Report to lie upon the Table.

NEW BILL.

FIRE INQUESTS BILL. "To provide for the holding of Fire Inquests," presented by Sir Henry Cotton; supported by Sir William Holland, Mr. Starkey, Mr. Lehmann, Mr. Yoxall, and Mr. Richardson; to be read a second time upon Friday 1st May, and to be printed. [Bill 183.]

IRISH UNIVERSITIES.

SELECTION (STANDING COMMITTEES.) has been suggested that Mr. Bryce was Sir WILLIAM BRAMPTON GURDON re- hardly justified in taking this course, that ported from the Committee of Selection; he was doing something which added That they had discharged the following quite unnecessarily to the burden of his Members from Standing Committee A. successor. Mr. Bryce was fully justified Mr. Solicitor-General for Ireland and Dr. in doing what he did. He had acquainted Shipman (in respect of the Housing of his colleagues with the nature and charthe Working Classes (Ireland) Bill); and acter of his proposals, and he had asked had appointed in substitution (in respect and obtained my permission to receive of the Housing of the Working Classes and address the deputation. He be(Ireland) Bill); Mr. Russell and Sir lieved, and I believed, and for the matter George White. of that I still believe, that it was desirable and helpful that he before leaving Dublin for good should publicly place on record what his plan was and the measurethe very large measure-of support which that plan had undoubtedly received. But the absent are always in the wrong. Mr. Bryce is now absent in Washington busily, and as I think the House will agree, nobly, occupied in removing one by one all possible causes of dispute between ourselves and the United States, and I am sure no one would wish that he should be exposed to any criticism in this House which he really does not deserve, and to which he cannot reply. Mr. Bryce left Dublin for Washington; and I left Whitehall for Dublin. When the Prime Minister, much to my dismay and amazement, for the thought of going to Ireland had never entered my mind, asked me whether I was willing to go there, I, with that frankness which the Prime Minister, exhibiting always himself, is entitled to expect from others, told him that, were it not for the hope of being able to deal with this University question, nothing could induce me to make myself responsible for a single week for the government of Ireland. I had the courage to believe that this hope of mine was not groundless; and in pursuit of it I am willing to admit I crossed to Dublin. This University question is not a sentimental question. I disclaim altogether the notion of being a man of sentiment. I am nothing of the kind. The proper provision of higher education in Ireland, cheap, popular, and good-above all good-is, in my judgment and the judgment of everyone who has given attention to the subject, a vital necessity. I thought so before I took up the office of Chief Secretary, and every hour I have been in it, every deputation I have received, every resolution I have read and torn up, all the experience I have

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. BIRRELL, Bristol, N.), in asking leave to introduce a Bill to make further provision with respect to University Education in Ireland said: In describing the main and salient features of a long-promised, painfully delayed, and much misunderstood measure, I think I may safely promise to be reasonably brief. I pray I may be intelligible, and if heaven comes to my aid even businesslike. At all events no accents of party will mar the dignity of my theme, and I will promise to be as dull as I can. I have only one preliminary observation to make, but I must make it in bare justice to my old friend, former colleague, and immediate predecessor in the office I hold. Mr. Bryce has been exposed to a certain amount of acidulated criticism because, on the eve of his departure for Washington, he, being still Chief Secretary and knowing who his successor was to be, thought fit in Dublin in answer to an important northern deputation to give the outlines of the University measure which the Government then hoped in a short time to be able to introduce to the notice of the House. It

her gardens, her proud memories in science, in literature, and in mathematics. Among its alumni are lawyers, doctors, parsons, mostly of the Protestant persuasion, all the world over, and I do not suppose there is in this House a man, I will not say who is happy enough, but who has not at one time or another in his life been preached to, prescribed for, or a worse and more cruel fate than that, cross-examined as to character by some member of Trinity College, Dublin. This great foundation is not only splendidly constituted, but also splendidly endowed. Her revenues from what may be fairly called public sources have been estimated at exceeding £50,000

