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that it will progress very much slower. So after you built the allAmerican canal you probably wouldn't have 250,000 acres under cultivation in less than 5 years and the other 250,000 acres in 15 years. It is slow. It is a different proposition from what you might. imagine. Mr. SUMMERs. But even if it is slow, Mr. Rose, you have to plan all the way through for the future before you spend $30,000,000. Mr. Rose. Well, you have to plan for the future, that is very true; but my point was, Mr. Summers, that you have a great many years during the time you are constructing the all-American canal to plan, and there is nobody disputes at this time that there is sufficient water and that there are sufficient storage sites to store enough water to: irrigate the entire area. So you have a number of years in which to run. Mr. SUMMERs. I understood Director Davis to say that you get dangerously close to a shortage of water on the present area sometimes now. Mr. Rose. If the committee wanted to hear that I could go into it. again and say this: That that is true in the month of September, but during that month Mexico is taking 36 per cent of the water which we divert. Now, we were irrigating 400,000 acres with approximately 64 per cent of the water. We were diverting that on American soil, and had we had that same amount of water it would have irrigated 200,000 acres more, properly handled, in months of July and August, when we had abundance of water in the river, any amount of it. We were trying to put in this temporary weir, which you can't put in until the river recedes down to 20,000 second-feet, and it drops. very rapidly, as the people who live on the Colorado know, and it takes two or three weeks to construct this dam, 900 feet in length, built of rock, and while they were getting the rock out there and dumping them we were two or three weeks without enough water, and then for a period of three or four days after it got to us, maybe there would be five or six thousand second-feet of water that would be used filling up sloughs and one thing and another; where if we had had normal use of water during the months of July and August we wouldn't have been using 2,000 second-feet of water, and we were diverting the entire river at that time. Probably we were not using over 1,500 second-feet of water on the American lands. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Rose, I want you to finish your statement, but I want to hear Gen. Davis after you do finish, for just a few minutes, perhaps about the soil investigations. Mr. SMITH of Idaho. I would like to ask Mr. Rose that it is impossible to get the Kettner bill or the Smith bill or any of these other bills that have been introduced enacted into law this session, do you think, in view of that fact it would be still better not to pass this bill and to do nothing? Mr. RosB. Well, I am very much inclined to think this bill has this tendency, gentlemen, of delay. Mr. Kibbey has said to you the people of the valley believe this is a pledge of Congress to pass the Kettner bill; that is the reason the people of Imperial Valley have indorsed this bill very largely; they are farmers and they believe that this Government is going to do it. I don't believe it is.

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I believe if Imperial Valley understood the real situation as you people here understand it, as you gentlemen around this table understand it, they would immediately start to help themselves, and if you hold out an inducement to them that you are going to do something later on for them, without you are pretty sure that you are going to do it it is going to delay the situation for at least 12 or 14 months, and then they are going to find themselves in identically the same situation that they are in to-day.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you take the responsibility, Mr. Rose, of saying here, knowing that there will be no other bill recommended by the committee at this session, that we should do nothing at all with this bill and should drop the Imperial Valley proposition?

Mr. Rose. I am on record, just as my statement here is, that I am opposed to it, gentlemen. I am willing to take any responsibility that appears to me to be necessary and the best thing for my people. I have no fear of responsibility. I am interested where I live and w.here my property is, in trying to find a solution to save that property, and I don't want to lose any time. I will answer the question frankly; I will take the responsibility and I am willing to go back and tell the people of Imperial Valley, and tell them why; I am willing to go back and tell them what I think of this situation absolutely. I always have done that and they know that is my way of doing business.

The CHAIRMAN. Now you represent whom? Mr. Rose. I answered that, but I represent to-day the ImperialLaguna Water Co., and I represent myself as a landholder in Imperial Valley, and I have telegrams which I could read to this committee saying that the people of Imperial Valley were not in favor of this bill, although they thought the board of directors were cramming it down their throats.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. You think it is possible for people in Imperial Valley to handle the situation without legislation from Con

gress?

Mr. Rose. I do, absolutely.

Mr. Smith of Idaho. You have changed your mind in reference to it?

Mr. Rose. I don't know that I have. I told Mr. Kibbey when they came here two and a half months ago that I thought that would be the only relief Imperial Valley would ever get, would be for the valley themselves to handle it, because I have come to that conclusion and I have watched the situation pretty fairly closely.

