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working committee of the Association, but that the information for which the Committee asks from the railroads should be given cheerfully and promptly, and what information we send to the members of the Association should be carefully studied and transmitted to the heads of the railroads in which we are interested. A great deal of the information sent out by the National Conservation Congress is neglected and thrown aside when, as a matter of fact, to us who know what that information means, we feel it should be printed in box-car letters; and we ask when we send you information on this subject that you not only read it yourselves, but pass it to the heads of your roads, and ask them to think about it and help you and us in the conservation of natural resources.

Mr. McNab:-I move that the report presented by the Committee on Conservation of Natural Resources be received as a progress report. The President:-If there is no objection, that will be accepted as the sense of the meeting. The Committee is relieved, with the thanks of the Association,

DISCUSSION ON BALLAST.

(For Report, see pp. 144-168.)

LIST OF SPEAKERS TAKING PART IN DISCUSSION ON BALLAST.

The President:-The report of the Committee on Ballast will be presented by the Chairman, Mr. H. E. Hale.

Mr. H. E. Hale (Missouri Pacific) :-The Committee was asked as one of the questions submitted to it to report on proper depth of ballast of various kinds to insure uniform distribution of loads on roadway, conferring with Committee on Roadway.

The Committee wishes to recommend the test given on page 145. The Committee searched for reports of tests in periodicals without much success, not getting anything more than that we had already presented to the Association, and to get further information in line with the request from the Association we propose the test shown on page 145.

(Mr. Hale then read the proposed test, by paragraphs, as given on page 145.)

Mr. Hale: The conclusion which we offer in connection with these proposed tests is shown at the top of page 146, and reads as follows:

"Your Committee recommends that the above test be made under the direction and supervision of the Ballast Committee, and that the same be financed by the Association or some railroad or railroads. The location for the test to be arranged for by the Committee with a railroad that would be willing to have this test made in their main tracks under heavy, regular traffic."

The President:-This is a progress report, and is offered for information. The recommendation that funds be appropriated is a matter that will be handled by the Directors and we have reason to believe that it can be arranged in some way. The subject-matter of the several numbered paragraphs that have been referred to is a matter of information particularly to the railroad which will permit of the tests being made on their tracks, and we hope that one or more railroads will come forward and permit this, provided that funds are later secured in some way, and with this explanation the Chair thinks the convention will understand that this report is submitted as a matter of information as to the methods of procedure that this Committee proposes to follow.

Mr. John R. Leighty (Missouri Pacific):-I would call attention to the very short distances over which the various depths of ballast pro

posed is to extend. We all know that a bad spot in a track will grow like a bad spot anywhere else, and influences the condition of adjacent track. It seems to me if you take two rail lengths of track under one condition and compare them with the adjacent two rail lengths, such a comparison will not lead to any definite information. The condition of one section of two rail lengths will very materially influence the conditions that will be found on the adjacent two rail lengths, and it would be my suggestion in carrying out this experiment that the sections of track be made sufficiently long to make sure that the conditions existing on one section of track will not influence the conditions existing on an adjacent section of track, so that you will get a comparison which will really amount to something.

Mr. Hale: The next subject assigned to the Committee was to continue the study of physical tests of stone for ballast.

The Committee made further investigation as to the physical test of stone for ballast, but was unable to find anything of interest which the Committee thought the Association would be interested in. The Committee found one paper read at the Sixth Congress of the International Society for Testing Materials held in New York last September, which copied the tables of last year's Ballast report, and we could not get much additional information from that source.

In considering this subject the Committee feels that the recommended physical tests of stone for ballast are not well enough understood to be incorporated into specifications as yet, but they recommend for incorporation in the Manual the following note on page 146:

Note.-Attention is called to the physical tests of stone for ballast printed in the Manual, page 47, which are recommended as a guide, in connection with these specifications.

The President:-Unless there is objection this will be considered as approved.

Mr. Hale:-After further consideration of the physical tests which are recommended, the Committee wishes to recommend the following change:

"It is recommended that the following be used for physical tests of stone ballast. Other things being equal, the maximum or minimum results as indicated will govern in selecting stone for ballast:

(a) Weight per cubic foot-Maximum.

(b) Water absorption in pounds per cubic foot-Minimum. (c) Per cent. of wear-Minimum.

(d) Hardness-Maximum.

(e) Toughness-Maximum.

(f) Cementing value-Minimum.

(g) Compression test Maximum.