gained-and it has been by no means library with its priceless manuscripts, inconsiderable-has intensified my conviction that Ireland not only needs itto tell the truth, we all need it, this House, as much as any other assembly of men, needs it but what Ireland eagerly needs and demands is good teaching and mental discipline. In things material, in things necessary for the defence of our island home, we all aim at being at least twice as strong at sea as any two foreign nations. I only wish we were equally bent on being half as intelligent on land. If hon. Members during their short Easter holiday would take the opportunity to visit Strasburg-a place which evokes many bitter, black memories, associated as it is, and has been for centuries past, with war and a double aggression-they a year. The generosity of her sons, by would see what the people of Germany are doing for the people of Alsace; and I think they would discover that, after all, foreign Universities may do this country, during every hour of every day of the academic year, a considerable amount of injury by way of competition. Something has been done in England, Scotland, and Wales to supply this undoubted want. A great number-I think, ten-of teaching Universities have of recent years sprung up among our great and murky towns-Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, and last, but by no means least, Birmingham, are now being associated in the minds of their younger citizens, not merely with docks and warehouses, not merely with shops and factories, least of all with gaols, lunatic asylums, and workhouses, but nobler structures from which are streaming forth the inspiring traditions, the ever-in this matter of religious tests, at all strengthening traditions, of University life events, to be in the van of progress. and training. Ireland must not be left out. Roman Catholics were admitted to her What is the present provision for uni- degrees in 1793. It is, perhaps, a little versity education in Ireland? There remarkable that in a Roman Catholic are two Universities in Ireland, one country Roman Catholics should not founded by Queen Elizabeth, and the have been admitted to the only University other founded by Queen Victoria-two in that country until more than 200 famous women, but separated by a years after its foundation; but in these long distance of time. The elder founda- matters it does not do to be too particular, tion is, of course, the University of and so far as the cash emoluments are Dublin, so inextricably entangled with concerned, everybody has been admitted its one College of Trinity as to become to them in Trinity without any regard known throughout the world as Trinity to creed or religious opinions since 1873; College, Dublin. Everybody knows and in this respect, although the dates Trinity College, Dublin, her imposing are rather remarkable, Trinity contrasts i site-one of the noblest in Europe favourably with Oxford and Cambridge. her magnificent buildings, her famous With justice or without, Trinity College

private bequests and otherwise, have greatly added to her wealth, and the fees of her numerous students are no more than an increment of her income. It has been calculated that her income from all sources does not fall far short of £90,000 a year. It has been sometimes said that she is the richest college or University in our Empire; but this is not the case, for Edinburgh, "mine own romantic town," as Scott called it, has an annual revenue of £117,000 a year, and her capital resources have been lately calculated at £750,000, which leaves out of account all her magnificent buildings, splendid medical school, McEwan Hall, and all things of that kind. But though Trinity College, Dublin, is not so wealthy as Edinburgh, she is still comfortably off. As Universities go, Trinity, Dublin, must be pronounced

remains what she was from the first, degrees that University confers, who a great, proud, and historical Protestant does teach the students who only present institution. She has to-day some themselves to its walls in order to prothousand students, of whom a hundred ceed to further degrees? These young or thereabouts are Roman Catholics. men and women are taught at one or The number of Presbyterians is even other of four colleges, at Magee College, less, for the indisposition of Presbyterians or private establishments, and in some to come to Trinity is even more marked cases, not many, by solitary work. The than that of the Roman Catholics. She bulk of the students who avail themgives her degrees to women, whom, selves of the Royal University are however, she admits on merely passing educated at these private establisha written examination, without regard ments or by solitary studies; the majority to residence, except so far as that is of them do not proceed from the colleges necessary for the purposes of examination. I have referred to. These four colleges Ireland's other University-the Royal are the three Queen's Colleges at Belfast, University, founded in 1879, replaced Cork, and Galway, and the Catholic Queen's, established in 1850. The Royal University College in Dublin, so long and University is not, strictly speaking, a so honourably associated with the name University at all, for she teaches nothing. of Dr. Delany, and with which the She merely examines, mainly, except famous medical college in Cecilia Street in the medical schools, by written ques- is closely allied. It may be said to tions, all who proffer themselves for form a medical faculty and a medical that purpose, and she awards those college under the headship of Dr. Delany. who obtain a sufficient number of marks This Royal University, mere examining in these examinations a degree. She body as she is, has done good work in Irehas no professors or teachers of her land. She has stimulated ambition by own; she needs none. An army of placing degrees within the reach of examiners serves her turn. Her buildings thousands who never could have gone are never crowded with students, save to Trinity for half a dozen good reasons. for the purpose of being examined; The standard of examinations, parher laboratories are empty save during ticularly in her honours subjects, has the examination period; people come been maintained at a high standard. to the Royal University not to learn, Those who have obtained a degree in but to answer questions. The Royal honours at the Royal University have University has an annual income of got something of which they may well £20,000 a year; but my old friend be proud. There are those, I know, who "the predominant partner must not sneer at examinations. I am not one too readily take credit to himself for of them. I admit I have always stood in generosity in this respect towards poor dread of them. I think the House Ireland, because the whole of this hates quotations, fond as I am of them £20,000 comes from the Irish Church myself; but in reading over again Sir Fund. What Ireland would be, or William Hamilton's "Discussions " where I should be, without this Church I came across a famous passage from the Fund I dare not think. It is indeed great scholar Melancthon on the subject a horn filled with plenty. It took over of examinations. I think I will not read in 1869, and I hope the House will bear it, but I will refer anybody to page 768 this in mind, the £26,000 a year which of Sir William Hamilton's book. I will up to that date appeared annually on read a little bit of itour Votes for the maintenance of Maynooth. The £26,000 a year was then capitalised at fourteen years' purchase, and the sum-a very large sum-was a grant from the Irish Church Fund. That was Mr. Gladstone's bargain, and I quite agree with what was said yesterday, that that indeed was the day of grants. If this Royal University does not teach, who does prepare for the

