Fifty thousand acres of land in the eastern end of the 50-kilometer strip near the Cudahy ranch, which is the condemned area for Americans, are being developed for the second rank packing company of the Big Five. A third tract of thousands of acres between Mexicali and Volcano Lake is also being prepared for irrigation, according to Americans who were in that district a fortnight ago. Leveling crews are at work on approximately 17,000 acres 15 miles west of Mexicali near the border. More than 50,000 acres were placed under cultivation in Baja California during 1919, and the effort now to reclaim 350,000 acres, it is stated on authority, is for the double purpose of making available more land for Japanese colonization and to strengthen Mexico's claims against the Kettner measure. Mr. HAYDEN. You have finished your explanation of the first section? Mr. KIBBEY. Yes. Mr. HAYDEN. To summarize, the first section carries three proposals: First, to construct the all-American canal; second, to construct such other works as are necessary to irrigate the additional lands; and, third, to construct such reservoirs as are necessary. The section concludes by saying that the Secretary of the Interior shall enter into contracts so that the total cost of all such works shall be returned to the United States. I shall read the second section, and then let Mr. Kibbey discuss it: SEC. 2. That in carrying out the provisions of this act the Secretary of the Interior shall find and determine the just and equitable proportion or amount of the cost of any such canals, reservoirs, and works to be borne by or made a charge against any such irrigation district, State land-settlement board, soldiersettlement board, water-users' association, and other legal organizations, with due regard to the actual and comparative benefits to be derived by each thereof from the construction of such canals, reservoirs, or works, and no irrigation district, water-users' association, or other organization shall receive any of the benefits of this act nor secure the delivery of any water from the said canals, reservoirs, or works without first accepting the finding of the Secretary of the Interior, as herein provided, and paying, or entering into an agreement satisfactory to the said Secretary to pay, all costs assessed by the said Secretary, and otherwise fully complying with the provisions of this act. Mr. WELLING. What do you mean by "State land-settlement boards"? Mr. HAYDEN. The State of California has provided by law for a State land-settlement board, and funds are provided for placing settlers upon lands, building them houses, and furnishing them with live stock and implements, etc. It is to take advantage of that situation in California, and similar legislation in Arizona, where we have likewise authorized the establishment of a soldier-settlement board, whereby the State may aid the settlers. Dr. Elwood Mead, of California, who is in charge of that work, is here and will be very glad to explain the details of the California plan to the committee. Mr. KIBBEY. Now, section 2, gentlemen, is the only obligation imposed by the bill upon the Secretary to do anything at once, prior to the issuance of the bonds. That is the section under which an appropriation would ordinarily be required at this time, and in connection with that I have stated our offer this morning in behalf of the irrigation district, to put up the money necessary for making that determination. That determination must be made before any work is done, and before the Secretary commences any work it will be logical and proper to require the deposit of the security of the districts already formed. 185833-2028 Mr. BARBOUR. How do you propose to get that money which the district is going to put up? Mr. KIBBEY. I propose to take it out of the treasury of the district, as part of the expense of the engineering, and enter into a contract with the Secretary of the Interior that when we do put it up, that it will be credited to our portion of the cost. Mr. BARBOUR. Have you now that money in the treasury of the district? Mr. KIBBEY. We have very much more than enough to cover that. Mr. BARBOUR. How much do you contemplate will be required? Mr. KIBBEY. In talking to Mr. Davis the other day, he estimated $30,000 or $35,000. Mr. WELLING. Hasn't a vast amount of this engineering work already been done, Mr. Kibbey? Mr. KIBBEY. A great deal of it has been done; yes. Mr. HAYDEN. As I understand the purpose of this section, there must be some authority, and the Secretary of the Interior is the proper authority, to say what lands shall be included in the area to be irrigated. He must ascertain that in view of the existing water supply, so that people will not be promised water who will not get it. Having determined the total area that may be irrigated, the Secretary will then apportion the costs to the various units into which the total area is divided, based upon the benefits conferred. That is a thing that is perfectly feasible for the Secretary to do, and it is the only way that the project can be unified. Then the section winds up by saying that no irrigation district or anybody else can obtain any of the benefits of this act unless they accept the finding of the Secretary. That clinches the matter and places the obligation where, in the judgment of the Secretary of the Interior, it belongs, and makes everybody agree to