The CHAIRMAN. What was he? What was his business? Mr. PIERSON. He dealt in narcotics. The CHAIRMAN. And McClure did, also? Mr. PIERSON. Yes, sir; to our knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. They say there is no motive as to why he would want them killed. What was the motive, according to your investigation? Mr. PIERSON. The motive, according to our investigation, was that these men were shot as a result of infringing on the narcotics traffic in the Woodlawn area. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, they were trespassing on the other fellow's territory? Mr. PIERSON. That is right. They were in bad territory, so to speak. The CHAIRMAN. What gang were they from, or were they independent operators just muscling in? Mr. PIERSON. They were independent. The CHAIRMAN. Independents muscling in. Whose territory was it where they were muscling in? Mr. PIERSON. That was the Blackstone Ranger territory. The CHAIRMAN. In what community? Mr. PIERSON. That was in the Woodlawn community. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any of this information, Reverend? You still don't believe it? TESTIMONY OF REV. JOHN R. FRY-Resumed Reverend FRY. Believe what? The CHAIRMAN. What was brought out at the trial. Reverend FRY. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You still don't believe it? Reverend FRY. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have great faith in Hairston, have you? Reverend FRY. I do not have any information that would lead me to believe that The CHAIRMAN. That would lead you to believe this is true. Very well. These four boys who were solicited and who did participate in the shooting, were they members of the Blackstone Rangers? TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PIERSON-Resumed Mr. PIERSON. Yes, sir. They held various positions as heads of subgroups. The CHAIRMAN. They were not among this top 21? Mr. PIERSON. No, sir; they were not, but they were heads of subgroups. One of the groups was what they refer to as the FBI Rangers. The CHAIRMAN. That is a subsidiary group within the framework of the Blackstone Rangers? Mr. PIERSON. Yes, sir; it is. The CHAIRMAN. It has been testified here by Mr. Rose that they would induce or try to solicit these youngsters to go out and do the killing, for if they got caught they would go through juvenile court instead of being tried as adults. Their sentence would be minimum as compared to what might happen to adults. Do you have other information about that in your capacity where you are working? Have you found that to be true? Mr. PIERSON. Yes sir. We have found that this has prevailed in the killings that have occurred in Chicago among the teenage gangs. It has been quite prevalent that the adult members of the Rangers use the younger members to commit their crimes because of the lesser punishment inflicted upon a juvenile. The CHAIRMAN. Reverend, if that is true, you wouldn't call it a good community organization; would you? TESTIMONY OF REV. JOHN R. FRY-Resumed Reverend FRY. If it were true I would not call it so. The CHAIRMAN. You would have to concede it is not a good one. Senator CURTIS. Does the name LaFayette Watts have any familiarity to you? TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PIERSON-Resumed Mr. PIERSON. Yes, sir; it does. Senator CURTIS. What is his business? Mr. PIERSON. Again, sir, our records, our investigations, reveal that he deals with narcotics, the sale of narcotics. Senator CURTIS. Do you, yourself, have any independent information that LaFayette Watts contacted the Rangers in reference to distributing dope? Mr. PIERSON. Yes, sir. Investigations which we have conducted brought this information to our attention, that LaFayette Watts wanted the cooperation of the Blackstone Rangers to protect his pushers, so to speak, from any harm, and to be sure other competitive pushers are kept out of that area, namely, the Blackstone Ranger territory. Senator CURTIS. Do you know who he contacted? Mr. PIERSON. To the best of my knowledge, he did contact Eugene Hairston. Senator CURTIS. Do you know what price was discussed for protection? Mr. PIERSON. Again, the information that we have: The moneys offered to Hairston by Watts for this protection varied from approximately $700 to $1,500 per month. Senator CURTIS. The man who was killed was named Straughter? Mr. PIERSON. James Lee Straughter. Senator CURTIS. Was he the driver of the car? Mr. PIERSON. No. In the killing that you are referring to. Senator, that was Leo McClure. He was the man who was killed. That was when Hairston was convicted for the solicitation of murder. Senator MUNDT. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Just one point. Where did you get this information, other than from Rose, about Watts' activities? Mr. PIERSON. Mr. Rose was one of many people with whom we have spoken regarding the activities of the Blackstone Rangers. We have interviewed numerous other witnesses whom we have tested as to the reliability of their information. We have found this information to be true and, in fact, did corroborate what Mr. Rose has told us. TESTIMONY OF REV. JOHN R. FRY-Resumed Senator MUNDT. Reverend Fry, you have heard the testimony of Mr. Pierson, who said that, contrary to what you told the committee in the first instance, you had been in the courtroom and had been giving reactions and outbursts while witnesses were testifying, which caused both Mr. Pierson and the judge to take the action they did in putting you in the back seat of the courtroom. What do you have to say about that? Reverend FRY. I reaffirm that I was not in the courtroom on that morning, and that I have never made any outbursts in any courtroom at any time. That is not the sort of thing I do. Senator MUNDT. Did you make any visible reactions of any kind, like a grimace, a gesture, or raucous laughter? Reverend FRY. Not raucous laughter. It is conceivable that my face revealed what was going on inside me. Senator MUNDT. Not raucous laughter? Reverend FRY. No, sir. Senator MUNDT. But your face may have revealed that you thought the witness was wrong? Reverend FRY. I would believe that, yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. You would believe that? