parents could be furnished with a book when the Bill now before the House which would show the schools the child of Commons will reach your Lordships' had attended during the wanderings, House. and the attendances made. Of course,

machinery used in the propulsion of thinks it very desirable-that is to say, the ship; (2) Repairs to armament, the noble Lord really presses for itincluding all gun-mountings, torpedoes, but it will involve a very large amount and machinery connected with them; (3) of research which my noble friend, if Alterations in design, such as making possible, would like to spare his staff, cooling chambers, fresh ventilators, or whom he considers very much oversupplying and fitting new apparatus of worked. My noble friend does not any description; also a Return of the know how he could obtain the details with number of days that our battleships and regard to the length of time that the first class cruisers launched since 1st great liners mentioned in the Question January, 1898, have been unavailable are kept under repair from time to time, while undergoing repair during the last and he considers that it is against the two years; and in addition to these interests of the service that the weight Returns, for purposes of comparison, if allowed for indicated horse-power should the information is obtainable, a Return be publicly disclosed. My noble friend of the number of days that twenty or has asked me to say that even the thirty of the best-known liners in our modified amount of information which mercantile marine have been unavailable he is able to give will take some little for the same reason during the last two time to produce. years; and lastly, the weight allowed for indicated horse-power for all the vessels named in the above Return.

THE EARL OF CREWE: My Lords, my noble friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has been called away on an engagement connected with his Department, and he has, therefore, asked me to make the reply which he would have given to the noble and gallant Lord's Question. He says that he is anxious to give the noble Lord as much of the Return asked for as is possible, but he cannot give it exactly in the form in which it is asked for by the noble Lord My noble friend assents to Paragraph 1, but he is only able to give the figures for 1905-1906, and 1906-1907, those for 1907-1908 not yet being available. As regards Paragraph 2, my noble friend says that the form in which the ordnance accounts of the Admiralty are framed differs from that of the dockyard accounts and for service reasons he does not feel justified in giving information with regard to repairs to armament. He will be happy to give the information requested in Paragraph 3.

LORD about Paragraph 1?

ELLENBOROUGH : What

THE EARL OF CREWE: My noble friend agrees to that, with limitations. He cannot agree to No. 2, but he agrees to No. 3. As regards the last paragraph, my noble friend says he can give the information asked for if the noble Lord

LORD ELLENBOROUGH : I am sorry to give the officials at the Admiralty additional trouble, but the Admiralty have been greatly attacked on the subject of repairs, sometimes justly and sometimes unjustly, and if these figures were given it might set the matter at rest. Therefore, I press for the details as to the number of days on which vessels were undergoing repairs. My reason for asking for the weight allowed for indicated horse-power, was that I believe the Admiralty, as a rule, have not allowed sufficient weight for indicated horse-power, and that is the reason why such a large proportion of our ships are kept under repair.

TERRITORIAL ARMY ADMINISTRA-
TION.

*LORD HARRIS: My Lords, I rise to ask His Majesty's Government whether they will consider the possibility of amending the new Regulations for the Territorial Army in the case of those regiments the recruiting areas of which lie in more than one county, with a view to alleviating the extreme inconvenience to which such regiments are put. This question refers to very few regiments, but they feel that they are suffering under a considerable grievance. The scheme of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War is that the Territorial regiments in a county should be brought under the County Association, and it is conceivable

*LORD HARRIS: I regret that my Question has been misunderstood. The cases I refer to are those of regiments coming under various counties for administration. Perhaps the noble Earl will look into that point.

THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTH: I now see what is in the mind of the noble Lord, and will inquire into it.

that the administration of their affairs overcome by the mutual good feeling will be no more complicated than they of the Associations, whom, in matters were under the War Office. But there of this kind, we expect to be able to come are a few regiments in the extraordinary to some arrangement and unfortunate position of being under four or five counties, and those of your Lordships who have had experience of communicating with Government Departments will, I am sure, realise the eonfusion that will be caused thereby, for these unfortunate regiments will have to apply in all matters of finance, administration, etc., to each of these County Associations. Finding it difficult to deal with the cases of those regiments which recruit over several counties the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State has apparently left it to the regiments and to the County Associations themselves to get out of the difficulty as best they can. I suggest that it is the business of the War Office to get the regiments out of this dilemma, and that it would not be difficult for the War Office to devise a scheme by which the colonels of such regiments might have to do with only one authority. I may add that this is not a personal grievance of my own. I have been asked to put the Question on behalf of another commanding officer.