pay for their share of the work. Mr. BARBOUR. Right there, Mr. Hayden, it is not clear in my mind just the steps that are going to be taken, and just the order in which those steps are going to be taken. First there is going to be some money put up by the irrigation district. Mr. KIBBEY. For the purpose of enabling the Secretary to determine what proportion the various lands will have to pay. Mr. BARBOUR. I see; then following that? Mr. KIBBEY. He will call for the issuance of bonds. Mr. BARBOUR. By these various districts? Mr. KIBBEY. By the district which are already formed. Mr. BARBOUR. Following that, Mr. Kibbey, will you go right along and enumerate the steps that are going to be taken to complete this program? The CHAIRMAN. He means that as a basis where to determine the amount the various districts will vote in bonds. Mr. KIBBEY. Yes, sir. Mr. BARBOUR. I would like to have a statement, all in one place, Mr. Hayden, just the steps that are going to be taken in carrying out this program. Mr. TAYLOR. Give us a detailed chronological statement of just what they are going to or expecting to do. Mr. KIBBEY. The first step will be the ascertainment of the proportion which the present organized districts and the new lands shall pay of the cost. In order to pay the expense of that determination the Imperial irrigation district will enter into a contract with the Secretary of the Interior, agreeing to advance that money. Following that determination, the Secretary of the Interior will then call upon the organized districts to issue their bonds in the proportion which he has estimated. Then those bonds will be sold. Then the real work commences. It will cost, according to the estimate of the board of engineers, $21,000,000 and a few hundred thousand to construct the all-American canal to the point where the lands known as the east side mesa lands can be irrigated. The Secretary may then, under this bill, determine that water is available for the reclamation of those lands. The Imperial irrigation district and the Coachella Valley County water district would put up, according to the estimate, according to the acreage contained in them, together 75 per cent of the cost, which will raise, according to the estimates made by the districts, an amount in excess of the amount necessary to build the canal to the east side mesa. The east side mesa district would then be organized and issue and sell its bonds, and the west side mesa district would be organized at that time. You understand, those lands are not in a condition to be organized into a district right now. However, by the time the east side mesa district is organized and they issue bonds, they will raise from their bonds sufficient to complete the entire works. There may be a space, possibly a short period of time, in which there would be no funds, because of the length of time that it will take to issue bonds after a district is formed. That is a possibility, however, and only a possibility. The figures show that if the Secretary declares water available at the first opportunity, that that space of time need not occur; but if it does occur, the appropriation—and an appropriation would be required in that event, which would be three or four or five years from now-the appropriation would be very small and could be repaid instantly upon the issuance of bonds and the sale at par. I think that is the logical sequence. Mr. BARBOUR. That is what I wanted to get. Mr. HAYDEN. The third section reads: SEC. 3. That at such times as the Secretary of the Interior shall direct, in order to obtain the benefits of this act, each irrigation district, or other legal organization containing lands to be reclaimed under the provisions of this act, now organized or hereafter to be organized, shall issue bonds in due form as provided by State law, running for a period not exceeding 40 years and bearing interest at a rate to be fixed by the Secretary of the Interior, not exceeding 5 per cent per annum, for such sum as will cover the equitable proportion or amount estimated by the Secretary of the Interior as properly chargeable to such irrigation district or other organization for the construction of such canals, reservoirs, or other works, or of any part thereof, and such district or other legal organizations shall be bound to issue such additional bonds as, in the opinion of the Secretary of the Interior, shall be found necessary to cover all expenditures on account of the land in such districts. When the legality and validity of such bonds shall have been duly confirmed by the courts and their sufficiency for the purpose for which issued, taking into consideration the security which will exist upon the completion of said canals and works, shall have been ascertained by the Secretary of the Interior, he is authorized and empowered to accept such bonds and shall collect the principal and interest thereof and apply the same to the payment of the principal and interest when due to the United States for the cost of the irrigation works constructed under authority of this act. Mr. KIBBEY. That is one of the sections that I have been talking somewhat about. It is the section which provides for the repayment of any moneys which the Government may be required to expend, and provides for their security by the issuance of bonds. Now, there are the districts organized as we know. All of the lands to be benefited