"Examination, therefore, may be called the life of studies, without which reading, and even meditation, is dead. Against prejudice and error there is no surer antidote than examination; for by this the intellect is explored, its wants detected and supplied, its faults and failings corrected. Examination likewise fosters facility of expression, counteracts perturbation and confusion, inures to coolness and promptitude of thought. Not less useful is examinat on in restraining the course of youthful study within legitimate boundaries. Nothing is more

hurtful, as nothing is more common, than vain and tumultuary reading, which inflates with the persuasion without conferring the reality of erudition. Wherefore, if examination brought no other advantage than that it counteracts the two greatest pests of education, found indeed usually combined, sloth, to wit, and arrogance, for this reason alone should examination be cherished in our Universities. Against sloth there is no goad sharper or more efficacious than examination; and as to arrogance, examination is the very school of humility and improvement."

Perhaps that is the reason why I have always shunned examination.

"By no other discipline is a soaring conceit so effectually taken down, and this is the reason why self-satisfied preter ders ever fly examination, whilst those who think less of the little that they know than of the much they know not, resort to it as the most efficacious means of improvement."

have no doubt they were excellent, but in Cork and Galway they have entirely failed to fulfil that intention, for the simple reason that no pains whatever seem to have been taken to find out what Irishmen want. You may in Ireland sometimes succeed in sending a man to prison against his will, but never to college. But there are the colleges, very handsome buildings. The Belfast College-I do not know whether there was a scandal or not-it is said, was meant for Cork and the Cork College for Belfast. I do not know that it really matters much now. They are there, and they were paid for by Parliament. At this present moment this college at Belfast costs the Exchequer on an average of the last five years, because the amount varies a little according to the expense of repairs and the like, £13,101; Cork, £11,252; Galway, £10,586; a total of £34,939. When you have added to that certain extra payments from time to time you find that the total cost of these three colleges annually on the average of the last five years, amounts to £36,500. The number of students in these colleges to-day is as follows: at Belfast, 390; at Cork, 261; and at Galway, 111-in all, 762. But it is very important to bear in mind that these figures were much larger at the date of the determination of the old Queen's University. The old Queen's University only gave its degrees to students who had attended the colleges, and, therefore, it kept out from its examination those external bodies, private establishments who now send up the greater half of the personsto be examined. Before the date or at the date of the determination of the Queen's University, Belfast, instead of having as now, only 390 students, had 508 students. Cork instead of having only 261 students had 327, and Galway instead of having only 111 students had 208. In all in these days there were 1,043 students at the three colleges, whereas now there are only 762. there remains to be considered what I call Dr. Delany's College, the Catholic University College in Dublin, and the Medical School. What public money do they get? Well, being frankly Roman Catholic institutions with a Jesuit at the head, of course it is not to be supposed that they can have one penny of public

