is not trivial, I would, in general, object to the straightening. I would want it cut apart and new pieces added.

Mr. Lindsay-I was going to comment on the absence of any instruction requiring the inspector to look out for damage to new members, either in the unloading or the erection. I do not see that there is anything of that kind here. I think another point to be guarded against in the unloading and storing of material is to prevent the accumulation of water on members.

The President:-Have you any motion to make, or will we ask the Committee to take these matters under consideration for any changes in the future?

Mr. Lindsay--I would like to add an instruction to avoid the storing of material in such a manner that water will accumulate on the members. Rule 14 seems to cover the other point.

Mr. Himes-I would say, in regard to these additions and changes, that the Committee understands very well that many things have not been said that might be said, and we feel quite certain that we could add very largely to the number of instructions that have been printed and still leave some things unsaid. It has been the thought of the Committee that perhaps we had said enough to justify its publication in the Manual. We are not averse to adding some of these clauses which have been mentioned. This one by Mr. Lindsay has much merit. The matter which it would seem to me important for the Association to decide is whether they shall publish any portion of this in the Manual, or whether we shall hold it up for another year and enlarge upon it.

Mr. A. F. Robinson:-It is a large proposition, to get up an acceptable set of specifications to cover the points under discussion. These specifications show that the Committee has done admirable work thus far. I think there are many points which have not been properly covered, or could be improved upon. I, therefore, move you, sir, that these specifications be accepted as tentative, or that the work be referred back to the Committee for a report another year. In view of the importance of these specifications, we ought to have them put in the very best shape possible. I think the specifications as now submitted can be materially reduced as to size or as to space occupied and still express all that is necessary. I, therefore, move that the specifications--all three of them-be referred back to the Committee.

Mr. J. L. Campbell (El Paso Southwestern) :-Before that motion is acted upon I want to move as a suggestion to the Committee, or a disposition of the matter now, a reconsideration of the second paragraph of rule 28 under "instructions for the inspection of the fabrication of steel bridges," so as to read as follows: "Make sure that the specified accuracy of driving fits for bolts or keys and similar parts is attained." My reason for that is that this apparently, as now worded, is an authority to the inspector to determine the accuracy of the fit. I think the accuracy of the fit ought to be determined by the specifications.

Mr. George W. Kittredge (New York Central & Hudson River) :In reference to Mr. Robinson's motion, it seems to me that we had better have these instructions rather than have none, and it is entirely within the province of this Association, next year, or the year after, if they see fit, to change them. I, therefore, shall vote No on Mr. Robinson's motion.

(Motion lost.)

The President:-It is now in order to adopt these instructions as amended, for insertion in the Manual. Before putting the motion, however, the Committee desires to accept Mr. Robinson's suggestion, if you will allow a reconsideration in part in reference to paragraph 23, page 88, that it be omitted. Now, by action of the convention it was referred back to the Committee. They will consider it as omitted, and it will be taken up as one of the matters for future improvement. They have accepted that. If there is no objection, we will consider rule 23 as referred back to the Committee in the sense of rewriting it as an additional clause next year, but it will be entirely disregarded in this action of accepting the three sets of instructions for printing in the Manual. Those in favor of adopting these instructions for publication in the Manual, please signify by saying aye.

(Motion carried.)

The President:-The Committee is relieved, with the thanks of the Association.

DISCUSSION ON TRACK.

(For Report, see pp. 97-131.)

LIST OF SPEAKERS TAKING PART IN DISCUSSION ON TRACK.

The President:-The report of the Committee on Track will be presented by the Chairman, Mr. J. B. Jenkins, and the Chairman will outline the method to be pursued in considering the report.

Mr. J. B. Jenkins (Baltimore & Ohio) :-The Committee wishes to consider conclusion 2 first. It is found on page 130, Bulletin 152. The typical plans are found on the inset, immediately after page 131. I would move the adoption of this conclusion.

Mr. C. E. Lindsay (New York Central & Hudson River) :-The "bi!! of material" is really a "bill of timber." The Committee should use the term "timber" instead of the word "material."

The President:-The Committee will accept that.

(Motion carried.)

Mr. Jenkins:-Your Committee recommends for adoption and publication in the Manual, as desirable agencies to obtain a better class of section foremen (reads clauses a, b and c, page 130). I move the adoption and publication in the Manual of conclusion 3.

(Motion carried.)

Mr. Jenkins-Your Committee recommends for adoption and publication in the Manual the "Table of Functions of the Ten-Chord Spiral" submitted herewith, as supplementing and completing the table on pages 102-110 of the Manual, and superseding the table on page III. I move the adoption of conclusion 4.

(Motion carried.)

Mr. L. C. Fritch (Chicago Great Western):-I move the reconsideration of conclusion 3. On page 131 the Committee asks that conclusions 2 and 3 be reassigned them. That conclusion is hardly in shape to be published in the Manual.

Mr. Jenkins-The Committee do not recommend that conclusion 3 be reassigned, but subject 3. The subject is a very broad one, and wili keep the Committee busy for the next twenty years, I presume; consequently, we desire to continue the study. Conclusion 3, while it happens to be on the subject designated by the same number, is only one conclusion that we have reached in our early investigation on this subject. It is only an extremely small part of the subject that we have undertaken to study.

