fact, I know it. I know we could proceed under the Smith bill if the Imperial irrigation district never put up a red cent. Now, I an offering to surrender something when I am saying to those people: "Pay me back my money now, and let me get out," but don't tie it on to something that they themselves can go home and kill. I may read some correspondence that I have from Imperial Valley. I am not so certain that all of the men behind my bill want it at all; that they are not taking it as a method of killing the all-American canal themselves. Most of the people that attended the Berkeley conference at Imperial Valley were absolutely enemies of the allAmerican canal, known to be enemies of it all the time, ever since it has been proposed, and I can show you letters to me from people who attended that conference saying identically that thing.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, there is this about it: The question with me is: We want to know how we are proceeding here with the cooperation, consent, and support, positive support, of both sides here. If we haven't that, we want to know it. That is why I called this up at this time. We do not want to have a lot more meetings and not know what we are dealing with. We want to know that we are going to have cooperation; that they are all united when we get through here, because we can't pass this bill unless you are all united and we have things all ironed out so that we can say that every element is satisfied and is joined together in favor of this thing.

Mr. WELLING. It wouldn't be safe to say, Mr. Chairman, to these factions, all of them, that unless they can get together and bring all of the lands in the Imperial Valley under the provisions of the bill that it is pretty safe to say that Congress will take no action.

The CHAIRMAN. That is my view of it.

Mr. HAYDEN. I do not want Mr. Rose to be in the position of the dog in the manger and say, "I will not do anything," and that Congress shall not do anything unless he gets what he thinks is coming to him under his contract.

Mr. WELLING. No; but it seems to me that if the Congress of the United States is to back a $30,000,000 expenditure or $50,000,000 expenditure, it ought to be under conditions that the conflicting interests in the Imperial Valley are able themselves to agree upon the proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. Upon anything reasonable, I would say, anyhow. Mr. KIBBEY. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question of this committee? I would like to know, gentlemen, whether or not you yourselves would pass a bill, would vote for a bill giving a preference right on public lands to private interests? Now, if you will, it is satisfactory to me personally. If you will accept Mr. Rose's amendment and pass it, personally, I will say that I am willing.

The CHAIRMAN. We are not discussing that amendment. We want that eliminated.

Mr. KIBBEY. Now, then, our proposition to Mr. Rose-I can't see why it isn't fair. If the bill doesn't go through, if it isn't passed, he is in the same position that he is now, exactly.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, you stand by that proposition now, as I understand it, just as you stated?

Mr. KIBBEY. If the gentlemen want me to submit to the Imperial irrigation district board the proposition that Mr. Rose suggests that

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we now pay him $75,000 to get out and let this committee do something with the public lands-I will submit the question to the Imperial irrigation district.

Mr. TAYLOR. We don't want anything of that kind. We don't want to be put into the attitude of saying that a committee of Congress can not legislate unless somebody is paid $75,000 to permit us go ahead.

to

The CHAIRMAN. We want you gentlemen to get together.

Mr. KIBBEY. I have made the only offer that I am authorized to make, that we pay him whatever amount he has expended, plus $10,000 to himself-which he says is $75,000-when the bill passes, to be included as a part of the cost of the project.

The CHAIRMAN. You are quite willing to make that offer?
Mr. KIBBEY. I have made it and I stand by it.

Mr. ROSE. If they will give me anybody that will give me 80 cents on the dollar for that contract after I have got it, I will take it; but they can't do it. There isn't a man in the world that would do it under the conditions of such a bill as that. It absolutely establishes a new precedent all the way through, and I don't believe that Congress will pass it.

The CHAIRMAN. But suppose Congress does pass it?

Mr. ROSE. If they don't pass it?

The CHAIRMAN. If they don't pass it, you are left.

Mr. ROSE. Yes; and I have been ready and waiting for a year and a half to proceed on the contract after I made my report. It is here, and I wish you gentlemen would have that report brought in and inspected. Now, I am to be tied up again for the next two or three years, because Mr. Kibbey tells you if this bill passes he won't come back and ask for an appropriation under this Congress; he is going to wait until next Congress.

Mr. KIBBEY. I am not talking about an appropriation bill; I am talking about this particular bill.

Mr. HAYDEN. I want to make a suggestion, that if, as it appears, no legislation can be enacted unless it is satisfactory to Mr. Rose, and the reason for that is that he has a contract with the Secretary of the Interior made some time ago, which has not been carried out, for whatever reason it may be, that perhaps the simplest way out of the difficulty would be for this committee to request the Secretary of the Interior to revoke the contract; then we will know that it is out of the way and there will be nothing to interfere with the necessary legislation.

