has nothing to do with the designing of the yard or any engineering features. If it is intended to put this matter in the Manual, it would be my opinion that it ought not to be adopted.

Mr. C. H. Spencer:-May I quote for Mr. Fritch the object of this Association as printed at the top of the first inside cover of the Manual? "The object of this Association is the advancement of knowledge pertaining to the scientific and economic location, construction, operation and maintenance of railways." (Applause.)

Mr. Mann:-I would like to call your attention also to the subjects that were assigned to the Committee by the Board of Direction. The third subject reads: "Report on developments in the design and operation of hump yards."

Mr. S. S. Roberts:-The use or lack of use of this switch list will have some effect on the design of the yard. The method of marking on the ends of the cars the number of the classification tracks to which the cars go necessitates a very much more complete and much more carefully designed lighting system on the hump than where the cut list is used, because it is necessary that the switchmen, where the ladder switches are operated by hand, and the towerman, where power is used, see the numbers on the ends of the cars by night as well as during the day. Difficulties have been experienced in some yards and some roads have spent a good deal of money because they did not use the switch list.

I think the word "safe" in connection with this switch list is entirely proper. I have visited a number of yards, operated in different ways, where switch lists were not used and have seen men dancing around in front of moving cars, chalking numbers on the ends of these cars, and have wondered how they escaped injury. I would not consider such a job for five minutes, no matter what it paid. I think the consideration of safety is entirely proper in this Association.

Referring again to the illumination required on humps where the switch list is not used. If the intensity of the light is sufficient to enable the switchmen or towerman to see the numbers marked on the ends of the cars, the car riders for a time after passing the hump are almost blinded and travel a considerable distance down the yard before their eyes become accustomed to the darkness. There is more probability of damage on account of cars coming together and of delay on account of cars stopped short that must be later shoved to coupling.

Mr. Mann:-It was the thought of the Committee, as well, that the cut list is a great help in O. S. & D. work. A man in switch cabin by means of the cut list keeps a record of each rider. If there is any damage to a car or the freight in a car, it can be directly traceable to one individual, the rider, provided we file away the cut list.

Mr. Brooke-I would inquire from the Committee if they consider that these methods, which they state were unsafe, were efficient? It seems to me that the word "efficient" covers the matter of safety well enough; but a method of operation which is inherently unsafe is at the

same time inefficient, and I will be very glad to see the word "safe" omitted.

The President:-The Committee will accept that amendment, and it is understood that the word "efficient" takes the place of "safe." Recommendations Nos. 1 and 2 are now before the convention. The Chair thinks it would be well to read it so that there shall be no mistakethat is, recommendation No. 2.

Mr. C. H. Spencer:-Recommendation No. 2 now reads: "The Committee has investigated the 'cut list' system of handling cars on the hump and recommends it as being efficient, and the system is briefly described as follows:

"The yard clerk makes up a list of cars to be switched and tracks they are to be placed on in receiving yard, cut No. 1 being the first car to go over the hump.

"Cut list form accompanies this report. It is perforated on vertical lines, so that it may be divided into multiple parts, each part being a duplicate of the other.

"Where switches are thrown from a tower, one copy of the list is given to the towerman and one to the man cutting off cars on the hump. Where switches are thrown by hand, each switch tender has a copy of the cut list, as well as the man cutting off the cars on the hump." The President:-Unless there is objection, these two recommendations are approved.

Mr. W. I. Trench (Baltimore & Ohio) :-I believe in addition to giving this information to the four persons listed here, that the car rider should also have the information, and this can only be given efficiently by chalking on the ends of the first car or cut. If the car rider does not know on which track his car is going he has not means of determining just what amount of breaking should be done, and if the track into which he is going is nearly full he will not set his brakes hard enough, and will cause a collision. If he goes into an empty track and he is required to let his cut go to the end of it, he may set his brakes too hard and not go far enough. I believe, in conjunction with the method described of informing every one concerned as to where the cut is going, the car rider should have that information also.

Mr. Mann:-Each track is presumably marked by a light on the first car, so that the Committee feels the rider has the information necessary.

Mr. Trench-I did not refer to giving the information on a sheet of paper. The method which I have seen used successfully is to mark, for instance, on the first car of the cut, "five cars, track 18," or some such notation as that. It is not possible for the man who is cutting off the cut to give the car rider this information, because he is on the opposite end of the cut. If it is necessary, to avoid a collision, to apply the

brakes at the near end of the track into which he is entering, he should have this information.

