and put in their crops, such as sugar beets in the spring, spend their money for labor for seeding, for fertilizer, and getting the land in shape, and then when they needed the water in the latter part of the summer there was no water, and the crop and entire investment was lost.

Senator BANKHEAD. What would he have planned to sow had he had that information that you speak of?

Mr. BOYD. Grains and early producing crops that would mature before the shortage of water affected them.

Senator BANKHEAD. This program applies only to agriculture when they get their water from drainage canals?

Mr. BOYD. No; it applies to all western irrigation farming.

Senator POPE. And also to domestic use.

Mr. BOYD. And to domestic use and power and navigation.

Senator RUSSELL. You have been doing this work for a considerable number of years, have you?

Mr. BOYD. For 2 years, sir.

Senator RUSSELL. Has it resulted in any substantial value to the farmers throughout that section?

Mr. BOYD. Oh, yes; I think so.

Senator RUSSELL. I note that the House allowed you a $10,000 increase over the amount you had last year for this purpose.

Mr. BOYD. No, sir; not for this purpose, Senator.

Senator RUSSELL. What is this item here on supplemental irrigation? Is that another item?

Mr. BOYD. That is another item; yes, sir.

Senator POPE. How much was included in the Budget for this item, do you know?

Mr. BOYD. $15,000, which is the same as for the past 2 years.
Senator POPE. How much was allowed by the House?

Mr. BOYD. $15,000.

Senator TOWNSEND. Are you asking for an increase?

Mr. POPE. I am, Senator.

Senator DUFFY. You say you cooperate with other agencies. What is the mechanics of that cooperation? Do you furnish some equipment or do you give advice as to what is to be done, or what do you do? Mr. BOYD. There are various State agencies such as the State engineers, the State agricultural college, and irrigation companies who, before we came into the picture, did a certain amount of this survey work for their own information. Now, our $15,000 is sufficient only to enable us to coordinate these snow surveys that are going on. We furnish them with standard instruments and equipment, and we try to organize the work so that it is on a comparable basis and all of equal accuracy.

Senator DUFFY. It is really a coordination work?

Mr. BOYD. That is all we are able to do with the money we now have available.

Senator POPE. How many stations do you have now, Mr. Boyd? Mr. BOYD. Considering the cooperative agencies we have something over 500 stations.

Senator RUSSELL. Does this work have any permanent value in determining what will be the probable snow fall or is it necessary to make the survey to determine from year to year?

Mr. BOYD. Each year. The snow falls vary from 35 percent to 300 percent of the normal from one year to the next.

Senator RUSSELL. So the funds expended in any 1 year only have a value to the agricultural producer for the year for which they are expended?

Mr. BOYD. Except for the funds involved in the construction of

snow courses.

Senator BANKHEAD. Can you tell me what is considered a normal snow fall?

Mr. BOYD. It would depend entirely upon the particular area. Senator BANKHEAD. You have figures there showing the variations by percentages.

Senator SMITH. You get the average like you do the average for rainfall, do you not? You take a series of years and get the average over that series of years, and that is considered normal rainfall? Mr. BOYD. Yes.

Senator SMITH. That is the way the average rainfall is estimated in our State.

Senator TOWNSEND. How many stations did you say you have?
Mr. BOYD. We have something over 500 stations now.
Senator TOWNSEND. How are they taken care of now?

Mr. BOYD. They are financed in part by the States, by other Federal agencies, in part by the irrigation districts, and in part by private organizations.

Senator TOWNSEND. What is required in the way of labor for each = station?

Mr. BOYD. The stations which we need to establish, which we would like to establish, are those that are quite inaccessible. The ones that are in now are those that are close to the roads and were cheaply installed. The ones we need now are back in the high mountains where communication is hard to establish, where we have to build shelter cabins to protect the men who observe the snow depths in case they get caught in a storm.

Senator TOWNSEND. Perhaps you did not understand my question. What is required now in the way of labor for each station?

Mr. BOYD. After it is established?

Senator ToWNSEND. Yes.

