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ing Australian coal at $21.80 a ton. United States coal delivered Buenos Aires is about $16.50 a ton, and Argentina would like nothing better than to fill its requirements of over 1 million tons with United States coal, and here I quote the language of the report, but "shortages of United States currency makes it imperative to buy elsewhere."

There are many other specific examples of increased United States business and jobs that could be encouraged by a more liberal extension of the trade program, but in the interest of time I shall save these for the written memorandum.

For now, I should like only to urge that H. R. 12591 not be made any more restrictive and that if it is amended at all it should be in the direction of more trade, more business, for the American economy.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Carlson. Mr. Barnhard, at the beginning of your statement you asked permission to file a supplemental statement. I assume that will not be so lengthy that it will be a volume in itself, and that it would be confined to the subject under discussion?

Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir; it would be. And I am sure it will not be more than 6 or 8 pages. I just want an opportunity to relate some of the specific problems of copper and brass imports to pending legislation.

Senator Carlson. The statement will be published in full in the record if received in adequate time.

Mr. BARNHARD. Thank you, sir.

(Mr. Barnhard had not submitted a statement at the time the hearings were printed.)

Senator CARLSON. Senator Malone?

Senator MALONE. Mr. Barnhard, I notice you are from the law firm of Chapman, Wolfsohn & Friedman, counsel for the American Importers of Brass & Copper Mill Products. Where do you live?

Mr. BARNHARD. Here in Washington,
Senator MalONE. Where is the business located of these people?

Mr. BARNHARD. The members of the association, sir, or the members of the law firm?

Senator MALONE. Members of the association that hire you, where are they located?

Mr. BARNHARD. The members of the association consist of 17 major importers of copper and brass mill products, located on both the east and the west coasts, sir; centered primarily in New York and Los Angeles.

Senator MALONE. Would you mind submitting the names of these importers for the record?

Mr. BARNHARD. I will be happy to submit that.
Senator MALONE. Do you have them with you?
Mr. BARNHARD. No, I don't have them with me.
(The information to be submitted is as follows:)

MEMBERS OF AMERICAN IMPORTERS OF BRASS & COPPER MILL PRODUCTS, INC.
The Alcobra Co., Los Angeles, Calif.
Atlantic Aluminum & Metal Distributors, Inc., Springfield, Mass.
Camarge Trading Co., Inc., Philadelphia, Pa.
Franconia Industries, Inc., New York, N. Y.
Fromson Orban Co., Inc., New York, N. Y.
A. W. Horton & Co., Los Angeles, Calif.
Lipman's, Brooklyn, N. Y.

Norca Corp., New York, N. Y.
The Ore & Chemical Corp., New York, N. Y.
Ovingsteel, Inc., New York, N. Y.
Reynolds Fasteners, Inc., New York, N. Y.
S. Bernard Schwartz, New York, N. Y.
State metals division, Wiwoco Corp., New York, N. Y.
Ufinindo International Corp., New York, N. Y.
Vanderryn International, Inc., New York, N. Y.
David L. Wilkoff Co., Inc., New York, N. Y.

Senator MALONE. These people that you represent are importers of brass and copper?

Mr. BARNHARD. Brass and copper products, sir. They are not importers of raw copper. They are importers of products, manufactured or semimanufactured products, which contain copper or brass.

Senator MALONE. From foreign nations?
Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. What do you find in general is the difference in the cost of these products, and name a few of the products, if you would like to, made abroad, and by the same type of manufacturer here. First, I presume that you import fabricated products that are also manufactured here? Mr. BARNHARD. In most cases, yes; not in all cases.

Senator MALONE. Well, in most cases. Name a few of the products just to give us some kind of an idea of the range.

Mr. BARNHARD. Copper piping, brass tubing, brass and bronze sheets. These are typical products more of semimanufacture than of finished manufacture.

Senator MALONE. Do you manufacture small articles in brass and copper for sale here, I mean abroad, and import them for sale?

Mr. BARNHARD. Only a very small part of this is in finished articles which are offered for sale here. The great bulk of the imports represented here are semimanufactures which require further processing by American factories, or by American workmen.

