPETH. You mean without a reservoir?

Mr. WINSOR. Without water storage on the Colorado River. To remove any question of controversy between the two sides of the river and to remove any danger of injustice to those who buy lands and buy water under the two projects, we believe that it is vitally important that there should be a provision made for water storage. I believe also, as has been suggested by-I forget which of the members of the committee, but I remember hearing it suggested-it has been suggested that the Secretary of the Interior should be, authorized to fix the area which may be safely watered by the water of the river without storage.

I believe that that is vital, and I want to emphasize the fact that great danger, in my opinion, will exist in the plan which has been suggested of permitting the growing of crops during a part of the year. I have seen that tried, and I have never yet seen it fail of contests and quarrels, and many times in worse than quarrels-in fights. You once put a man on land, even if he has no assurance of water the entire year, and when he sees his neighbors making great profits by growing certain crops the temptation is inevitable for him profits by growing certain crops the temptation is inevitable for him very much abused if he doesn't get the water with which to do it,

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