Mr. DAVIS. There is another consideration that I have not yet mentioned that makes this pending bill very important. It is an indirect effect, aside from the diversion of the water supply from the Alamo, that threatens the water supply of the Imperial district. They have a menace even greater than that in the possibility of the Colorado River leaving its channel and running into the Alamo, as it did once before, and thereby submerging the entire valley in time. As that persists it becomes more and more difficult to change, because it cuts a deep channel, and the deep channel that it did cut before has advanced from the Salton Sea up here [indicating], making an overpour at Calexico, and farther up the stream it was rapidly advancing up to a point where President Roosevelt. in a message, said he considered menaced the safety of the Laguna Dam. In that opinion I do not share, but a board of engineers had so reported.

Mr. LITTLE. Is there any place along the Alamo Canal there to build a big storage dam?

Mr. DAVIS. There is no possibility of a big one.

Mr. HAYDEN. Why did the engineers think that was a menace to the Laguna Dam?

Mr. DAVIS. Because it was cutting a deep channel.

Mr. HAYDEN. You say you did not share in that view? Why not? Mr. DAVIS. For the reason that there is a lot of hardpan on the river here at Yuma, cutting in here [indicating].

Mr. HAYDEN. That would cause a cataract at Yuma until that hardpan was cut away.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; until that was cut down it would distribute the fall; it would retard that until the whole Imperial Valley fills up, and when that fills up you have not got any big fall to do this cutting with at that time by cutting away this hardpan. It is really a soft rock, such as Penitentiary Hill is composed of, and the Indian school is build on it, which created rapids at Yuma that destroyed navigation. They tried to get up there on the steamboat accustomed to going up and failed. Navigation was destroyed.

Mr. HAYDEN. You speak of filling up the whole Imperial Valley. Would it be possible, if the natural flow of the Colorado River was diverted, that enough water would run into the valley to fill it up? Would not the time come when evaporation would balance the inflow?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir; but the probabilities are that it would fill up enough to run out. It would have to fill up to 30 feet above the sea level before it would run out. The probabilities are it would flow out in spite of evaporation.

Mr. WELLING. It would not be much comfort to those themselves who own that land.

Mr. DAVIS. In order to properly protect the valley it is necessary to maintain and continuously reinforce works in Mexico as well, and it will eventually be necessary to throw this river down permanently to the Gulf of California so as to make a proper channel for it. It has now an unstable level. They are now increasing the height of that levee at the expense of the Imperial Valley. The Imperial Valley is subject to constant injustice from Mexican authorities charging exorbitant prices for materials, and some arrange

ment should be made that Mexico should ask the United States to do that.

Mr. TAYLOR. Does Mexico charge an import duty for that—taking that stuff down there to this river?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir; they have. This river is just as much a menace to the Mexican lands as it is to our American lands, when the Americans have to stand the expense of it, and of course it is for their interest for them to do it.

Mr. HAYDEN. If you had complete storage on the stream, the flood! menace would be removed?

Mr. DAVIS. If we had complete storage it would be largely bettered and the flood menace would be removed.

Mr. HAYDEN. For that reason the lands in the Imperial Valley could be asked to contribute something to storage, because it would relieve them of the flood menace.

Storage in moderate
The reservoirs might

Mr. DAVIS. Do not misunderstand me. amount would not correct the flood menace. be built then. But if sufficient reservoirs were built to entirely control it, it would.

Mr. SMITH. Would the construction of an all-American canal remove the menace permanently?

Mr. DAVIS. That alone would not remove it, but it would secure the American water supply and would enable the 'district to exact cooperation and payment for benefits. It is the only way I see by which any collections of any kind, involuntarily or otherwise, can be made from the Mexican lands. So far as I know, it never was proposed by advocates of the all-American canal or by any of the officials of the Imperial district, to do any injustice to the owners of the lands in Mexico. All they ask is for them to bear an equal share of the burdens of protection of the water supply and maintenance from year to year and enforce that until they get an all-American canal. Mr. HAYDEN. Would it be advisable for this committee to have before us the owners of these Mexican lands and state to them that we had in view the passage of legislation to do what you propose, and then see if any arrangement could be made with them, for instance, for enlarging the canal from Laguna Dam down to the Mexican line to provide their lands with a water supply? Would it be worth while for this committee to have some statement from them as to what they are willing to do in that regard?