Mr. BOYD. We send the men out, beginning about the first of January, once or twice a month, to go over each one of these courses and measure the depth and the water content of the snow at each one of the various courses.

Senator TOWNSEND. How many men are employed in doing this job? That is what I am trying to get at.

Mr. BOYD. It is all part-time work. Men may work only 3 days a month. Including the personnel employed by the cooperators, about 1,000 people are now engaged—that is, at various times, for short intervals-in making these snow surveys.

Senator TOWNSEND. What is their remuneration? What are they paid?

Mr. BOYD. We have one man in charge of the entire project whose salary is $3,800 a year. Then we have, in strategic locations, a few engineers who supervise the actual sampling, taking the snow samples on the courses. Most of that work is done by nontechnical people. Senator TOWNSEND. How are they selected-by the engineers in charge?

Mr. BOYD. They are generally people who are employed by the cooperators. They may be people employed by the power companies or by State agencies.

Senator TOWNSEND. Are they paid by the hour or by the day, part time?

Mr. BOYD. By the day.

Senator TOWNSEND. What is their remuneration?

Mr. BOYD. About $3 or $4 a day; something like that.

on

Senator POPE. Mr. Boyd, you say you have about 500 stations, and that they are located near the roads or at the most accessible points. You do not go up into the high mountains to make the surveys that ought to be made, and of course there are many places where there ought to be stations where there are none. In order to do that work adequately, for the information of the committee, how many stations should you have?

Mr. BOYD. The National Resources Committee has recommended that we have not less than 800 stations in order to cover all of the watersheds furnishing the principal sources of irrigation water supply. Senator POPE. And the $15,000 that you now have merely carries on the work as it is, without any opportunity for establishing additional stations?

Mr. BOYD. That is true.

Senator POPE. And of course you cannot meet the suggestions of the National Resources Board for an adequate snow survey on the $15,000?

Mr. BOYD. No, sir.

Senator RUSSELL. What are the States spending on this work?

Mr. BOYD. The total contribution we get from the States is mostly in labor-they furnish the men to go out and make these snow-survey measurements-will amount to about $3,500 per year from the States which are cooperating.

Senator DUFFY. What States are those?

(A pause.)

Senator POPE. Perhaps you remember them.

Senator RUSSELL. You know roughly in what States you have these 500 stations, do you not, Mr. Boyd?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir-California, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, and Wyoming.

Senator TOWNSEND. What is the cost of one of these stations?

Mr. BOYD. The average cost probably is around $150 per course for those already established; but for these courses which we need now, the cost will be greater, because of their inaccessibility, and the necessity of building cabins close to the course, for the safety of the men. Senator TOWNSEND. What would you figure to be the average cost of those you are now asking for, that you need?

Mr. BOYD. They will run $300, or in that neighborhood.
Senator POPE. And will be permanent?

Mr. BOYD. And will be permanent.

Senator RUSSELL. Is that all, Mr. Pope?

Senator POPE. I have no other matters this morning. I hope I am not imposing upon the committee. There is one small matter which I should like to take up for 5 or 10 minutes this afternoon with the Forestry people; but that concludes what I have to present at this time.

Senator RUSSELL. Mr. Boyd, Senator Capper, and several Members of the House of Representatives have matters which they desire to present, if you do not mind standing aside.

Senator POPE. I think we are through.

STATEMENT OF HON. ARTHUR CAPPER, A SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS

Senator RUSSELL. Senator Capper, we shall be glad to hear from

you now.

WIND EROSION

Senator CAPPER. Mr. Chairman, I appear here to ask the committee to retain three items that are now in the bill which are highly important to the farmers of Kansas and most of the Southwestern States. There has been some controversy about them in the House, but the House has approved them, and I am hoping there will be no difficulty about keeping them in the bill here.

One has to do with the problem of wind erosion. It begins in line 8 of page 95:

Provided further, That not to exceed $5,000,000 of the funds appropriated under section 2 of the Independent Offices Appropriation Act, 1937, is hereby made available, subject to the limitations prescribed therein, for compliances in the calendar year 1937 under the provisions of sections 7 to 17, inclusive, of the Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act, approved February 29, 1936And so forth.

