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Chairman GLENN. We will now hear from Mr. Sol Linowitz.

Mr. LINOWITZ. Senator, since I had the opportunity to make a statement yesterday, may I just reserve comments until later.

Chairman GLENN. Fine. Thank you.
We will now hear from Mr. Buckminster Fuller.

TESTIMONY OF BUCKMINSTER FULLER, WORLD FELLOW IN RESIDENCE, CONSORTIUM OF UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, HAVERFORD COLLEGE, SWARTHMORE COLLEGE, BRYN MAWR COLLEGE

of

Mr. FULLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman GLENN. Let me state at this point that Mr. Fuller was not here when we started out this morning. I was handed a note that your train was late coming in this morning, so we are glad to have you with us now.

We have asked everybody to make a brief presentation, and any papers will be included in the record, so if you have an opening statement you wish to make, you may do so. Just be brief.

Mr. FULLER. Yes. I think I will be brief, and I would like to say that I am 80 years

age,
and

my memory span doesn't go over the entire period of change, and that I am a student of the things that have happened over the many, many years, and I would like to say that we are talking about almost a century.

The changes are almost more than a human being can cope with now, but I think to even talk about 10 years, that we will see more changes in these next 10 years than humanity has experienced in the whole history of mankind up to now.

I take the position that we started in a given environment, that we have certain physical conditions to cope with, where we have so much water, and that it does freeze and boil, and that we have this very thin film of water on our planet, and we do not know of water anyplace else.

We have very special conditions, and we have to be able to alter our relationships to those conditions, and so it is going to be the scientific discoveries that will change the planet in relation to our environment. We do now have many, many inventions, and it is an open-ended affair. Somebody says you left this out, but we must consider the total system in relation to science; then we must consider the family that has to deal with all of this. Now man has discovered 12 chemical elements; he is using them; he has isolated them.

The first known isolation was in 1200; the next isolation was 200 years later; then 200 years later again; then suddenly by 1932, the time of the great crash,—the depression in that year. It was the isolation of the conglomerates which was accomplished.

Humanity now had the knowledge on how to separate out its constituents, and by reassociating them, to bring about preferred relationships.

The relationship to that background of year 1200 to today: Over a period of 800 years, there has been a clear acceleration of the sciences. It is very, very impressive. Then again this background of 800 years

ago: We have human beings then that had to cope with the environment with their capabilities. Now the human being is able to live under conditions that they were not living before, so we have altered our conditions. I look at the history of human beings, in the environmental controls which have made it possible to exist under conditions that they were not able to exist before; and from inside that environmental control, to make a complete different set of circumstances of our Earth. We find suddenly that man was able then to withstand all of the conditions in going around, and then he made a complete circle of our Earth in one sailing ship, controlled by the winds. Then 350 years later, he goes around in a steel ship, and then 75 years later in an airplane, and then another 35 years later in an exotic rocket.

When he went around in a wooden sailing ship, it took him 2 years. The steamship took him 2 months, and the aluminum airplane took him a matter of days, and then the exotic rocket took him only 1 hour.

We had this great curve of acceleration of gained time through science, and we had the additional acceleration of how long it took him to make it.

This chart shows the acceleration. If you would look at this, it brings us up to 1985, realizing there is no possible prediction, when you go around in a steamship, and then you wind up in a rocketship. Everyone of us have seen things that have been the unexpected.

To really understand this situation by 1985, I would say something surprising will happen. We may be sending you around by radio within 10 years. When we begin to think about our relationships, our responsibilities, as Government to human beings in the next century, we are taking a very big chance when we talk about the next century. I would say, to me the most important consideration, is the fact that human beings are the most complex organisms that we know of that exists—short of the universe itself.

If we try to get a comparison of the total inventory of the organism, nothing could be found as complex as the human being. There are almost miniature units within his capability.

We have that capability, and we have the capability that no other creature has been able to accomplish, for many creatures do have brains, and brains always have the dealings of each special case of information, they have to have input, and then they do need the muscle power, and we might call in those special cases, from time to time the principle does exist, the relationship exists and they are specialities by themselves, and the brain is able to discover these things.

We have the interrelationships, and by seeing the planets, we know they are there, and we know that the human mind does have special capability of discovering generalized principles, but you always need those special cases, and all special cases are terminal, and then you have the beginning and ending of the universe. The mind having the capability to discover generalized principles

, it could give a generalized principle if there was never any exception, but that is really only a term.

carte Le cratically elected, it is not important, and I am sure the universe is w with nonsense in relationship to the whole thing, and I think we are Time that is now dealing with a reality of the universe where everything is going

The human mind has the only access to some of the generalized principles, actually governing the universe itself, and we must think of things in those terms of the functioning of the human being in our universe, and I try to think of that function, certainly it would be in relation to the mind, and incidentally, there is now a plurality of those generalized principles which have been discovered, and which

we need to know about the whole situation, so that they are all interele: accommodated, that is, the interrelationship one to the other, and

that all our accommodating, and that it is part of the design.
If we have that access to a design, then we can think ahead.
You and I are completely invisible on this planet, and what we
now know of as a billion galaxies is our Earth, and 800 billion stars,
and obviously that universe, whether we are Republican or Demo-
not saying we cannot afford another galaxy, and that we are talking
quite clearly here for our minds, but by virtue of our minds, we are

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to affect ali of our own realities, that is, the great reality now is the good that we can do for the individual, and we are here for our minds, and I say, we have been able to take inventory of the relative abundance, we have been able to photograph the atom, and there are many things that we have been able to do.