The CHAIRMAN. If this bill is in good faithMr. ROSE (interposing). I am not charging it is not in good faith, Judge.

The CHAIRMAN. But if it is in good faith and it is expected that Congress will act upon the report made next December, pursuant to the bill, and go along and pass legislation which the report will recommend, then you would not stand in the way of this?

Mr. Rose. If I felt that Congress would pass the legislation according to the report, and it was a pledge on their part, as Mr. Kibbey said, to do it, I would not stand in the way of it, but I don't believe it.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, if there is nothing else, we will hear Gen. Davis.

Mr. Rose. By the way, I would like to ask permission to file with this committee, whether you ever publish them or not, the soil reports if I feel like doing that.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. I do not think that would be advantageous to the Imperial Valley to file that report and have it circulated around as a public document.

Mr. WELLING. It would not be advantageous to the fellow that made the report, but it would not hurt the valley.

Mr. Rose. It would not hurt the valley, because it is too well known.

Mr. Smith of Idaho. Intending settlers might read the report and be misinformed.

Mr. Davis. I think, Mr. Chairman, it is true that a soil report on the Imperial Valley was once made by one of the departments of the Government, not the department that I was in, but another, and it was made before I knew it was in progress, at all; that had some mistakes in it, but it is not true that all the land that they condemned is good land. There is a lot of land there that is not good land in the Imperial Valley, right around the town of Imperial, which was partly under cultivation when they were examining it, and that land to-day is not under cultivation or was not the last time I saw it. There is a considerable area besides that, I am told—I don't know where it is, but I am told that there are about 20,000 acres of land in other places where there is alkali rising, and I know the land around Imperial that was in cultivation at that time and is now idle is some of the land that the Holmes report, which has been discussed here, referred to. Probably there are some errors in that report. I don't doubt it at all, but if you are going to condemn all future investigation because somebody has made a mistake, the report that Mr. Rose made on the Imperial Canal condemns all subsequent investigations. He made a report there that it could be built for a very small amount of money, only a fraction of what it would cost to build it. I don't criticize him nor his engineer for that. They did not have much information to base it on, but that doesn't mean that we don't want to know the facts because somebody has made a mistake regarding the facts. It means we must learn those facts.

The same thing is true of the soil. The Imperial-Laguna Mesa has not been examined. There hasn't been a soil survey made of that land, and it is totally different in character, as everybody knows.

The CHAIRMAN. That contains how large an area ?

Mr. Davis. I presume it is half a million acres in area; not all irrigable but a good deal of it is. There are probably three or four hundred thousand acres of irrigable land there, but we don't know how much.

The CHAIRMAN. That is irrigable by gravity ?
Mr. DAVIS. Yes; but some of it could be pumped on, too.

Mr. WELLING. Gen. Davis, why do you say that it never has been examined ? It may, according to that theory, be worthless. Still you come to us representing the Secretary of the Interior, recommending bills to water it all.

Mr. Davis. The soil has not been examined; but, as I said in my previous talk, I would like to see legislation go through providing for the all-American canal, because of the urgency of saving the Imperial Valley.

185833_20_ 38

Mr. HAYDEN. That is, prior to building laterals from the allAmerican canal you would have time to examine the soil and find what was good land?

Mr. Davis. If the Kettner bill passes, proposing this entire proposition, I still think that one of the first things we should do under this bill is to make a soil examination, so as to classify the land, and the other things contemplated in this bill should be done then, and our plans could be corrected as we go along. We find that this information is insufficient, and Members of Congress object to buying a pig in a poke, to making an appropriation that has got to be spent on information to be obtained in the future. It will put that legislation in stronger shape to have that information available; it will put the district in stronger shape, if it has to finance itself, to have more information available. You can't get money put as readily on a proposition that is not thoroughly investigated as you can on one that is, if it turns out to be favorable.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, unless some one else wishes to make a further statement, the hour of adjournment has arrived.

Mr. ROSE. I have something more that I want to say. Mr. Davis intimated to this committee that the only lands those people condemned was a little spot around Imperial, on the east side. I want to file that report with this committee. I wish some of you gentlemen would look it over.

Mr. SMITH of Idaho. Bring it in and we will look at it.

Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Chairman, why not perfect this bill and report it to the House if that is all that can be done?

Mr. BARBOUR. Why not meet in the morning for a few minutes ? It is long after 12 o'clock now.

Mr. KIBBEY. I have just one word to say in reply to Mr. Rose's statement, that a telegram was received by me this morning from the Imperial irrigation district, which says:

You will please deny in strongest possible terms the statements made by Rose that the Imperial Valley can or will undertake to build the all-American canal without legislation, or in any wise without definite and certain Government control and assistance guaranteed by appropriate legislation.

That is signed by the Imperial irrigation district. The CHAIRMAN. Do you want to answer that, Mr. Rose ? Mr. ROSE. The only answer I have to that is that I have seen Imperial Valley do that stunt several times. They ousted the board one time and gave them 15 minutes to get out, and if they want to build this canal the farmers will build it without any regard to the board.

The CHAIRMAN. This will close the hearings, gentlemen, and we are very much obliged to you, and we will now recess until 2,30 o'clock this afternoon.

(Whereupon, at 12.20 o'clock p. m., the committee recessed until 2.30 o'clock p. m. this day.)

COMMITTEE ON IRRIGATION OF ARID LANDS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

: Friday, March 5, 1920. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. M. P. Kinkaid (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, I have called the committee together this morning for the purpose of hearing the draft of the report I have

been instructed to prepare in reporting out from the committee H. R. 12537, being a bill to provide for an examination and report on the condition and possible irrigation development of the Imperial Valley in California.

The report contains all the amendments suggested at our meeting of the 3d instant, and which I will now read.

If there are any omissions, corrections, or further suggestions regarding the report, we will now hear them and dispose of them.

Mr. BARBOUR. I think the report covers the ground thoroughly and should be the unanimous report of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. I will submit this report to the Congress as the unanimous report of the committee at to-day's session.

[Report to accompany H. R. 12537.) The Committee on Irrigation of Arid Lands, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 12537) providing for an examination and report on the condition and possible irrigation development of the Imperial Valley in California, begs leave to report it back to the House with the following specified amendments, with the recommendation that the amendments be agreed to and as amended that the bill do pass.

The committee recommends the following amendments to the bill, namely: 1. On page 2, line 2, after the word “ valley” insert "and adjacent thereto."

2. On page 2, line 4, after the word “supply" strike out the period and insert a comma, and thereafter the words "by diversion of water from the Colorado River at Laguna Dam."

3. On page 2, line 5, strike out the word “make.” 4. On page 2, line 7, strike out the word “of” at the beginning of the line. 5. On page 2, line 12, after the word " valley” insert " and adjacent thereto."

6. On page 2, line 21, after the words “ Imperial Valley” strike out the period and insert “and adjacent lands."

7. On page 2, line 25, after the word “the” and before the word "propor. tion” insert “approximate.”

8. On page 3, line 11, after the word "pay" insert "not to exceed.”
9. On page 3, line 13, strike out the words “not to exceed.”
10. On page 3, line 16, after the word “of” insert “at least."

The bill as finally considered, passed upon, and approved by the committee with its recommendation that it do pass, is as follows:

“ (H. R. 12537, Sixty-sixth Congress, second session.)

“ (Omit the part struck through and insert the part printed in italic.]

"A BILL To provide for an examination and report on the condition and

possible irrigation development of the Imperial Valley in California.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to have an examination made of the Imperial Valley in the State of California, with a view of determining the area, location, and general character of the public and privately owned unirrigated lands in said valley which can be irrigated at a reasonable cost, and the character, extent, and cost of an irrigation system, or of the modification, improvement, enlargement, and extension of the present system, adequate and dependable for the irrigation of the present irrigated area in the said valley, and of the public and privately owned lands in said valley and adjacent thereto not now under irrigation, which can be irrigated at a reasonable cost from known sources of water supply, by diversion of water from the Colorado River at Laguna Dam.

“SEC. 2. That the said Secretary shall make report to Congress not later than the 6th day of December, 1920, of the result of his examination, together with his recommendation as to the feasibility, necessity, and advisability of the undertaking, or the participation by the United States, in a plan of irrigation development with a view of placing under irrigation the remaining unirri. gated public and privately owned lands in said valley, and adjacent thereto in

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