We are interested in the matter from the standpoint of the problems of the "dust bowl" in our section, which has given us more trouble than any great disaster which has come along out there in years. We need all the help we can get. I desire to take just a moment to quote to you the appeal made by a meeting of the farmers of 25 of those counties in southwest Kansas that are most seriously affected.

In their statement they say:

Southwest Kansas is again faced with the serious problem of wind erosion. The health of the citizens of this area is in grave danger. Crops are either destroyed or in danger of destruction. Last year's soil-erosion program has been followed diligently, and the present condition exists through no fault of the people themselves, but through the fate of unfavorable weather. We realize that some action or plan must be followed whereby we may enter into another year prepared for dry weather regardless of the actual conditions, whether wet or dry.

They propose a program of listing.

Senator RUSSELL. I may say to you, Senator, that on yesterday the officials of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration testified in regard to this item, and testified that this appropriation was needed to pay additional soil-conservation benefits to the farmers in the "dust bowl" who complied with the additional practice of listing the land.

Senator CAPPER. Yes, sir. These farmers, at their meeting, thought $10,000,000 was necessary; but we shall be content if we retain the $5,000,000, which, as I say, is of the highest importance.

HARD WINTER WHEAT LABORATORY

Another item in which we are interested is on page 35 of the bill as it passed the House. It undertakes to set up a wheat laboratory for experimentation in improvement of the milling and baking qualities of hard or red winter wheat. We have a laboratory of that sort approved by Congress a year ago, I think, by the last Congress, at Wooster, Ohio, for the soft red winter wheat, and it has been very successful and very useful. The States that are growing hard winter wheat think it would be of very great benefit to them.

This statement comes to me from the Kansas State Agricultural College. I will read just a paragraph of it:

In the Southwest hard winter wheat region, comprising the States of Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, and Kansas, only two States have facilities for testing the quality of wheats grown; namely, Kansas and Nebraska. The latter has much more limited facilities than Kansas. In the spring Wheat Belt, the States of Minnesota, North Dakota, and Montana have well-equipped laboratories. Canada, the largest producer of spring wheat, has probably the best equipped wheat-testing laboratory in the world. The hard red winter wheats, according to estimates of the United States Department of Agriculture, comprise 44 percent of all the wheats grown in the United States, the hard red spring wheats 18 percent, and the soft red winter wheat 20 percent. The work done by the laboratory established for the Southwest region would not supplant the work now done either at the Kansas and Nebraska agricultural experiment stations or in the United States Department of Agriculture, but rather would supplement the work of these laboratories, and do the work on a scale that will more adequately meet the needs of the hard red winter wheat-growing areas of the Southwest.

We only ask for an appropriation of $15,000. As I say, they have it in the East for the help of the soft winter wheat, and it has been proven that it is a very practical move on the part of the Government; so we are hoping that item will be retained. It has not been in any previous agricultural appropriation bill.

Senator RUSSELL. This item was not estimated by the Budget, either; was it, Senator?

Senator CAPPER. I am not sure.

Senator RUSSELL. I think the House added this amendment. I do not think they had any Budget estimate for it.

Senator CAPPER. But the House committee seemed to be very strong for it.

DRY-LAND EXPERIMENT STATIONS

The other item is on page 36 of the bill that I have, with respect to the dry-land experiment stations, an item of $40,000.

There has been some fear out in our part of the country that that item is to be taken out. It was discussed quite fully in the House committee, and on the showing made there it was retained.

I have here a short statement from Dr. Wolf, the president of the Kansas State Farm Bureau, which says:

The Agricultural Planning Committee of northwestern Kansas, representing seven different counties and a number of citizens from that part of the State, have manifested deep concern in connection with the reduction of $40,000 of the budget submitted to Congress for the support of the Division of Dry Land Agriculture carried on at the Colby and Garden City stations. If this reduction is permitted to prevail, it will result in the discontinuance of these important projects July 1.

The information derived and accumulated during the 12 years that this work has been carried on has proved its value and the desirability of its being continued. As a result of the work done, new and improved methods of dry-land)