Senator MALONE. What are some of the things, though, that you do manufacture in quantity and import?

Mr. BARNHARD. The leading ones, I suppose would be the copper water piping and brass tubing, as well as brass sheets.

Senator MALONE. Where are these products made, principally? Mr. BARNHARD. The great bulk of them in Germany, Sweden, some from the United Kingdom, Switzerland, some from Belgium, and a smaller percentage of total imports, although a very insignificant percentage of the imports of the members of this association, from Japan.

I think total importations in this category from Japan are considerably less than 10 percent.

Senator MALONE. Are they increasing?

Mr. BARNHARD. They have been fairly stable, as I understand it, for the last year or so.

Senator MALONE. What are the differences in the wages in these countries that you have mentioned and in the United States do you know?

Mr. BARNHARD. Excuse me before I answer that. May I add one more country which is a source of these imports? And that is Canada.

Senator Malone. That is Germany, Sweden, Japan, and Canada, and one other country.

Mr. BARNHARD. Belgium.

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Senator MALONE. Do you have any idea what wages are in these countries?

Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir. I have with me the testimony that was submitted by Mr. Walter S. Guggenheim who is a director of the American Importers of Brass & Copper Mill Products, the testimony he submitted to the Ways and Means Committee which contained some details on that subject.

The wages in Western Europe in the industry which produces these copper and brass mill products range from about 60 cents to $1.10 an hour.

Senator MALONE. That is in Western Europe?
Mr. BARNHARD. Yes.
Senator MALONE. From a dollar and what?
Mr. BARNHARD. From 60 cents to $1.10 an hour.

Senator MALONE. Do you have any idea what countries are paying 60 cents and which ones are $1.10?

Mr. BARNHARD. The highest wage rate in this industry seems to be in Sweden.

Senator MALONE. What is that?
Mr. BARNHARD. That is in the area of $1.10. Belgium
Senator MALONE. In this particular industry?
Mr. BARNHARD. In this particular industry, yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. Sweden is nearer in wages to around 75 to 90 cents an hour, but you might find that certain workers would get $1.10 an hour there.

Mr. BARNHARD. These were represented by Mr. Guggenheim and I think based on accurate information as the average for this particular industry.

Senator MALONE. Mr. Guggenheim was for imports? Mr. BARNHARD. He is an importer, sir. He is vice president of two very substantial importing companies.

Senator MALONE. Importing companies?

Mr. BARNHARD. His companies are Van Derryn International Corp., and the Guggenheim International Corp. He is vice president of both of those companies.

Senator MALONE. What do you find the wages to be in Canada? Mr. BARNHARD. In Canada the wages appear to be about 10 to 15 percent below the United States wage level in this industry.

Senator MALONE. Canada runs around $1.50 to $1.65 an hour. You could possibly find some of the workingmen that would be paid more than that, but very seldom.

The wages in this country on this particular work, run somewhere around $2 to $2.25 an hour.

Mr. BARNHARD. The difference does not seem to be too far off, 10 percent, which would be the difference between $2 and $1.70.

Senator MALONE. Two dollars and eight cents is about as low as they get here, I guess. Still, whatever the difference is it does not matter much, if there is no equalization process. They have to meet the wages and the cost of doing business here and they would have to meet that foreign cost, or substantially decrease their output, would they not?

Mr. BARNHARD. They would, sir; except that there is no absence of equalization factor. There is a very substantial equalization factor which more than offsets the difference in wage.

Senator MALONE. What is it? Mr. BARNHARD. A fairly careful estimate was made of the wage factor involved in the United States copper and brass mill product industry, and on the basis of information supplied by the Copper and Brass Research Association, the secretary of which organization will testify here next week, the average wage factor in United States copper and brass mill products is just under 7 cents a pound.