What I would ask the House to bear in mind is that the Universities which Melancthon had in mind when he wrote what I have just quoted were teaching Universities, and the examinations which he so greatly, and I think so justly valued, were conducted under the guidance and control, though not, I believe, under the sole guidance and control, of the professors and teachers of the Universities themselves, and they were directed to test minutely discipline and training, and not merely verbal memory or a glib repetition of text books. Between this examining University and the four colleges I have named at Belfast, Cork, Galway, and Dr. Delany's College in Dublin there is no avowed connection. It just so happens that if they want degrees, as most of them do, they come to the Royal University to get them, as in Ireland they have nowhere else to go to. It remains to ask how these four colleges are provided. The history of the three Queen's Colleges at Belfast, Cork, and Galway is a well-known history. It has been made a subject of constant research, and I would certainly advise anybody who wishes to get a clear history of these University proceedings in Ireland to study at least the first few pages of the final Report of what is called the Robertson Commission. I do not know who wrote that Report, but it is certainly a masterpiece of lucid explanation; and there you will find all you need know upon these questions. These three colleges were founded by Sir Robert Peel in 1845. In intention I

Now

money. Yet without some assistance | nor are the classes sufficiently well athow could they have kept going all these tended to establish Cork with a Uniyears even in their present half-starved versity of her own. Galway, in which and ill-conditioned state? The answer I feel great interest, is in a weaker position is that by arrangement outside this than Cork, and not perhaps so well House they are paid some £7,000 a year out situated for the purpose. Therefore some of the £20,000 allotted as the endowment federation of these outlving colleges is of the Royal University. The Royal absolutely necessary. The question is: University gets £20,000 a year from the Are you going to federate as much or as Irish Church Fund, and about one-half little as possible? That is where I of this sum is annually absorbed in admit the present proposals of the Govmaintenance and upkeep of the Univer- ernment do undoubtedly come into sity, and the very heavy cost of the collision with Mr. Bryce's scheme, but it examination, whilst the other half is spent is only fair to remember that Mr. Bryce's on the endowment and establishment of scheme has been greatly criticised since certain fellowships. The whole history he formulated it, whilst he has not been of these fellowships will be found on in a position to attend here and the page 6 of Lord Robertson's Commission force of these criticisms he has not been Report. There are about thirty-nine or able to appreciate. The big federal forty of these fellowships, each of which scheme which the Government have is £400 a year. They are distributed rejected was to include in one University amongst the colleges at Belfast, Cork and Belfast in the north, Cork in the south, Galway and the Magee College. These Galway (as an affiliated college it is true) fellowships are assigned and allotted to in the west, and Trinity College, Dublin, the professors at the several colleges. In with her 300 years behind her, and a new the case of Belfast, Cork and Galway college in Dublin. All these colleges colleges, the professor does not get the were to be the colleges of one university whole £400 a year, because he has to under one federal centre. Thus you bring into the account the salary at the would get a number of states, each colleges, but the sum is made up. Dr. with its own code of state rights which Delany's College has something like would be most jealously guarded and fifteen or sixteen fellowships, and there subject to the federal control of a senate, is one at the Magee College, and they meeting, I suppose, in Dublin. When receive the £400 a year. Consequently, I began to go down into the depths of as a matter of fact, the Roman Catholic the problem in Ireland I found that University College and the Medica! this big federation scheme outside Trinity School do receive out of this £20,000 en- College altogether was very unpopular. dowment something a little under £7,000 The three Queen's Colleges, all of which as being their share, and these fellowship I visited, and which were to be states in monies. The upshot of all this is that at the the new federation, were strongly oppresent moment the Exchequer finds the posed to the scheme. "A sprawling sum of £36,500 a year for the maintenance University," as it was rather rudely and upkeep of the three Queen's Colleges. called, can never be a popular Unievrsity. The Royal University College gets £20,000 In these matters of Universities local out of the Irish Church Fund and the patriotism, the genius loci as it is called, Roman Catholic University College and plays, and must play, a great part. State Medical School gets £7,000 a year out of that rights, federal rights, the rights of the £20,000 by way of indirect endowment. colleges to govern themselves, so far That being the provision for higher as is consistent with their being members education in Ireland-assuming reform of a federal body, must give rise to much to be necessary, and all the Commissions, trouble and future difficulty. State rights. Reports and evidence put that, I think, and federal rights give rise to wars among beyond the possibility of doubt-there human forces, and in Universities, alare only two ways of handling this pro- though there is no bloodshed, they give blem. Some federation is unfortunately rise to wars of pamphlets and bitterness, necessary. Cork College I hope has a and, apart from bloodshed, the one kind great future before it. I do not believe of quarrel is as bad as the other. No she is at the present time strong enough quarrels are so fierce as those begotten