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Assistant instructor, Sept. 11, 1967 Feb. 1, 1968. Mar. 6, 1965 Strong-arm robbery, Juvenile community July 23, 1967 Grand theft. Stricken without per annum $3,840.

assault. adjustment.

leave. Jan. 21, 1966 Loitering and truant. Community adjust

ment. July 17, 1966 Criminal damage to Juvenile, Community

property and adjustment.

curfew. Dec. 30, 1966 Strong-arm robbery. Community adjust

ment. Community worker, Aug. 21, 1967 Apr. 16, 1968.

No identifiable

No identifiable $2 per hour.

record.

record.
Community worker, Oct. 9, 1967 Jan. 9, 1968. Mar. 15, 1964 Strong-arm robbery. Juvenile, refer to Nov. 13, 1967 Aggravated assault. Nolle prossed.
$2 per hour.

family court. Jan. 9, 1968 Aggravated battery. Discharged.
Apr. 1, 1968 Still employed. May 10, 1964 Robbery.

Directed to family

court. May 13, 1964 Habitual runaway. Directed to family

court. Jan. 15, 1965 Strong-arm robbery, Juvenile.

resisting. Sept. 14, 1965 Strong-arm robbery, Juvenile.

parole violation. Feb. 15, 1966 Aggravated battery. Directed to family

court. Community workers, Nov. 6, 1967 Nov. 30, 1967. Jan. 20, 1966 Loitering.

Juvenile.

No identifiable $2 hour.

record,

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Senator Curtis. Where did you get the information set forth thereon ?

Mr. Duffy. We went into the TWO office and obtained the subprofessional staff listings as of December 30. We took those listings to the police department, identified them with their names, serial numbers, their addresses, and other data, and we went to the police department and researched the police records and compiled these statistics.

The CHAIRMAN. As for Hairston, this record shows that in 1961 he was convicted of aggravated assault and got 6 months in the house of correction.

I don't know what his age was then. That would be when he was about 16, I guess. Sixteen or 17.

In 1962, auto theft, and he got 1 year, with supervision.
In May 1964, robbery. He was discharged on that count.

On May 1, 1965, battery, resisting and disorderly, applied probation, 1 year probation.

In 1965, he was involved in robbery. Released, without charge. He was arrested for that.

November 22, 1965, unlawful use of weapons and disorderly. On that count he was discharged.

December 1, 1965, armed robbery. He was released on that.

June 1966, resisting arrest and disorderly, leave to file denied. I don't know what that means.

Also, obstructing police officers, stricken without leave.

June 1966, unlawful use of weapons, discharged; resisting arrest, discharged; theft, discharged for want of prosecution.

On October 11, 1965, aggravated battery, discharged; resisting police, $200 fine; disorderly, $50 fine.

November 14, 1966, open bottle in car, discharged.
March 4, 1967, resisting, $25 fine.
When was he convicted of conspiracy to murder?

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TESTIMONY OF REV. JOHN R. FRY-Resumed

Reverend Fry. I do not recall the exact date, Mr. Chairman, but it was the end of May, I believe, of this year. It was within the last month.

The CHAIRMAN. The end of May of this year?
Reverend FRY. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Has he yet been sentenced?
Reverend Fry. No, sir. He is out on an appeal bond presently.
The CHAIRMAN. Was he convicted by a jury?
Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the charge there with respect to whom he solicited to commit the murder?

Reverend Fry. He was charged with one charge of murder and two charges of attempted murder, and three charges of solicitation, two for attempted murder and one for murder.

The CHAIRMAN. Which was he convicted on?
Reverend Fry. He was convicted on the three solicitation charges.

The CHAIRMAN. Solicitation to commit murder. Whom was he charged with having solicited ?

Reverend Fry. That verdict did not specify, to my knowledge.

The CHAIRMAN. You know who they were, don't you? You talked to him. You know who the three boys are. You attended the trial. You know who they were. Who were the two boys he solicited to commit murder?

(At this point Senator Curtis withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. BRACKETT. I assume you mean the three boys that were allegedly solicited to commit murder.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right, and he was convicted. Convicted after having been alleged.

Mr. BRACKETT. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Having solicited to commit murder.
Go ahead.
(At this point Senator Curtis entered the hearing room.)

Reverend' Fry. The principal was a young man named Dennis Jackson.

The CHAIRMAN. How old is Dennis ?
Reverend Fry. He was 14 at the time of the occurrence.

The CHAIRMAN. 14 at the time he committed crime. How old were the others?

Reverend Fry. 15 and 16, I believe.
The CHAIRMAN. 15?
Reverend FRY. And 16.
The CHAIRMAN. What is his name? There were three of them?

Reverend Fry. There were four involved at one time or another as having been charged with doing the actual shooting.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean these are different shootings or the same shooting?

Reverend Fry. The same shooting, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. He solicited four boys to do it. That was the charge and that is what he was convicted on?

Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Name the four boys and give their ages.
Reverend Fry. Dennis Jackson was 14 at the time. Sanders and
Marvin Martin were-

The CHAIRMAN. Sanders and Marvin Martin were how old?
Reverend FRY. 14 at the time.
The CHAIRMAN. Who was the other one?
Reverend Fry. A young man named Robert Danse.
The CHAIRMAN. What was his age?

Reverend Fry. I believe, I am not sure of this, Mr. Chairman, I believe he was 16. That is to the best of my recollection.

The CHAIRMAN. You attended the trial, did you?
Reverend FRY. Most of it, yes, sir.
Senator Mundt. Whom were they convicted of murdering?
Reverend FRY. An adult named Leo McClure.
Senator MUNDT. Was he a member of the 21 ?
Reverend FRY. No.

Senator Mundt. Was he a member of the rival gang, the Disciples, or whatever you call them?

Reverend Fry. No, sir. I know nothing about him. He was just an adult. I believe the evidence was that he was 33 years old.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

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Mr. BRACKETT. Excuse me, Senator Mundt. I think just for clarification it should be made clear that to the best of Reverend Fry's knowledge these four young men have not been tried for murder and have, therefore, not been convicted.

The way he answered the question may have misled you in that regard. Mr. Hairston has been tried for the solicitation, but I believe, to the best of our knowledge, that the trial for murder has not taken place, sir.

Senator MUNDT. Very good. The record will stand corrected.

What I am trying to get at is this: You attended the trial. I am trying to find out what the reason was—the alleged reason--for Hairston picking out this man McClure to be murdered.

There has to be some motivation. You just don't solicit somebody to shoot somebody. I thought it might be that he was a member of this gang or a rival gang, but you say, "No."

What did the evidence show?

Reverend Fry. I am a legal layman, and I did not feel that it was very clear what the motivation was that was established before the jury.

This was not established, sir, by the State's attorney.
Senator Mundt. No motivation was established ?
Reverend Fry. No, sir.

Senator Mundt. No reason was given by Hairston why he would want McClure out of the way?

Reverend Fry. That is right, sir.
Senator MUNDT. Okay.
(At this point Senator Curtis withdrew from the hearing room.)
The CHAIRMAN. You say you attended the trial.
Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did the court have occasion to give you any admonishment while you were there?

Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What were you doing?

Reverend Fry. I came very late because I had other responsibilities, and I came to the court at 11:15 during a recess. I found, to my astonishment, that one of the State's attorney's police had been edgy about what Jeff Fort was doing in the trial, and a young lady who was on our staff, and he included me somehow in this blanket of being disturbing to the jury or something.

Mr. Chairman, I had not even been in court that morning, yet. I, with Mr. Fort and Miss Schwalbach, were relegated to the back row of the courtroom.

The CHAIRMAN. You got relegated to the back end of the house?
Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Because you were making some signs, you and Jeff
Fort?

Reverend Fry. Well, sir, the point I was trying to make was that I had not even been in court that morning.

The CHAIRMAN. You couldn't get relegated to the back end of it if you weren't there.

Reverend Fry. I was relegated to the back end and I was not there, sir.

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The CHAIRMAN. How did you find out you belonged in the back end if you were not there?

Reverend FRY. Because after the recess where I tried to sit where I normally would have sat, a bailiff told me to sit on the back row.

The CHAIRMAN. The judge didn't admonish you personally?
Reverend Fry. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not present when the admonishment was given?

Reverend Fry. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you know that you were ordered to sit back there and behave yourself? Otherwise, the judge indicated he would hold you in contempt of court if you didn't, because you were giving signals to Jeff Fort and to the witnesses ! Do you remember that? Reverend Fry. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You do remember. That is what happened, isn't it? Reverend Fry. I remember a bailiff telling me to sit on the back row. The CHAIRMAN. That is all you remember?

Reverend Fry. Yes, sir; because the admonishment occurred in the judge's chamber.

The CHAIRMAN. That is while the witness was testifying, wasn't it?

Did you see, Jeff Fort making signs to the witness testifying, indicating to him he would blow his brains out? Did you see that?

Reverend Fry. Mr. Chairman, I was not in the court that morning.
The CHAIRMAN. That morning?
Reverend FRY. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you understand it happened?
Reverend Fry. No, sir; I do not understand that.
The CHAIRMAN. You never saw it?
Reverend Fry. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You were not there?
Reverend Fry. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Let's go to Jeff Fort a minute.
Senator Curtis.

Senator CURTIS. Do you know the names of the four boys who were charged with the shooting?

Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. Senator CURTIS. What were their names? Reverend Fry, Dennis Jackson, Marvin and Sanders Martin, and Robert Danse. The charges on three of these young men were later

Senator Mundt. We are having a terribly hard time hearing you. Reverend Fry. I am sorry.

Dennis Jackson, Robert Danse, Marvin and Sanders Martin were all originally charged with the shooting, and subsequently the charges were dropped on three of these young men; so that Dennis Jackson is the only one with a pending charge. He has not yet been tried.

Senator CURTIS. Were the four who were charged members of either of these gangs?

Reverend Fry. Yes, sir. They were members of the Blackstone Rangers.

Senator CURTIS. All of them!
Reverend Fry. Yes, sir.

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