Mr. WELLING. Isn't the Ross contract just as valid a contract as the contract with the Imperial irrigation district?

Mr. HAYDEN. No; there is a very distinct difference in the validity of the two contracts. If it was a valid contract, and as valid a contract as the Imperial irrigation district contract, the conflicting provisions in the Imperial irrigation district contract would be void. Now, the Secretary of the Interior had this proposal before him from Mr. Rose. Mr. Rose said, "Here are certain areas of public lands that ought to be cultivated; if you will give me a contract I think I can raise money with which to build a canal and other irrigation works." Now, to do that he had to raise twenty or thirty million dollars. He did not have that much money, so he would have to

get it somewhere. Somebody would have to finance him. As time passed he couldn't get the money, because if he could have obtained funds he would have carried out his contract.

Mr. WELLING. He hasn't abandoned it.

Mr. HAYDEN. No; but he has not done anything. That is the way the case appears to me. Mr. Rose obtained this contract from the Secretary of the Interior to irrigate lands on the East Mesa, which would require a large sum of money, and he had nothing but a shoestring as an asset.

Meantime the people of the Imperial irrigation district were in a desperate situation; they had to have relief from the Mexican situation. They made representations to the Secretary of the Interior that they could raise the money to build an all-American canal. Certainly they have got much better assets on which to raise money than Mr. Rose, because they have property values of $100,000,000; they have fifty or sixty thousand people living in Imperial Valley, and they have a crop production of $40,000,000 a year; whereas Mr. Rose has nothing but the prospect of bringing some water onto desert land. The Secretary of the Interior made a contract with the Imperial irrigation district authorizing them to connect with the Laguna dam and build an all-American canal. The district attempts to sell its bonds and finds they can not be sold except at a great discount, because of the condition of the bond market, and by reason of adverse reports made by the Federal Farm Loan Board. So that the district is unable to carry out its contract. Now, the only reason why the people of Imperial Valley are asking Congress for assistance is because they can not sell their bonds under present conditions. The bond buyers say that if the Congress of the United States will approve this project; if it is known that the Secretary of the Interior will direct the expenditure of the money; if it is known that the title to the work is to remain in the United States; if it has the engineering approval of the United States Reclamation Service, then they will buy the bonds of the Imperial irrigation district and furnish the money to do the work.

Mr. Rose has no such meritorious proposition as that. Wherever he, as a promotor who is trying to secure some public land for himself and his associates, which they can sell at a profit, stands in the way of 50,000 or 60,000 people who are struggling to maintain their farms in Imperial Valley, I say that he ought to get out of the way. This committee should not let him block legislation, which, in my judgment, is feasible. Why should one man and a few associates who have entered on a land speculation which they hoped would make them some money, stand in the way of necessary relief legislation for the benefit of 60,000 people in Imperial Valley?

Mr. HUDSPETH. What are you going to pay him this $75,000 for? Mr. HAYDEN. The representatives of the Imperial Irrigation District say that if Mr. Rose has done anything, and possibly he has done some work in promoting the idea of an all-American canalthey are willing to pay him for his losses and expenses, and that is as much as he can ask. I am unable to understand how he can stand before this committee and say, "You shall not pass this bill unless it suits me; unless I am provided for." All he has is a tentative contract with the Secretary of the Interior, which he has not carried

out, because if he had carried it out, there would be nothing for this committee or Congress to do.

Mr. YAGER. Gentlemen, I would like to say a few words in regard to the interest the Coachella Valley has in this bill. Coachella Valley has been referred to a good many times by Mr. Kibbey as bearing a portion of this cost, that they will put up their bonds, and I would like to explain just what proportion, what interest they have in this bill.

You gentlemen will notice that red line there [indicating on map]; that is the all-American canal that has been referred to, which provides for an expenditure of $29,500,000. Of that $29,500,000, the engineers surveying this have apportioned the charges, $17,500,000 to the Imperial irrigation district and $11,500,000 to the outside lands. Now, that $11,500,000 does not provide one bit of irrigation to the outside lands of the Coachella Valley, other than it provides a canal large enough, of sufficient capacity to furnish them water. Now, on top of that $11,500,000 charged to outside lands of which Coachella Valley has 155,000 acres, they propose that we shall build a canal from the point of diversion running up along the edge of the green land there [indicating] and encircling the Coachella Valley, as shown on the blue land there. In addition to that, from the wording of their present bill, they have got the entire amount of storage charged to the outside lands. Considering this as one projects, by far a greater charge is made against the outside lands than is charged to the Imperial irrigation district on this project.