On the other hand, the extra costs which are unique to imports and do not have to be borne by United States producers in this industry, including freight from the foreign mills to the port, export packing, ocean freight, insurance, and duty, total about 6 cents a pound on these commodities, which means that if the European manufacturers of these products paid absolutely no wages at all they would enjoy a price advantage of no more than 1 cent a pound because of wage differential. These figures were made by members of the association based on information supplied by the domestic copper and brass research association.

Senator MALONE. They are made by importers?
Mr. BARNHARD. Oh, yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. Now then, let us assume that you are correct in all of your statements, you do realize that there is a difference. I will not argue with you to take the time of the committee on that part of it. The record will stand on that, the record that will be made by the committee.

You do realize that whenever there is a difference not equalized by a tariff or something, that the American producers, just as you said, have difficulty in meeting the competition?

Mr. BARNHARD. This is true of any competition. This is true of competition between a northern mill and a southern mill, too. Sir, I will accept that statement, yes.

Senator MALONE. I am glad you brought that up. In the United States of America we are very careful that as the Constitution provides we compete with each other. The Constitution does not provide that you can do it with $2 or $5 labor or anything else in any other country. Only you advocate that-you and your people-you understand that?

Mr. BARNHARD. No; I do not understand what there is in the Constitution which requires competition only within a limited geographical boundary.

Senator MALONE. The Constitution prohibits any tariff or any charge for materials going across State lines. You are a lawyer. You should know that—you do know that? Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. That is what I say. Of course, in the Constitution of the United States, if you look at it, you will see that with amazement. Mr. BARNHARD. I have looked at it from time to time.

Senator MALONE. I hope you have, while you are a member of that business.

That is, that in article I, section 8, and article II, section 2, the Constitution of the United States in the division of powers between the three branches of Government, pointedly separated the regulation of national economy, fixing and adjusting the tariff, duties, and imposts and excises in article I, section 8. And the regulation of foreign trade was put in the legislative branch; that is, the Constitution did that.

27629—58-pt. 14-24

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And in article II, section 2, it put the power to fix foreign policy in the executive branch.

Are you familiar with those two provisions?
Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir.
Senator MALONE. Then it did pointedly separate the two, did it not?
Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. Now, then, the 1934 Trade Agreements Act, as extended to June 30 of this year, tied the two together under the Executive, didn't it?

Mr. BARNHARD. It didn't quite tie the two together. This was an act of Congress which delegated certain of its legislative functions within a statutory framework to the Executive.

Senator MALONE. Your opinion is that, and it has to be in more legal language. I do not charge anything for mine, you charge for your opinion.

The facts are that it transferred the responsibility of Congress to the Executive, did it not?

Mr. BARNHARD. No, sir; the constitutional power remained in Congress and always has and could not be changed by act of Congress or by Executive order.

Senator MALONE. I hope it could not, but it has. In other words, the President now exercises the authority to adjust tariffs, excises, imposts within the limits of that act; and Congress has no recourse unless it would pass an act which he could then veto.

Mr. BARNHARD. Congress would have no greater power, either with or without that trade-agreements law, sir. Congress always has the power to act by law to make whatever change it desires to make.

Senator MALONE. You could charge more for that opinion than the way I expressed mine. But will you answer my question: Can or cannot the President of the United States within the limits set down in this act adjust the tariff or imposts without consulting Congress?

Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. Well, that is very fine, my friend. And I am glad you said, “Yes, sir,” because that is what it is. That is the answer. And the answer was not what you first gave in an opinion of about 500 words.

In brass products, what percentage of the raw material is copper, in a general statement?

Mr. BARNHARD. It varies so much, sir, that I would hesitate to say except, if you mean percentage of value; is that what you have in mind?'

Senator MALONE. I mean percentage of the material.

Mr. BARNHARD. The great bulk of it, at least, in most of the items which my clients import, I would say the great bulk of the content is copper.

Senator MALONE. Somewhere from 65 to 85 percent?
Mr. BARNHARD. Yes, sir; I would think at least that.
Senator MALONE. I think that is a fair statement.
Mr. BARNHARD. I think it is, sir.

Senator MALONE. Do you know that production of copper in this country cannot compete with the production of copper in certain of these countries, notably Chile, in South America?

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