Mr. KIBBEY. When the water becomes available-we don't intend to form those new districts until such time as the Secretary of the Interior has said that water is available for those districts. Up until that time we can carry on the work by the sale of bonds of the districts which are already organized.

Mr. HAYDEN. Section 9 provides:

SEC. 9. That all unentered public lands in California susceptible of irrigation hereunder lying south of the third standard parallel and east of the Imperial irrigation district shall be set apart and reserved until water is available for said lands, and all persons who served in the military or naval forces of the United States during any period in which the United States was engaged in war and who have been honorably separated or discharged therefrom or placed in the Regular Army or Naval Reserve shall have the exclusive right of purchase thereof in tracts not to exceed 160 acres to any purchaser at the rate of $1.25 per acre, for a period of six months after said lands shall be opened to purchase: Provided, That any of said lands may be set aside for use under any soldier-settlement plan which may hereafter be authorized by act of Congress: And provided further, That the State of California shall have the option for a period of 12 months after the passage of this act to acquire not to exceed 50,000 acres thereof by exchange of State lands of equal area and value, or by purchase at $1.25 per acre for settlement under provisions of the California State land settlement act. All of said lands purchased by persons having served in the military or naval forces, as aforesaid, shall be included in one or more of the irrigation districts to be organized under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior and subject to assessment for payment of the bonds to be issued by said districts in payment for their proportionate part of the costs and charges hereunder: Provided, however, That in the event the State of California shall exercise the option herein granted, then the Secretary of the Interior and the proper authorities of the State of California shall enter into an agreeement whereby not more thant 160 acres of such lands shall be sold to any one purchaser, and whereby persons having served in the military or naval forces, as aforesaid, shall have a preferential right of purchase, and whereby such lands shall be pledged for the payment of the proportion of the costs and charges to which such lands may be subject. and payment thereof shall be made in the manner determined by the Secretary of the Interior.

66

An amendment suggested by the department is to strike out the words "purchase thereof" in line 4, page 8, and insert the words entry under the homestead laws"; and then strike out the words "purchaser at the rate" in line 5, and insert the words "person upon payment," so that it will read that any soldier or sailor" shall have the exclusive right of entry under the homestead laws in tracts not to exceed 160 acres to any person upon payment of $1.25 per acre for a period of six months after said land shall be opened to purchase."

Mr. HUDSPETH. The provision providing for the exchange of State lands is also cut out in my bill.

Mr. HAYDEN. The recommendation was made that it be cut out, but subsequently the Secretary of the Interior said that he thought if he had authority to exchange for forest lands, as suggested by Dr. Mead, it might be well to leave it in. The Secretary was under the impression that it was proposed to exchange certain desert lands belonging to the State of California for the east mesa lands, but if forest lands could be exchanged, it would be best not to amend the bill by striking out the words "by exchange of State lands of equal area and value, or," in line 13:

The Secretary also suggests a proviso at the end of section 9:

Provided, That the State shall forfeit the right to any lands not improved and made ready for settlement within such time after water is ready for delivery, as may be agreed upon in contract between the State and the Secretary, at the time the State exercises the option provided for in this section.

Mr. BARBOUR. What do you think of the acreage, Mr. Kibbey160 acres for each soldier?

Mr. KIBBEY. It says "not to exceed."

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kibbey, I wish you would just point out those lands on the map.

Mr. KIBBEY. They are the lands colored in blue, south of the third' standard parallel [indicating]. I think that is the third standard parallel there-green, I should say. It is the land between there and the red line at the boundary.

The CHAIRMAN. All that mesa?

Mr. KIBBEY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, that is the east mesa?

Mr. KIBBEY. That is what we call the east mesa. Possibly the mesa goes up a little bit farther, but it is the east mesa south of the third standard parallel.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. This is applicable to any soldier of any war; not exclusively to the soldiers of the late war.

Mr. BARBOUR. Dr. Mead said the other day that 40 acres is ample, and he suggested indirectly, if not directly, that a limit of 40 acres be placed upon these allotments. If that is true, and that amount is ample, there would be a lot more land there for soldiers.

Mr. KIBBEY. Exactly.

Mr. BARBOUR. And I think it would have a tendency to prevent speculation.

Mr. KIBBEY. I have no objection; in fact, I have always been a believer in the public lands being disposed of to men who want to make homes upon them.

Mr. TAYLOR. Mr. Kibbey, ought we not to reduce that maximum to at least 80 acres? If this is to be $400 or $500 land, it has got to be leveled and a lot of work has got to be done on it, and 40 acres is as much as any man can possibly tend, and hadn't we better pass this around a little more?

Mr. KIBBEY. I am perfectly agreeable to it, and am assured that the Secretary of the Interior would do that anyway.

Mr. TAYLOR. I think we ought to reduce it at least from 160 to 80 if not to 40 acres.