which are not included in a district are to be organized into an irrigation district, and in that way those who acquire lands from the Government will have to repay the cost by means of their irrigation district bonds. Now, in California we have a law which provides for the confirmation of bonds issued by irrigation districts. Before their sale we may go into court and test their validity, and for that reason I think that California irrigation district bonds are more salable than those of any State not having such a provision. Mr. SINNOTT. We have that provision in Oregon, but a conclusive test may be made at any time. Mr. KIBBEY. Our courts have determined that it is an action in rem. That is provided for, and those who fail to come in and contest after the notice required are forever barred. Mr. HUDSPETH. Do you have the same provision, Mr. Kibbey, in your State that we have in my State, that the attorney general must pass upon the legality of those bonds as to form, and so forth? Mr. KIBBEY. No; it goes directly to the court. Mr. HUDSPETH. They are not passed upon by any State officer before they are offered for sale? Mr. KIBBEY. No, sir; that is determined in the court proceedings themselves, and that is binding and conclusive. The CHAIRMAN. It is done by the department of justice or the auditor in Nebraska; it used to be the auditor. Mr. HUDSPETH. Before the bonds can be issued in my State they have to be passed upon by the attorney general of the State and O. K.'d by him. The CHAIRMAN. That is a very wise provision. Mr. TAYLOR. It is a good provision, but still that doesn't make it a judicial determination. Mr. HUDSPETH. No; it is not a judicial determination. The CHAIRMAN. That gives them their day in court. Mr. HUDSPETH. They, furthermore, have to have the permission of the State bond commission to issue the bonds in your State, Mr. Kibbey? Mr. KIBBEY. Yes, sir. Mr. SINNOTT. Do the State laws limit their bond issue to a cer tain valuation of the property? Mr. KIBBEY. No; not in the irrigation districts. Mr. HUDSPETH. It does in my State. Mr. SINNOTT. And it does with us. Mr. KIBBEY. That is left with the corporation commission. Mr. HUDSPETH. They can only issue up to 50 per cent of the value in our State. Mr. KIBBEY. I have a memorandum of those authorities here. Mr. KIBBEY. I have it and I will say that that is the law in California. The CHAIRMAN. We must hear Dr. Mead before we adjourn this morning, and I suppose he will take all the way from half an hour to three-quarters of an hour, or maybe an hour. That is owing to how many questions we ask. Mr. HAYDEN. Dr. Mead said that he would prefer to have an explanation made of the bill to the committee so that they could understand what it meant. Mr. MEAD. I might say, gentlemen, that I am here at the request of the State authorities, who are greatly concerned in the situation in this district. I have left my duties there and I must be back by the 6th. I can not be with you any longer than to-morrow. Now, whatever I can do to aid you I will be very glad to do. The CHAIRMAN. I would rather not have a meeting to-morrow. Mr. TAYLOR. IS Mr. Kibbey going to stay here? Mr. KIBBEY. I will stay here just as long as is necessary. Mr. MEAD. If you are not going to meet to-morrow, then this will be the last chance that I will have to appear. Mr. HAYDEN. If that is the case, Mr. Kibbey will be at our service later. I did not understand that Dr. Mead's time was so limited. Mr. KIBBEY. Just one thing, if I may suggest it. Dr. Mead asked me to make a statement before he does upon the general situation. Mr. BARBOUR. Mr. Chairman, why wouldn't it be possible to hear Dr. Mead this afternoon? The CHAIRMAN. We don't know when we will be called over to the House on a point of no quorum. point of no quorum. Proceed with your general statement, Mr. Kibbey. Mr. SINNOTT. Mr. Kibbey, on this section 3, what is the cost to be incurred by the United States? I was not clear that the United States was to put up any money. Mr. KIBBEY. There is only a possibility that it may. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sinnott, Dr. Mead has got to go, and I think we had better hear him now. Mr. THOMPSON. I would like to make a suggestion here just a moment. I am the only member of this committee that is from east of the Mississippi River, and I have been sitting with this committee for some time. I am not very well versed in these questions of irrigation, but I have been becoming educated, but here you have able men on both sides of the table that understand this question. This bill has now been up since the first session; we are not getting anywhere with it, and these men are from the far distant parts of the Republic, and why wouldn't it be a good idea to get permission to sit during the sessions of the House and get this out of the way and report the bill and get some action on it and let the House wrestle with it; then if it goes to the Senate, if it is necessary let the conference committee wrestle with it, but let us do something. The time is going and we are doing nothing, and if we are going to do anything for these people I think we ought to do it. Mr. SMITH of Idaho. I think you are laboring under a misapprehension. The bill prepared by the subcommittee is now being considered, is a new bill. Mr. THOMPSON. Several bills have been prepared since last June, but we don't get anywhere. |