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. Why didn't you tell us in your testimony that you had been in court, that you had been giving these reactions, instead of telling us in the first instance that you hadn't been in the court that morning, which was entirely irrelevant. If you had been a disturber of justice in the front row of a court, the judge could certainly put you in the rear of the court any time he wanted to, or throw you out the next time you showed up. You didn't tell us that. Reverend FRY. You didn't ask me, sir. Senator MUNDT. You should be forthright. You are under oath. You don't have the right to mislead this committee. Deliberately or unwittingly, you mislead us when you said you had not been in the courtroom when ordered to be put in the back. You didn't say you had been in the courtroom the day before that, and the day before that. Instead, you said, "but this morning I came in a little late and they put me in the back." You gave us the impression, apparently, that you had never been in the courtroom at all. Reverend FRY. I regret, sir, that you have that impression. If I led you to that impression, I deeply regret that. Senator MUNDT. The record will speak very eloquently for itself on that point. Mr. BRACKETT. Senator Mundt, my recollection is that the record will show that Reverend Fry did state he had been there several days earlier to this testimony, I think in response to Senator Curtis' question. Senator MUNDT. That was after he had told us he had not been in the courtroom that morning. Senator CURTIS. I think I can straighten it out. I got the impression that he had been there during the selection of the jury. Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. Senator CURTIS. Now this witness says several days of testimony had been presented before he made this report to the judge. I would like to ask Mr. Pierson this question: You made reference to a certain sum of money having been discussed as a payoff to Mr. Hairston. Was that a week or a month? TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PIERSON-Resumed Mr. PIERSON. Are you referring to the payoff- Mr. PIERSON. The protection money on narcotics? That was per month. It would vary. The information we received was that the amount was between $750 and $1,500. Senator MUNDT. Is this the first time, Reverend Fry, you have ever heard Mr. Hairston connected with the narcotics racket in any way? Is it a complete surprise to you? TESTIMONY OF REV. JOHN R. FRY-Resumed Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. You never heard of it before? Reverend FRY. No, sir. Senator MUNDT. Did you hear it in the courtroom? Reverend FRY. I am referring now, Senator Mundt, specifically to Mr. Pierson's statements. I had not heard this material before. Senator MUNDT. You never heard him connected at all with narcotics, with charges being involved in a narcotics ring? Reverend FRY. No, sir. Senator MUNDT. It is a complete surprise to you this morning? Reverend FRY. I have read some materials in the newspapers in which these allegations have been made. But the point I am making is that the material which Mr. Pierson is advancing is completely new material to me. Senator MUNDT. The details may be, but you had heard the over-all allegation, or read of it? Reverend FRY. Many times. Senator MUNDT. You knew he was under suspicion? Reverend FRY. Many times. The CHAIRMAN. In fact, you knew it all the time, that they were maintaining their headquarters in your church, didn't you? Reverend FRY. I knew the allegations. The CHAIRMAN. You knew they were under suspicion, then? The CHAIRMAN. And that charges were being made against them? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What did you do to find out if the charges were true? Reverend FRY. I entered into a discussion about them. Reverend FRY. With Mr. Hairston. The CHAIRMAN. You did talk to him about these things? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What did he tell you? Reverend FRY. He told me that it was completely false. The CHAIRMAN. He told you it was completely false, and you believed him? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now, then, as a matter of fact, as Senator Mundt has admonished you, you are under oath here this morning. And as I tried to admonish you, there will be further testimony. I want to ask you if it is true or not true that they brought marihuana to your church and stored it there at times just like they did the guns, this Blackstone Ranger group, or gang, or community organization, whatever you want to call them. Didn't they do that and don't you know it? Reverend FRY. To the best of my knowledge, they did not, sir. The CHAIRMAN. To the best of your knowledge? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. To the best of your knowledge, you don't know? Is that what you are saying? I ask you, don't you know that they did it and did it in your presence, and you knew it was going on? Reverend FRY. The answer to that question, Mr. Chairman, is "No." The CHAIRMAN. Didn't they bring large quantities there and break it up in smaller quantities at the church so they could take it home, these Main 21's, take it home and put it up into small packages that would sell for $5 and $10? Reverend FRY. To the best of my knowledge, this is untrue. The CHAIRMAN. Could that have been going on in your church and you not know it? Reverend FRY. I would find that difficult to believe. The CHAIRMAN. You would find that difficult to believe? Reverend FRY. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. So if it occurred, if it was going on, as has been reported here, and as has been charged, then you would say it would raise some question as to your credibilty, would it not? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Reverend FRY. I really cannot know everything that goes on in the church. The CHAIRMAN. I know you cannot know everything, but here you were, associated with them, you were father adviser to them. They met there and you were with them every day. You were giving them a headquarters. They stored guns there. That is where they made their policy, this group. It seems to me that if they were doing such |