The CHAIRMAN. It has been testified here, or intimated, that they are pretty nice youths, that they have the love, affection and respect of their members.

What do you say about Jeff Fort and the others?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I would say that the activities that they are involved in, the threats, the intimidations, the extortions, the contracts out to kill people is closer related to the Mafia, and the fact that these people are making these plans and these strategies, and the clandestine meetings in the church, is disgraceful.

As a matter of fact, upon assuming command of this district-
The CHAIRMAN. When was that?

Mr. GRIFFIN. June 14, 1966, I arranged through some of the responsible adults in the community who knew these people to have them in my office. At this time I indicated to them that the church was a bad influence and I tried to get them to break away from the church.

The CHAIRMAN. Whom are you talking about? Whom did you have in your office?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Eugene Hairston, Jeff Fort, and Lamar Bell.
The CHAIRMAN. You talked to those three at the time?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I even indicated to them that I felt that they were being used by Reverend Fry and this Chuck LaPaglia.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you say with respect to their being peaceful. nonviolent?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Sir, I brought with me some statistics since the first of the year that will certainly contradict any statement relative to their being peaceful and nonviolent.

The CHAIRMAN. What are your statistics?

Mr. GRIFFIN. We had 79 shootings since the first of January.

The CHAIRMAN. Where?

Mr. GRIFFIN. In this area that we are concerned with, this Woodlawn area.

The CHAIRMAN. In the Woodlawn area you have had 39 shootings? Mr. GRIFFIN. Seventy-nine.

The CHAIRMAN. Seventy-nine?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

Senator CURTIS. How many of them were fatal?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Five, sir.

Senator CURTIS. How many of them did great bodily harm, other than the five where death occurred?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I would say two-thirds of them, sir.

(At this point Senator Mundt withdrew from the hearing room.) The CHAIRMAN. It has been said here that since they had this program down there crime has decreased in that area. What information do you have about that?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to the OEO grant to TWO, we averaged 561 index crimes per police period.

The CHAIRMAN. What is a period?

Mr. GRIFFIN. It is a 28-day period, sir. It starts on a Wednesday and ends at midnight the Wednesday 28 days hence. This allows for a favorable comparison of crime statistics because we have the same number of weekends in each of these 28-day periods.

I might say that this Woodlawn area comprises only one-fifth of the area of the district that I command.

The CHAIRMAN. How with respect to population? We have to make some comparison by way of population as well as geographical area. Mr. GRIFFIN. I would say half of the population is crowded into this

area.

The CHAIRMAN. Half of the population is in the Woodlawn area? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And it is one-fifth of the area of your command? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In the Woodlawn area, do you have a way of determining the number of crimes committed there as compared with the crimes in the rest of your territory, the rest of your jurisdiction?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Not the total crimes, sir, but the shooting incidents we have compiled some statistics on. I think Mr. Dunne has those statistics.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the comparison of shootings during the past 6 months or during this year as compared to that same time before this program was inaugurated?

(At this point Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.)

Mr. GRIFFIN. I think, sir, if I am not mistaken and I don't have the statistics available, I think there has been a tremendous increase. The CHAIRMAN. Would you get those statistics? I don't want anything in this record that is not true. I thought you said you had those with you?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I have the shooting statistics since the first of the year. The comparison we have already drawn up. It is available. Here it is here, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you help compile these figures?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You can verify them?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I haven't seen it. I don't know what it is. Explain it to us and tell us what it is. Talk loud enough so you can be heard. Mr. GRIFFIN. This to here [indicating] is the period prior to the OEO grant.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the period 6 months prior to the OEO grant?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What does it show?

Mr. GRIFFIN. It shows the average of 65% shootings per month for the first 6 months.

The CHAIRMAN. Six and five-sixth's shootings per month for the first 6 months.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the chart on the right?

Mr. GRIFFIN. These are the incidents that have occurred, the shootings in black, the homicides in red, that have occurred since the manpower training program was funded in June.

The CHAIRMAN. Up to what time? The first 6 months?

Mr. GRIFFIN. The last 6 months, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The last 6 months, from June of last year?

In other words, for the balance of the year?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. This represents 1 year, the first 6 months of the year before the program was financed, and then the other half is the latter part of the year?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What does it show with reference to increase in crime or increase in shootings?

Mr. GRIFFIN. A 100-percent increase, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. A 100-percent increase?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that correct?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is based on your records? I don't want any information that is not reliable.

Mr. GRIFFIN. This is based on records, documents that we can present.

The CHAIRMAN. You helped prepare it from your records?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Therefore, you can testify to it under oath?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you are doing that.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many shootings does this six and five-sixths represent, the total number, on the other chart? How many does that represent?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Forty-one, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Forty-one shootings in the first 6 months.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many did you have in the latter 6 months? Mr. GRIFFIN. Seventy-four.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have the first 6 months of this year?

Mr. GRIFFIN. We don't have them charted. I have the case reports with me, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many shootings? I believe you said you had had 79 shootings.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Seventy-nine shootings and five homicides. Of the 79, five of the youths died.

The CHAIRMAN. Five of them died?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have information about those shootings, whether it is juveniles who are doing the shooting? The president has been convicted of soliciting some youths to kill some men in a car. Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have some statistics that will show in all this killing whether youths are doing it or whether the top leaders of the gang are doing it, or someone else, whatever the facts are? Mr. GRIFFIN. The youths are doing it, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In how many of the 79 shootings this year have you pretty well established that it was youths, and when I say youths I am talking about those in juvenile court, not tried as adults?

Mr. GRIFFIN. We have captioned a chart where the offender was a juvenile. All of those I have alluded to this year.

The CHAIRMAN. All of them were juveniles doing the shooting?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many of them were members of the Rangers or the Disciples?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I couldn't give you a definite statistic on that, Mr. Chairman. But I would go on record as saying that 90 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. Are members of one of the other of these gangs? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there some intragang shootings or killings? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Someone in a gang will shoot at another?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. These two main gangs, the Rangers and the Disciples, do they have satellite gangs that report to them or that are under their control?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir; off the top of my head, I might relate some of the satellite groups of the alleged Blackstone Ranger Nation. You have the Conservative Rangers, the Golden Rangers, the Pocket Rangers, the FBI Rangers, the Maniac Rangers, the 95th Street Syndicate Rangers, and there are probably others that I can't recollect, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Those are gangs affiliated with the overall parent organization?

Mr. GRIFFIN. With what they allude to as the "Nation."

The CHAIRMAN. As the Nation. These that we have been discussing here are representatives or officers of the Nation, am I correct? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is the way Mr. Rose testified.

Let this chart that the witness has been testifying about be inserted into the record at this point.

(The document referred to follows on p. 2106.)

The CHAIRMAN. So you are not a member of the gang intelligence unit, but you are the one that the Reverend has expressed he had considerable confidence in.

You tell us these facts and give us this information under oath, that shootings have practically doubled in that area since this program was funded.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you: Do you know now whether these two gangs are still peaceful as among each other or are they having their troubles, jurisdictional troubles, and so forth, at this time? Do you know?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I checked last Saturday with my tactical unit commanding officer and he said that the district was quiet as relates to

Mr. GRIFFIN. I checked Saturday and I was informed that things were quiet as it relates to gang confrontations within the district. The CHAIRMAN. Last Saturday?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was this man Herbert Stevens? I see he is on there. He was shot.

Mr. GRIFFIN. That is "Thunder".

The CHAIRMAN. Who?

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