The question is, do we have the ability to go further. We are here for our minds, and I think come now that we are in a group room of committee ignorance, where we are functioning by trial and error, and we must be able to find our way, but we are at a point where humanity has enough information, and nature quite clearly is trying to change things, it is trying to make human beings à success

, and it needs this kind of capability. I think the universe probably has some local monitor with a problem-solving capability to be able to really guarantee the integrity of the universe. I think we are here for a purpose, and so we are coming out of the

group room of committee ignorance, and I think as we come out of the room, if our muscles are in control of our minds, then it will be a stillbirth.

If we come out successfully, and our minds are in control, then we have a good birth, and that is why I am excited that there is an event such as this, which has this perspective, and that it is a reality that we are here considering our circumstances.

Finally, if I may wrap this up, when I was born, my father was in the leather business, and the quickest way to get to India and the Argentina at that time was 3 months to India, 2 months to Argen

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It took months to travel then, and now we can do the same in 24 hours

, so suddenly we are in a position that we are able to move rapidly, but we have also expanded three times our membership on this planet, so we have gone through a fantastic change in many

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We have seen the illiteracy rate disappear from 90 percent to 10 percent, and today the majority of the people are literate, and we are at the point where humanity knows about humanity, and we are now at the point where the people are being informed, but yet unquestionably we do have many needs.

We did not know we were going to have the satellites, we did not know we were going to have the consors, but there is experimental data showing an affirmative and negative attitude of human beings, and we will be able to have consors picking up how the human being feels on any given question, and in 10 years we will certainly have within any given proposition how humanity feels about itself, and then you do see that the majority can make great mistakes, but that is the way we are designed, to make mistakes.

I think we will have the 1-to-1 correspondence between thousands.

We had the 1-to-1 communication via correspondence, and then television came, and then everybody know what was going on through the news, so you do get 1-to-1 correspondence, and you do have informed and educated human beings, and we will see a complete break down of all isolated parts of this Earth.

We have great corporations that find it intolerable to stay within a nation, and humanity had found it intolerable to stay within its nation.

These are the things you will have to face up to, and I am sure, personally again, I feel great confidence to sit beside such men as we have here with such great perspectives.

Chairman GLENN. Thank you very much.

We have covered the gambit with the opening remarks which took quite a while today.

We want to get back with all of the potential capability, with the social versus the physical, in the planning area. What can be done, or are we doing too much? We want to take up our three agenda items one at a time.

I am glad Senator Javits of the Government Operations Committee has joined us now. Do you have any statement that you want to make

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to add, as Mr. Fuller said, that it is great that we are having this. We are always talking about the reservoir of brains and skills that we have, and here we have marshaled this fine group, one of three that we have had this week.

I am very grateful to those who participate for this important function, as well as for their instructions, and I am so pleased that we have enlightened members, like Chairman Glenn, who have the vision to gather up this group.

I only express one hope, as we are here to hear you, not to hear me, and that is that you will take a continuing interest, and if you do glean from discussion some ideas that need to be developed, that you will develop them. Consider yourself appointed by us for that purpose so that we may hear from you. This is not a one-shot operation, and I assure you that if anything comes out of it, that is at all relevant to what we are doing, I certainly would favor strongly a return engagement, so that the interim communications, interdissemination, if you will, may continue.

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This is highly desirable. I just express my gratitude to all of those who participate, and please believe me, notwithstanding our coming in and out, since we do have six committees every morning.

My situation today, running in and out, is just like the Senate floor Det where the observer in the gallery thinks there are five Senators, that

they are not listening to all of the arguments. Yet by some strange
process of osmosis, we do listen to all of the arguments. Our people
are out there, and somehow or other, the feeling, the aura, the im-
pact, does get to us.

I know that is the same here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
Chairman Glenn. Thank you, Senator Javits.

What role should government play? Where too often we tend to es, to drift into our situations, not by any forethought, or planning, but it

is a matter of taking advantage of the opportunities that have been made available to us.

Too often we are less in command of the future than we could have been, by the lack of looking ahead, perhaps.

Would anyone care to address what role they think the Government should play?

We have addressed a number of specifics here, of energy and social problems, and what potentials lie ahead for the future, and should we just drift, or let us define first if we can what role government

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Anyone care to comment ? Mr. Raskin? Mr. Raskin. I have only one comment. Chairman Glenn. Let me add before you start, that I want to make this conversational. It does not always have to run through me. If someone wants to reply to Mr. Raskin, fine. Mr. Raskin. I think there is too much of a picture of the American Government, American corporations, in which somehow they find themselves in situations, that it really is not reflective, a very clear intention on the part of the people, who have a view as to what they see, as their interest lies, whether it is the short term, or the long term, and it seems to me that one would be able, that is not to say, that it comes out the way they expect it to come out in practice, but the fact is that many people who take part in government, do have an intention, that what they are able to do is use the machinery of government for those particular intentions, and so I think the first place to start would be to say, yes, we do drift, but that drifting is a reflection of intention on the part of various people, and so it becomes important, it seems to me to analyze this.

The second point, I make this in discussion, is to take one particular political conception, and I would view the three questions you are asking around government, as having to do with political conception, and deal with that, and so for an example, I think Dr. Goldmark's notion, which I would both agree and disagree with, is very important.

That is, what is the nature at this point of decentralization, is that possible, because decentralization in effect goes to the question of the building of an autonomous community, developing of participation, the use of government, and so forth, for the purpose of so-called resolving different problems.

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