So surely Coachella Valley has something to say on this matter when they bear a good large proportion of the charge of it, and they have not been considered in this bill, and I consider this bill unfair and inequitable because, it proposes to give the lands of the mesa away-they are practically given away for $1.25 an acre-and they say the Imperial irrigation district and the Coachella Valley county water district shall come in and put up their bonds and finance the project. Now, there is a value there I am not saying anything against the soldiers, gentlemen; I am just as much in sympathy with the soldiers as any member of this committee, but we are looking at a business proposition here but if we give that land away, we have got to expect an appropriation from Congress, and most of you, gentlemen, nearly every member of this committee, has assured us that we are out of luck if we expect to get an appropriation from Congress now. If we don't get an appropriation from Congress, which you have assured us we can not get, we have got to look to that project itself to finance it, for the lands to build it themselvesand they will do it; that land is just as valuable as the Yuma-Mesa land that sold for $230 an acre on the average. If these lands sell for half of that-if they sell for a quarter of it, it will finance itself, and if it won't finance itself, it isn't worth building the canal, it wouldn't be good business to appropriate money for.

If, under Mr. Smith's bill, as introduced here, the Secretary of the Interior will estimate the amount of acreage to be irrigated, will estimate the cost it will take per acre to do it; charge that portion to the land, and sell the land for not less than that amount, which will be approximately $30 an acre, that is a system of financing that each acre stands its proportionate share, and Coachella Valley is

willing to come in on it, but if they are going to throw the whole burden on Coachella Valley and the Imperial irrigation district, Coachella Valley is not willing to come in on it. It is not a fair proposition, and that is what bill 11553 provides.

The CHAIRMAN. You are representing Coachella Valley?

Mr. YAGER. I am representing the Coachella Valley county water district, an organization containing approximately 400,000 acres, of which there are about 155,000 acres susceptible of irrigation under this project. Now, there is approximately 500,000 acres outside of the Imperial irrigation district susceptible of irrigation under this project, but there is 584,000 acres within the Imperial irrigation district.

Mr. THOMPSON. Isn't that Coachella Mr. YAGER. A great portion of it is. see the farthest town north on the map sea level. Coachella is 76 feet below sea the Salton Sea.

Valley below the sea level? The town of Indio-you will on the blue-is 22 feet below level, and it runs on down to

Mr. HAYDEN. You made two statements with which I do not agree. One was that the Imperial irrigation district would not pay anything for storage under this bill. The bill provides that the Imperial irrigation district shall pay whatever sum the Secretary of the Interior assesses against them for storage.

The second statement which you made that I do not agree with is that an unfair proportion of the cost would be assessed against the Imperial irrigation district and the Coachella Valley. The Secretary of the Interior is authorized to apportion the costs according to the benefits. The lands in the Coachella district, for instance, having now no water from the river, the lands on the east mesa reserved for soldier settlement having now no water from the river, would undoubtedly be assessed, acre for acre, exactly alike.

Mr. YAGER. If you will read section 15 of that bill, it providesThe CHAIRMAN (interposing). Which bill?

Mr. YAGER. 11553. It provides that as to the natural flow of the water of the Colorado River the Imperial irrigation district shall have a right prior to the ouside lands under this project. Section 16 provides that the land this side of the line shall have a prior right over the land on the other side of the line, in Mexico, to the water; consequently that gives the Imperial irrigation district an adequate supply of water from the Colorado River for irrigation.

Mr. WELLING. The same supply that they are now using.

Mr. YAGER. The same supply that they are now using, and they would have the advantage of a right over approximately 120,000 acres now being irrigated in Mexico.

Then section 2 of that bill provides that the Secretary is obligated to assess the charges for storage and other charges according to the comparative benefits derived. That would necessitate the Secretary of the Interior morally to find all the storage chargeable to the outside lands, because the Imperial Valley could come in under 11553 and say that they have not received one bit of benefit from storage, because they had an adequate supply before.

Mr. HAYDEN. The truth is that the Imperial irrigation district has not had an entirely adequate supply of water. A table submitted by Judge Swing showed that during certain months in the year when