OF

THE UNDER SECRETARY STATE FOR WAR (The Earl of PORTSMOUTH): My Lords, I regret that the noble Lord has not informed me what are the particular cases to which he

refers.

TERRITORIAL ARTILLERY.

THE EARL OF ERROLL: My Lords, I rise to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War what is the estimated cost of the 196 batteries it is proposed to raise for the Territorial Army, supposing the ranks are all full, including the hire of the horses for fifteen days training, cost of gun sheds, harness, ammunition for practice, and generally for the administration and training of the artillery; also the proportion due for the expenses of the County Associations; and whether he can also state the whole annual cost of a battery of Regular field artillery on the higher and lower establishment respectively. I understand that there will be a debate on Monday, initiated by Lord Denbigh, into the whole question of the Territorial artillery, and I cannot help thinking that it will be of great advantage to your Lordships that we should possess the information for which I am asking before that debate takes place. The noble and gallant THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTH: I Field-Marshal, Lord Roberts, told us understood the Question to refer to another matter-namely, the condition of those counties which practically adjoin London. Some men domiciled in Kent, Surrey, and Essex will, no doubt, want to join the London regiments, but I am afraid we cannot depart from the general principle established in the Act, that the county of which the Lord-Lieutenant should be the head should be the recruiting area for the different County Associations. No doubt in the neighbourhood of London some difficulties may arise, but these we trust will be

*LORD HARRIS: They are perfectly well-known. The Marquess of Tullibardine's regiment, for instance, recruits over four or five counties.

the other day that imperfectly trained artillery were absolutely useless in war and liable to become a danger. After that statement from so high an authority it would be only prudent to consider whether it would not be preferable to have a smaller number of Regular and very highly trained artillery in the place of a larger number of imperfectly trained gunners. It is an acknowledged principle on the Continent of Europe that the less trained the infantry the more important it is that the artillery should be very highly trained. I have

put down the Question as to the cost of a Regular battery because I think it is important that we should have some idea how the cost compares with that of a Territorial battery, with a view to seeing whether we cannot secure fewer highly trained Regular artillery for the same price that we should get this larger number of less perfectly trained Territorial artillery.

THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTH: My Lords, as we shall be debating the general question of the artillery on Monday, I hope my noble friend will excuse me from entering into the various matters to which he has referred in putting his Question. I am glad to be able to give him the information for which he asks, subject to one or two reservations. The total number of batteries to be raised is 182, not 196 as stated in the Question. I do not know exactly how my noble

THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTH: That will be the annual cost when they are a going concern.

House adjourned at ten minutes past Six o'clock, till Tomorrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Wednesday, 1st April, 1908.

The House met at a quarter before Three of the Clock.

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.

Dartford Gas Bill,-As amended, considered; to be read the third time.

Dublin and Central Ireland Electric

friend arrived at the number of 196, but Power Bill.-Reported [Preamble not

Report to lie upon the Table.

PRIVATE BILLS (GROUP D).
MR. LUKE WHITE reported from the
Committee on Group D of Private Bills;
That, for the convenience of parties, the
Committee had adjourned till Monday
next, at half-past Eleven of the clock.
Report to lie upon the Table.

I think it is possibly a miscalculation proved]. arising from reckoning three batteries. instead of two to a brigade of howitzers. The number of field and howitzer batteries to be raised for the Territorial Force is 148, the annual cost of which will be about £350,000, which includes the expenses of the County Associations. I am afraid I cannot give the noble Earl any accurate estimate as to the proportion due for the expenses of the Associations, as the Associations administer other units. The other batteries to be raised are fourteen horse, and twenty heavy batteries. The grants for these That they have passed a Bill, intituled, cover their ammunition columns and" An Act to alter the constitution of the not comparable with the figures Ashton-under-Lyne, for batteries of field artillery. As to the Question whether I can also state the whole annual cost of a battery of regular field artillery on the higher and lower establishments, respectively, I have to say that the annual cost of a Regular field battery battery on the higher establishment of 163, all ranks, is £15,000, and on the lower establishment of 132, all ranks, £12,000.

THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: Is any allowance made in the £350,000 for the cost of arming the batteries originally, or is that what they are going to cost when they are a going concern?

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

Stalybridge, and Dukinfield (District) Waterworks Joint Committee, and to make the Audenshaw Urban District Council a combining authority; and to make further and better provision with regard to the improvement, health, local government, and finance of the urban district of Audenshaw; and for other purposes." [Audenshaw Urban District Council Bill [Lords].

Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to empower the Corporation of Merthyr Tydfil to construct street works and to provide recreation grounds; and to make further and better provision with regard to the health, improvement, and

good government of the borough; and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for other purposes." [Merthyr Tydfil for Private Bills. Corporation Bill [Lords].

Also, a Bill, intituled "An Act to authorise the Llanelly Gaslight Company to raise additional capital; and for other purposes." [Llanelly Gas Bill [Lords].

PETITIONS.

ELEMENTARY EDUCATION (ENGLAND
AND WALES) BILL.

Petitions in favour: From Glamor

Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confer further powers upon the Taff Vale Railway Company with respect to gan; and Wednesbury; to lie upon

their Penarth Harbour and Dock undertaking; and for other purposes." [Taff Vale Railway Bill [Lords].

the Table.

LICENSED PREMISES (EXCLUSION OF
CHILDREN).

Petitions for legislation: From Lon

Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to empower the Fishguard and Rosslare don; and Staincliffe; to lie upon the Railways and Harbours Company to Table. construct harbour works at Fishguard in substitution for certain authorised harbour works and railways in connection therewith; and for other purposes." [Fishguard and Rosslare Railways and Harbours Bill [Lords].

LICENSING BILL.

Petitions against: From Bath; Bradford (three); Chard, Yeovil and other places; Coate; Devizes; Elsecar; Essex; Hoyland (two); Newhill; Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to Tilshead; Tonbridge; Wath-on-Dearne authorise the Urban District Council (four); West Lavington; West Melton of Skegness to purchase the undertaking (nine); Wickwar; and Winchester; of the Skegness Water Company; and to lie upon the Table.

to make further and better provisions in regard to the health, local government, and improvement of the district; and for other purposes." [Skegness Urban District Council Bill [Lords].

LICENSING BILL.

Eccles

Halifax

Petitions in favour: From Aberdare ; Aberdeen ; Ashton under Lyne; Aspatria; Bodmin; Bolton; Brighouse; Also, a Bill, intituled, " An Act to pro- Carlisle; Dudley; Dundee ; vide for the transfer of the undertaking (two); Elstree; Glamorgan; Gosforth of the Ocean Marine Insurance Company on Tyne; Great Yarmouth; Limited, to the North British and Mer- (four); Hampstead; Ilford; Kiddercantile Insurance Company; to increase minster; Lachford; Lewannick; the capital of, and to amend the Acts Merthyr Tydfil (four); Middleton ; relating to the latter Company; and for Mountcorrel; Nottingham; Oakenshaw other purposes." [North British and (two); Padiham; Paisley (two); Mercantile Insurance Company Bill Palmer's Ville; Patricroft (four); [Lords]. Pendleton; Pontypool; Radcliffe;

And, also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act Royton; Scotswood; Seaton Burn; to confer further powers upon the Sheffield; Shrewsbury; Southport ; Pontypridd Waterworks Company; and South Wigston; Sowerby; Truro ; Wednesbury; Willom; for other purposes." [Pontypridd Water Wallsend ; Bill [Lords]. Willington Quay; and Winton; to lie upon the Table.

Audenshaw Urban District Council Bill [Lords]; Merthyr Tydfil Corporation Bill [Lords]; Llanelly Gas Bill [Lords]; Taff Vale Railway Bill [Lords]; Fishguard and Rosslare Railways and

LIQUOR TRAFFIC (LOCAL OPTION) (SCOTLAND) BILL.

Petition from Eaglesfield, in favour;

Harbours Bill [Lords]; Skegness Urban to lie upon the Table.

District Council Bill [Lords]; North

British and Mercantile Insurance Com- MORAY FIRTH (ILLEGAL TRAWLING). pany Bill [Lords]; Pontypridd Water Petition from Cromarty, for preven Bill [Lords].-Read the first time; and tion; to lie upon the Table.