"For the description of the physical tests of stone for ballast as recommended by the Association and full instructions as to how the samples should be obtained and shipped to the government for test (test made free of charge by the United States Government), see Proceed

ings of the American Railway Engineering Association, Vol. 11, Part 2, pp. 910-914, and report of Ballast Committee of 1912. If blue prints of the machine used in making the tests are desired, they can be obtained from the Department of Agriculture, United States Government, Washington, D. C."

Prof. S. N. Williams (Cornell College) :—I think it is due the ChairIman of the Committee to have it stated that he made an effort to secure funds during the year from different railroad companies for prosecuting these experiments, but was not successful in securing enough to carry on the experiments, so it would seem in order to express our appreciation as a Committee of the help given us, also other committees, by some of the great railway systems of the country, notably the New York Central, the Pennsylvania, the Baltimore & Ohio and the Santa Fe. If there are any others who have helped us I would be glad to have them also mentioned. These railway systems have not only shown commendable progress in the way of the development of their railway lines, and in advancing the progress of the railway service of the country as a whole, but they have also been very generous in helping out committees, and it is due these companies that we should express our appreciation of their generosity, because this is the only way in which we can secure a sufficient amount of help in various directions to carry out these investigations, which are expensive, and the expense must be borne by someone.

The President:-Mr. Jordan, can you give us any information on the subject of these proposed tests?

Mr. S. A. Jordan (Baltimore & Ohio) :-I will say to the convention that our investigation this year discloses comparatively nothing new relative to the physical test of stone for ballast.

Mr. Hale: There is one subject that comes up pretty nearly every year and that is the size of stone ballast, which is closely allied to the physical test. The Committee was fortunate enough to find a record of a test made in 1903 on the Pennsylvania Railroad, and while it was made some time ago, it gives some interesting information. A resumé of this test appears on page 147. It shows the first cost, and also the cost of maintenance, of putting in stone ballast. The test was carried on for a period of about three years, and the test showed that the larger size stone costs less to put in and less to maintain.

The President:-If there is no objection it will be understood that the report of the Committee under the heading, "Continue study of physical tests of stone for ballast," will be accepted as a progress report.

Mr. Hale:-The next item which the Committee had referred to it was to continue its investigation on gravel ballast and recommend methods of grading different qualities.

Last year your Committee obtained from various railroads a report of the percentage of sand and dust in their ballast and they tabulated this information and presented it to the Association, but the results were so erratic that little information could be drawn from it. One of the reasons for this, your Committee found, was that the method of testing

was not uniform. Some of the railroads weighed the ballast to determine the percentage of sand and dust, others measured it by volume and others had different methods of calculating the percentage. The Committee felt it was of the first importance to have a uniform method of measuring or testing the sand in ballast and with that end in view we have recommended the following method, to be printed in the Manual:

"Method of testing quality of gravel for ballast: (1) The size of the sample to be tested should be approximately one cubic foot.

"(2) Five average samples of about one cubic foot each should be selected from various parts of the pit which is to be tested. The five samples should then be thoroughly mixed and about one cubic foot of the mixture selected for testing.

"(3) To separate the gravel from the sand and dust use a No. ten (10) screen, ten meshes to the inch), made of No. 24 wire (B. & S. gage); to separate the sand from the dust use a No. fifty (50) screen (fifty meshes to the inch), made of No. 31 wire (B. & S. gage).

"(4) Measure the percentage of gravel, sand and dust taken from the sample by volume, giving the percentage of each ingredient, compared to the volume of the sum of the ingredients, as follows:

"(5) When sample is shipped for test it should be carefully and securely marked with name and location of the pit from which it was taken."

Mr. C. C. Cook (Baltimore & Ohio) :-- That first "S" is confusing. Should it not mean "sum?"

Mr. Hale:--"S" means volume of sand.

Mr. Cook-In both cases?

Mr. Hale: The reason the Committee had for adopting this method was because the method now prescribed in the Manual of dividing the volume of sand by the volume of the original bulk results in getting the sum of the per cents. equal to more than 100 per cent. of sand, plus per cent. of gravel, plus per cent. of dust would equal somewhere between 110 and 130, due to the fact that the voids are filled with part of the ingredients.

Your Committee considered several methods, among others the concrete mixture method, of mentioning the parts as 1, 3 and 6, as being desirable, but the use of the word "per cent." of sand in ballast is so common that the Committee did not wish to depart from it, but desired to give a form in which the percentage would be used, but in which the sum of the per cents, would equal 100, and for that reason we have adopted the method suggested.