Mr. L. C. Fritch:-That was my reason for asking that it be reassigned. It hardly seemed to me to be fit matter to be put in the Manual.

Mr. Jenkins-The Committee has reached a conclusion in regard to desirable agencies to obtain a better class of section foremen. Subject 3 is "Economics in Track Labor." Conclusion 3 is a very small portion of the whole subject of economics in track labor. The Committee has reached the three conclusions (a), (b) and (c), given as conclusion 3, as a minor part of the subject of economics in track labor. We have barely scratched the subject.

The President:-The motion is to reconsider the action of the convention in adopting conclusion 3.

(Motion lost.)

Mr. Jenkins-Conclusion 5 does not in any way change the table itself or the meaning of the table, but simply makes clear what these dimensions refer to. If anyone takes the trouble to compute the table, he will find these distances refer to the theoretical point, and it should be clearly so stated in the heading. I move the adoption and publication in the Manual of this conclusion.

The President:-This is simply a correction of the Manual. (Motion carried.)

Mr. Jenkins-I would move the adoption and publication in the Manual of section (a) of conclusion 1, Tie-plates-general principles to be followed in the design. These general principles are to be found on page 98, Bulletin 152.

Mr. L. C. Fritch:-I would suggest that the headings of specifications be read.

Mr. C. A. Morse (Santa Fe):-Under the heading, "Tie-plates," I notice one clause, "They shall not be less than 5% of an inch thick along either edge of the base of the rail."

The President:-We will carry out the suggestion and read the heading of each section, and take this up when we reach it.

Mr. C. A. Morse:-It does not seem to me that we should include here the specification that tie-plates should not be less than 5% of an inch thick, for the reason that it is good practice on a great many roads to use tie-plates a half an inch thick. We have over forty million of them on the Santa Fe, and we have found no trouble with the halfinch thickness. The next clause covers all that is necessary, and this clause should be omitted.

Mr. Earl Stimson (Baltimore & Ohio) :-I move the third paragraph specifying 5%-in. thickness be stricken out and that it be considered that the thickness of the plate is covered by the next paragraph, for the reason mentioned by the preceding speaker, that there are comparatively few tie-plates now in use 5% of an inch thick. By specifying this unusual thickness, it condemns as bad practice the present thickness used on the majority of the roads.

Mr. G. J. Ray (Delaware, Lackawanna & Western) :-That conclusion was reached after a very thorough canvass by the Committee of what is being done, and the kind of tie-plates being used by the various roads. While it is a fact that a big majority of the tie-plates now

in use are less than 5% in. in thickness, we found very few people who were not perfectly willing to state that it is a mistake to use less than 58-in. plates under the edge of the base of the rail. You will notice the wording gives you permission to cut your tie-plate down by beveling at the end, or by reducing the thickness under the rail, but on the edge of the rail we insist it is right and good practice not to have the plate less than 5%-in. thick, and I think it is a mistake for the Association to go on record favoring anything thinner than 5%-in. The next paragraph merely relates to thicker plates, which must necessarily be used in certain places, where your plates are longer than they ordinarily would be, on account of the peculiar fastening which you might use or the width of the rail base.

Mr. C. A. Morse:-The gentleman says he made an investigation of the roads of the country and found the practice called for 5%-in. I would say I think the Santa Fe has more tie-plates than any other road in the country, as we have between forty and forty-five million at the present time. We have never had any of the half-inch in thickness that showed any sign of weakness. I think the Harriman Lines follow the same practice. Most of the western roads are using a softwood tie, which would develop the weakness in the half-inch tie-plate if it existed.

Mr. John G. Sullivan (Canadian Pacific) :—The function of tie-plates has changed in the last few years. I agree with the Committee that the function of the tie-plate at present is to distribute the load, and when they say that the length of the plates shall not be less than the safe bearing area divided by the width, why they have said all that is needed. If the road finds that half-inch tie-plates buckle and they figure out the bearing area, they should thicken them. We are using plates half an inch at one side and three-eighths at the other, and we are not having any trouble with buckling. I shall vote against the minimum of 5%-in. as being a waste of money, at least on some roads.

The President:-Those in favor of eliminating paragraph 3 entirely signify by saying aye.

(The paragraph was eliminated.)

Mr. L. C. Fritch:-I would ask if the Committee will insert "per square inch" on the first line of the table under "Physical Properties and Tests?"

The President:-The Committee will insert that, so that it will read, "55,000 lbs. per sq. in."

Mr. J. B. Jenkins:-I wish to announce that the Committee by letter-ballot amended the specification in regard to spike holes so as to read, "The spike holes must be clean cut, without burrs, and the plates must not be cracked or bent out of shape in punching the holes."

The Committee recognizes in the majority of cases it is best to punch the holes from the top, and that should be the general practice. but there are special cases where the holes should be punched from the bottom, where the punching cannot be successfully done from the top.

Mr. Lindsay-In connection with the section relating to the stamp