Mr. BARBOUR. If we are going to legislate for the soldiers, the more we can benefit, the more good will be accomplished by this legislation.

Mr. TAYLOR. And if the land is any good 40 acres is enough; and if it isn't any good, they are not going to take it.

The CHAIRMAN. There will not be any more land this way, but there will be land for more soldiers, and if there is any place where 40 acres is adequate on a reclamation-project, it seems to me the Imperial Valley is the place. I don't know of any place where they could expect to make a living for a family on as small an area as that, except possibly on some fruit lands.

Mr. HAYDEN. Perhaps it would be well for you to give the committee the history of this section; how it became part of the bill.

Mr. KIBBEY. I started in on that the other day. As I say, the former committee, when they came back from Washington, told us that an amendment of this kind would kill the bill. We did not believe that-that is, some of us did not; the Legion did not believe it at any rate.

Evidently the majority of the people of our district did believe it. We started the fight through our local Legion. We did not get very far with it and we called upon Dr. Mead. We asked for his assistance, knowing that he and the State Land Settlement Board were taking up the soldiers settlement proposition. In response to our petition to him he suggested a meeting of all interested parties at Berkeley for October 1, I think was the day set. That invitation was made general to all interested organizations, corporations, and associations in the Imperial Valley, to attend and send representatives. We had quite a time getting the irrigation district board and the board of supervisors to agree to attend, because of the vital need for aid in the valley and the impression they had that the soldier amendment would kill the bill, but as the result of our efforts we did get the irrigation district directors to attend in a body. We got the board of supervisors to attend in a body; we got the farm bureau to attend in a body. The other day I said that the Laguna Water Co. was represented there; I had been informed that there were stockholders in the Laguna Water Co. present.

I am not familiar with the names of them, but Mr. Rose tells me they were not present, so I wish to withdraw that statement that the Laguna Water Co. was represented. I have a list of all who attended that conference, which I think with the exception of the Laguna Water Co. included every organization in the Imperial Valley, the associated chambers of commerce, the chambers of commerce of every city in Imperial; the mutual water companies, the board of directors of the irrigation district, the board of supervisors, and all organizations of which I have any knowledge.

Mr. WELLING. Was Judge Swing at that meeting?

Mr. KIBBEY. Judge Swing was at that meeting; and I will say that Judge Swing was opposed to the amendments there upon the grounds that Congress would defeat the bill if the soldier amendments were included. I served upon the committee that was appointed there with him, and he gave those reasons to me as well as to the public.

The result of that meeting was the adoption of resolutions requesting the amendment as incorporated in this section, which are on file with your committee and are already printed in the report of the hearings on H. R. 6044. They were finally agreed to unanimously-I will say that Judge Swing announced he was going to attend a meeting which Senator Johnson was to address and would not be present at the evening session.

Mr. WELLING. When you say "these amendments" do you mean the matter contained in section 9?

Mr. KIBBEY. Yes; I will read just exactly that resolution.

Mr. WELLING. I don't care to have it. Just what you say is suffi

cient.

Mr. KIBBEY. They recommended that the lands on the east side. Mesa be reserved in the first place for soldier settlement at that time they were considering the Lane bill in Congress-that if the Lane bill passed or any legislation by Congress should pass, that these lands, being the most valuable in California in public ownership, should be reserved so that they would come under the operation of that bill; if that bill did not go through, that they be opened to

soldier settlement; that the $10 per acre be not charged as against these lands. I think that is the substance of the resolution.

As the result of that meeting, which I say was unanimous, Judge Swing had left to attend the Johnson meeting so that at the evening session the vote was absolutely unanimous by all the representatives; and in that connection I will state that the State officials who were present did not vote. They announced that they would take no vote, so it was left entirely to the people of Imperial Valley. Mr. BARBOUR. Who were those State officials?

Mr. KIBBEY. Mr. Kingsbury.

Mr. BARBOUR. The State engineer?

Mr. KIBBEY. The State engineer; yes. I have the full list right here, and before I leave I will file that list, which included practically every State department.

The list referred to follows:

REGISTER-CONFERENCE, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, CALIF., OCT. 1, 1919.

Phil D. Swing, El Centro, Imperial irrigation district.

C. E. Grunsky, San Francisco, consulting engineer, Imperial irrigation district.

Charles H. Lee, Berkeley, California State water commission.

J. Stanley Brown, El Centro, Imperial irrigation district.

W. H. Brooks, El Centro, chairman board of supervisors.

W. O. Johnson, El Centro, Imperial County farm adviser.

Jacob Lorang, Imperial, United Spanish War Veterans, Imperial County farm bureau.

P. L. Hedrick, Brawley, American Legion, Camp 60, Brawley, Calif.

Thomas O'Brien, Brawley, Imperial Land Owners' Association.

J. Roy Adams, Imperial, supervisor third district.

F. L. Lathrop, Sacramento, farm expert.

Arthur M. Nelson, El Centro, El Centro Post, American Legion.