Mr. C. H. Spencer:-There is no end to the extent to which this cut list might be carried. It is a matter of how the different roads may want to operate it. There is no objection to giving the car rider one of these lists or anyone else who might have use for it. We have provided in our recommendation, as last presented, a multiple cut list which would furnish sufficient copies to extend the system as far as it is desired.

Mr. S. S. Roberts:-In watching operation where the cut list is used, it seems entirely unnecessary to mark on any car where the cut is going. The foreman tells the rider where the cars are going. He says, for instance, "Take five cars to track No. 4." That is all the information the rider needs. He should have memory enough to retain this while he rides down the hump. It is his duty to know what tracks are "fast" and "slow," and whether or not he has a long or short ride. Mr. C. H. Spencer:-I move the adoption of the two conclusions as revised.

The President:-Those in favor of adopting the two conclusions in the modified form, as recommended practice, and for publication in the Manual, will so indicate.

(Motion carried.)

Mr. C. H. Spencer:-The last subject assigned to the Committee is entitled "Development in the mechanical handling of freight by mechanical means." We present a further report on this subject for information only. The Committee has done much work along these lines during the past two years, and I want to say on behalf of Mr. Clift, who was the chairman of the sub-committee in charge of this work, that he received the hearty cooperation of all the railroads to whom we have made application for assistance, and Mr. Clift has taken a vital interest in this subject. I believe the members who read the report will find a great deal of information of value in this report, and they can get the best there is out of it.

The President:-The Committee has presented, I think the convention will agree, a very complete and enlightened report that will be useful in all branches of railroad work, relating to the operation of yards and passenger stations.

Mr. L. C. Fritch:-Before the Committee is relieved, I would like to make some suggestions as to its future work. I handed one of the reports of this Committeee to a very prominent designer of large terminal stations and he said it was the first report that he had seen that had treated in a scientific way the question of the design of large passenger terminals. He, of course, has made a study of the subject. This gentleman said that there was an alarming ignorance on the part of engineers in this country upon the needs of terminal facilities, especially passenger terminal facilities.

It seems to me that the Committee can do very important work along the line of establishing units of capacity. Take, for example, the track capacity; the Committee could determine what is the relative unit capacity for the busiest hour of a terminal with stub tracks as against one with through tracks. Then the Committee could also consider the relation of the platform space to track capacity. Then, again, the question of area of passenger station waiting room and other service facilities.

I think this is one of the most vital questions which confronts us to-day. We are being called upon to expend millions of dollars upon large union passenger stations and we should have some guide as to what shall be the capacity of these stations. It not only touches on the large terminals, but the smaller terminals. We are being pressed for an increase in the capacity of our passenger terminals even in the case of our smaller stations. If we can adopt some rule showing what the unit capacity of terminals shall be we can defend ourselves and say that the existing station is large enough for present needs, and in that way often postpone heavy expenditures.

I believe along these lines the Committee can do valuable work. It has made a most excellent beginning and has given us data of inestimable value.

The President:-The Committee is relieved with the thanks of the convention for its interesting report.

DISCUSSION ON GRADING OF LUMBER.

(For Report, see pp. 955, 956.)

LIST OF SPEAKERS TAKING PART IN DISCUSSION ON GRADING OF LUMBER.

DR. HERMANN VON SCHRENK.

The President:-The report on Grading of Lumber will be presented by the Chairman, Dr. Hermann von Schrenk.

Dr. Hermann von Schrenk (Consulting Timber Engineer):-—Mr. Chairman, and Gentlemen, the report of this Committee is very short. We have to report, first, the adoption of the rules submitted to this Association last year and authorized for publication in the Manual, by three of the large lumber-producing associations of the country. The yellow pine rules were adopted by the Yellow Pine Manufacturers' Association; the hardwoods by the Hardwood Manufacturers' Association of the United States, and the Douglas Fir, by the West Coast Lumber Manufacturers' Association. The Northern Pine Manufacturers' Association refused to accept the White Pine rules, and they will not be adopted as far as the White Pine Manufacturers are concerned. Your Committee, during the year, has gone over the various types of lumber, but most of the rules, owing to the fact that they were in poor shape when submitted, were not in condition for submission this year. Referring to the rules submitted, in Bulletin 144, last year, regarding cypress, these have been standing a year, and after going over them again this year your Committee begs to recommend their adoption for inclusion in the Manual, and I would make a motion to that effect. (Motion seconded and carried.)

The President:-This is all the Committee has to offer for action. If there are no further remarks, the Committee will be relieved, with the thanks of the Association.