Mr. DAVIS. If they desire to make any representations to the committee on the subject, they should be given that privilege, but so far as making any negotiations for bearing their share of the cost, I thing a congressional committee is an unwieldly body to undertake that, and it would be better that it should be an executive function. Mr. TAYLOR. What is the attitude of the American owners of this land in Mexico regarding this all-American canal? Do they want it or don't they want it?

Mr. DAVIS. Í have not heard anybody say, but one of the representative owners down there has visited the Secretary of the Interior and expressed a willingness to bear the share which would equitably come to the lands of their expense of protection of the water supply.

Mr. TAYLOR. Provided they did not go ahead with that.
Mr. DAVIS. No; he did not make that a condition.

Mr. HAYDEN. I do not think there is any escape from the fact that if the all-American canal is constructed the owners of the Mexican lands will come to the United States and say, "We have under cultivation a certain area in Lower California, and in the plans for the construction of the all-American canal no provision is made for us to get our water. We can not take out water at the present heading, because it menaces the Yuma project; we are entitled to water.' Our answer would be, "You are entitled to water if you pay for the canal capacity."

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. HAYDEN. And the extra canal capacity to provide water for these Mexican lands will have to be paid for by the owners of such lands.

Mr. DAVIS. It should be.

Mr. HAYDEN. The only way to find out if they are willing to pay for their share of the extra canal capacity from Laguna Dam to the Mexican line is to say that to the Mexican landowners. Some of them reside in the United States, are American citizens, and men of wealth, according to Mr. Rose.

Mr. Rose. I think that is the situation.

Mr. HAYDEN. It would seem to me, under the circumstances, that this committee ought to find out whether they are willing to pay for their part of the cost of this new canal.

Mr. KETTNER. Mr. Director, right there, Mr. Hayden has thoroughly gone into the subject of stipulating as to a certain amount of land on the American side, if these Americans should so conclude and the committee should see fit to take this up, naturally you would want to see these landowners in Mexico pay the same as those in the United States.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. KETTNER. And they would want an agreement from the Mexican Government to irrigate 100,000 acres.

Mr. WELLING. I think the American Government ought to build a canal and then tell these Mexican owners they could take what was left.

Mr. TAYLOR. Gentlemen, if you want your bread, pay for it. That is right.

Mr. HAYDEN. In case representations were made by the Mexican Government to the American Government that there are certain property owners of Mexico who have heretofore enjoyed water rights to certain lands, our Government would naturally have to show a willingness to share in the use of the works that we are constructing, provided the Mexican landowners were willing to put up the money. I would like to find out what could be done in that regard. This committee ought to know now, because that situation is bound to arise in course of time.

Mr. DAVIS. The only way to determine that would be to have a contract with them, which it would be advisable to authorize the Secretary to make.

Mr. HAYDEN. The Secretary of the Interior could make a contract with certain American citizens owning land in Mexico whereby, as American citizens, they would give a bond to the United States to insure the payment of their proper share of the cost of the irrigation works to be constructed. We would get the money from them

in this country so we would not have to have any diplomatic dealings with Mexico.

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; we could deliver that water to them in the United States.

Mr. SUMMERS. Is it necessary to have a levee on the Mexican side in order to ultimately protect the Imperial Valley?

Mr. DAVIS. Absolutely.

Mr. SUMMERS. Would not that be used as a strong argument for their rights.

Mr. HAYDEN. Possibly so. I had not thought of that.

Mr. SINNOTT. I may have missed the point. You are not going to abandon the Alamo Canal?

Mr. DAVIS. When the all-American canal is built the American lands are supposed to abandon it.

Mr. SINNOTT. But we will not disturb it in any way near the intake?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir.

Mr. SINNOTT. We will leave that to the Mexicans to handle.

Mr. DAVIS. The intake is in the United States, and it is not proposed to disturb the Mexicans making use of it without the consent of the United States authorities.