J. F. Hallawell, Imperial, Imperial Post, American Legion.

W. A. Beard, Sacramento, Sacramento Valley Development Association.
A. T. Vaughn Seeley, director, Water Co. No. 12.

J. D. Mughmer, Seeley, Imperial Water Co. No. 12.
W. A. Edgar, Imperial, Imperial Water Co. No. 12.
M. W. Conkling, El Centro, Imperial Water Co. No. 6.
Mike Liebert, Seeley, Imperial County farm bureau.

C. F. Boarts, Brawley, farm bureau and Westmoreland Chamber of Com

merce.

H. C. Brandt, Los Angeles, Westside Imperial Irrigation All-American Canal Association of Los Angeles.

Chester A. Sparey, Indio, Coschella Valley County water district.

S. E. Robinson, Imperial, All-American Canal Association.

B. H. Crocheron, Berkeley, University of California.

J. F. Seymour, El Centro, El Centro Chamber of Commerce, All-American Canal Association.

John W. Gilmore, Berkeley, professor of agronomy.

R. H. Long.

Walter W. Weir, Berkeley, drainage engineer, University of California.

W. W. Mackie, Berkeley, agronomy, University of California.

R. H. Norboe, Sacramento, State department of engineering.

G. W. Shaw, Berkeley, chief appraiser Federal land bank.

C. S. Drake, Oakland.

R. G. Green, Oakland.

Maj. Pinder, State of California, American Legion.

Charles H. Keadrick, State of California, American Legion.

E. E. Kirk, Los Angeles, American Legion.

W. W. Schlect, Yuma, Ariz., Department of Interior, United States Reclamation Service.

J. S. Nickerson, Brawley, director, Imperial irrigation district.

C. D. Manning, Holtville, director, Imperial irrigation district.

Frank D. Hevener, Calexico, chamber of commerce.

T. A. Johnson, Calipatria, Business Men's Association, Imperial No. 3, Imperial Water Co., No. 9.

Frank Wilkins, Imperial, chamber of commerce.

W. H. Best, Brawley, Water Co. No. 4, Water Co. No. 3.

W. R. Farmer, Holtville, farm bureau director.

R. W. Sears, El Centro, farm bureau director.

B. M. Gruwell, farm bureau director.

D. F. Harbison, Seeley, farm bureau director.
F. W. Fisher, Calexico, farm bureau director.
Q. C. Webster, Brawley, farm bureau director.

Frank Adams, Berkeley, University of California.

C. E. Tait, Los Angeles, United States irrigation investigation.

F. J. Verhmeyer, Berkeley, University of California irrigation investigation. Carlos Kupfer, Berkeley, Forest Service.

S. E. Andrews, Colton, Southern Pacific Co.

H. W. Smith, San Francisco, Southern Pacific general passenger department. Douglas White, Los Angeles, agricultural secretary, United States Railroad Administration.

Henry K. Norton, San Francisco, State commission immigration and housing. R. D. McPherrin, Imperial, director irrigation district.

J. H. Edmunds, Calexico, director irrigation district.

H. D. Weber, Oakland, Oakland Post, No. 5, American Legion.

Donald A. Chamock, San Diego, San Diego Post, American Legion.

W. W. McLaughlin, Berkeley, Irrigation Division, United States Department of Agriculture.

Samuel Forlier, Berkeley.

T. E. Scaife, Mining Institute C. E., Cape Town, Irrigation Union of South Africa.

W. R. Parkhill, Berkeley, Federal land bank.

F. S. Lack, Brawley, No. 8 Water Co., chamber of commerce.
Walter B. Kibbey, El Centro, American Legion, Post No. 25.

The following are the suggested amendments to the Kettner bill as incorporated in the resolutions unanimously adopted at the Berkeley conference:

That the State of California shall have the right at its option for a period of 12 months after the passage of the bill to acquire from the Government by purchase, exchange, or otherwise the title to 50,000 acres, or any part thereof, of the public lands susceptible of irrigation by the canals or works mentioned in the bill for settlement under the provisions of the State settlement act.

Provided, however, that the State of California or the settlers therein shall pay the full cost and charges per acre provided therein to be paid for the construction and storage purposes of the act, which shall be assessed by the Secretary of the Interior.

Provided that the charge of $10 per acre shall not be paid on lands reserved for settlement under the State land settlement act or for soldier settlement.

That the lands described in said bill remaining in Government ownership and lying south of the third standard parallel and east of the Imperial irrigation district, not selected by the State of California, shall be set aside and reserved for one year or until water is brought to said lands for soldiers, sailors, and marines, preferential entry or settlement.

And also that said bill shall be amended to provide for direct appropriation by Congress or the issuance of Government bonds in an amount to cover the proportional cost of construction of the works specified in said bill of all lands lying outside of the Imperial irrigation district.