Mr. SUMMERS. Could they drop down on Mexican territory and divert there just as well?

Mr. DAVIS. Not quite as well, but about as well. They could divert below the line practically as well as up there, because they have only one side of the river.

Mr. SUMMERS. Which side?

Mr. DAVIS. The west side. First, as they come down they lose grade, and they would not be able to build a dam without the consent of the United States, because it would be in Arizona, until they went below the Arizona boundary.

Mr. SUMMERS. But that would not irrigate their lands.

Mr. DAVIS. I think most of their lands now irrigated could be covered from the diversion down here. The Alamo falls rapidly there. Their diversion is at this point and the river falls here.

Mr. LITTLE. You speak of a steamboat on the Rio Colorado. What additional steamboats navigate on that river?

Mr. DAVIS. It was formerly navigable. There were three or four steamboats plying for the benefit of various settlements.

Mr. LITTLE. From where?

Mr. DAVIS. Clear down to the Gulf of California, and along up to the point where the river forms the boundary between Nevada and Arizona, but most of the traffic was between Yuma and the Needles. Mr. LITTLE. They still take a boat from Yuma to the Gulf of California?

Mr. DAVIS. They could not at low water, but at high water they might.

Mr. LITTLE. What part of the year is there that you could?

Mr. DAVIS. Any time during the season from the 1st of May until the 1st of August.

Mr. LITTLE. Do you know the next river below on the California side, the St. Ysabel, below the Gulf on the western side?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; I am not acquainted down there.

Mr. LITTLE. There is no river down there that is navigable?

Mr. DAVIS. I do not know as to that.

Mr. SMITH. In the early inception of the reclamation policy, did. the service contemplate making a project at Imperial Valley?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir; in the distant future, and this land was withdrawn with that in view.

Mr. SMITH. When was the Yuma project approved?

Mr. DAVIS. In 1908. Legislation, however, was obtained prior to that, authorizing the service to build a dam and divert the water across the line of direct navigation, which required legislation in order to protect it. The legislation provided for establishing reservoirs on the west side of the Colorado River and for the building of a dam at that point and diversion of water.

Mr. SMITH. The bill provides for selling anybody's land at $10 an acre, and recognized the sale for not less than $10 an acre?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SMITH. Do you think it is possible to sell this land if we secure the necessary legislation for a sufficient amount to construct this allAmerican canal?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. SMITH. If the lands are so valuable as is claimed, it seems to me they would sell for $40 or $50 an acre or over; would that be sufficient?

Mr. DAVIS. $100 an acre, and 200,000 acres would be $20,000,000.
Mr. SMITH. There are 400,000 acres.

Mr. DAVIS. Not of public land; there is probably less than 200,000. Mr. SMITH. The railroad people are expected to pay their proportion or share, are they not?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; but you asked if the public lands would sell for enough.

Mr. SMITH. If the railroad lands would be required to pay the same amount for the construction of the canal?

Mr. DAVIS. It might be. I have not figured it up. It is my guess what it would sell for. Congress passed a law a few years ago authorizing the United States through the Secretary of the Interior to sell the land at Yuma Mesa to provide irrigation, and it is proposed to undertake that next fall. We have been making preparations for it and have about concluded to go ahead with the opening.

Mr. EVANS. What is the elevation of the mesa below that river?
Mr. DAVIS. The water has to be lifted 80 feet.

Mr. EVANS. I understood you said you have been making a ditch at 150 feet in the sand hills. The sand hills have a cut of 150 feet? Mr. DAVIS. A small part of it does. That is simply the sunken part.

Mr. EVANS. How do you propose to do that with an open cut?

Mr. DAVIS. That is what is now proposed. It might be tunneled. Mr. LITTLE. Do you think it should be better to have the Rio Colorado of Mexico back in its old bed?

Mr. DAVIS. It would be better, and I think eventually we will have to put it back there, but it may not be in its old bed. Its old bed is higher than some of the other country and it would be very likely necessary to make a new channel for that river there. If levees were placed 500 to 1,000 feet apart so the river is unable to meander, it does not attack the levees and undermine them, and if that river is to

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