already existent in the black community, and was not advocating any particular

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean, by "and then he will listen?" Then what? Then what?

Reverend FRY. As I suggested to Senator Curtis, then he may listen

The CHAIRMAN. After "then"-what comes "then?"

Mr. BRACKETT. Senator, would you please allow him to answer the question?

The CHAIRMAN. I am trying to get him to answer the question I am asking.

Mr. BRACKETT. Would you permit him to do that?

Reverend FRY. I will be happy to.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "then?" What had happened up to "then" that would cause them to do it? What is the act? Reverend FRY. There were two events related that would condition the word "then." The first event was some kind of activity around the convention.

The CHAIRMAN. Some kind of what?

Reverend FRY. Some kind of volatile activity around the convention. The CHAIRMAN. Volatile action around the convention that would wreck it?

Reverend FRY. I am sure it would have been intended to do so. The CHAIRMAN. To wreck it.

Reverend FRY. And the second act would thus be to "wreck" the mayor's reputation. Then the mayor might be responsive

The CHAIRMAN. If he got the convention wrecked, and it wrecked his reputation, then he would listen?

Reverend FRY. Then he might listen

The CHAIRMAN. That was the suggestion. You said they had no other communication except to do that.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Reverend FRY. It was not a suggestion, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lawyer, if you want to testify, we will swear you. We will cross examine you.

Let the witness do the testifying.

Mr. BRACKETT. I understand I can advise the witness.

Senator MUNDT. Maybe the lawyer should be admonished that he is violating the rules of the committee time after time after time.

The rule of the committee, Mr. Lawyer, is that your witness-the man who hired you-Reverend Fry, has a right to turn to you for legal counsel any time, but you have no right at all to volunteer information by whispering in his ear and by directing his remarks.

This is the way the committee operates.

Any time Reverend Fry feels he can't answer the question, that he wants legal advice, he can turn to you-that is why you are here. You have no right at all to coach him as you have been doing over and over again.

You are not to lean over and just tell him how to answer the committee.

Mr. BRACKETT. I have not been doing other than giving him advice under the rules of this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Just a minute.

Again I ask you-you say here after saying you had in mind that if it succeeded in wrecking the convention, this would wreck Daley's national prestige. Is that correct?

Reverend FRY. That is what I wrote.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what you wrote, what you said, and what you meant?

Reverend FRY. Yes; but did not suggest. I merely wrote.

The CHAIRMAN. Then you said: "Their only remaining avenue of communication," meaning the black people

You said that?

Reverend FRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And then you said if they succeeded, that is what you imply, if they succeeded, then perhaps Daley would listen. Reverend FRY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. I will leave it right there.

Now, I want to ask you another question, Mrs. Martin.

Mrs. Martin, you were testifying this morning about the ammunition that you got, and you can only remember the man's name as Wallace.

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANNABELLE MARTIN-Resumed

Mrs. MARTIN. I never called him anything but Wallace.
The CHAIRMAN. You knew him as Wallace?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes; but it was

The CHAIRMAN. Was this a pawn shop?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the name of it?

Mrs. MARTIN. Dorchester Loan.

The CHAIRMAN. Dorchester Loan?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes. It is at 1370 East 63d Street.

The CHAIRMAN. 1370 East 63d Street?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes. I believe that is the correct address.

The CHAIRMAN. I didn't know about this until yesterday. I believe it was yesterday. That was the first time I met with you or talked with you, but I said that I was going to dispatch a member of the staff to go out there and try to find this man and see what he knew about it, what he can remember about it.

We can bring him here, if we need to. He can be brought here and examined, if we want to.

I have in my hand an affidavit that Mr. Breen, a member of our staff, obtained when he went out and contacted him. He signed it. I have his affidavit, which I will read into the record at this point. This affidavit was taken today.

Chicago, Illinois, June 26, 1968.

I, Wallace W. Grant

You didn't know him by the name of Grant, just the Wallace? Mrs. MARTIN. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN (reading):

I make the following statement to Ray F. Breen, who has identified himself to me as an investigator for the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, U.S. Senate.

I make this statement voluntarily, and no threats or promises were made to induce me to make this statement.

I am 47 years of age and was born March 31, 1921, at Chattanooga, Tennessee. I can read and write the English language, having completed 9th grade in school. I reside at 7242 South Vernon Street, Chicago, Illinois.

For 18 years I was employed as a salesman at Dorchester Pawners, Inc., 1370 East 63rd Street, Chicago, Illinois. I left there December 19, 1967, when the company went out of business.

During approximately the last two years I was there, I came to know a customer called Annie. That is the only name I knew her by. She lived somewhere in the neighborhood and made several purchases from me at Dorchester, Inc. She is about 35 years of age, very heavy, about five foot six inches, fair brown complexion, and wore a wig.

She sent other people in for purchases, because we got along well. During approximately March or April, 1967, Annie came to the store to buy ammunition. She said she wanted "to take South." I do not recall her saying what she wanted it for, but she wanted various calibers. She did not have enough money to pay for all the ammunition she wanted, and left the store to get more money.

She returned the same day with the rest of the money and took the ammunition with her. I do not recall the total purchase price, but it must have been over $50. I did not make any record of the sale, because there was no requirement to do so. I usually gave a purchase receipt with the merchandise.

Annie was alone when she made this purchase, and I do not remember in what type of container she had the ammunition, nor whether she had a car. As best I can remember, this was the only purchase by Annie of ammunition.

We did not have a large volume of ammunition sales, and shortly after this purchase discontinued selling ammunition.

I saw Annie several times on the street after this purchase, but never discussed it with her, nor asked her about going South with it.

I have read this three-page statement and initialed each page. It is true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

It is signed "Wallace A. Grant."

It looks like Wallace A. Grant.

It is witnessed by Ray F. Breen, June 26, 1968.

On another page it reads:

I acknowledge that the above three-page statement did not leave room for a notary seal, and so re-signed this fourth page to incorporate the above three-page statement.

Again witnessed by Ray F. Breen.

Wallace A. Grant.

Subscribed and sworn before me this 26th day of June, 1968, at Chicago, County of Cook, State of Illinois, Jack Young, Notary Public.

That will be printed in the record in full.

That corroborates that you did purchase the ammunition. You say you took it to the church. What purpose would you have with that much ammunition? What need would you have for it?

Mrs. MARTIN. I didn't need the ammunition. Eugene Hairston told me to get it. He had gave me some money before that to buy it, but I didn't have but $40 to leave, and the ammunition came to about $90. I didn't have enough money, so I had to go to the church to get the

money.

The CHAIRMAN. How long has it been since you have seen this man Wallace, to talk to him?

Mrs. MARTIN. I haven't seen Wallace in I don't know when. We had to leave town, and I wasn't coming back in that neighborhood too much.

The CHAIRMAN. So you have not had any discussion with him about it since that time?

Mrs. MARTIN. I haven't seen him. I didn't even know Dorchester Loan was gone. I didn't even know it had moved.

The CHAIRMAN. You didn't know it was out of business?
Mrs. MARTIN. I can't go over there. We don't go over there.
The CHAIRMAN. You can't go over there?

Mrs. MARTIN. I can't go too many places, but the West Side.
The CHAIRMAN. The reason for that is because you are afraid?
Mrs. MARTIN. Yes; I am afraid.

The CHAIRMAN. I have been requested to ask you, by counsel for Reverend Fry: Where have you lived in the last 6 or 8 months?

Since you are afraid, and having the police protect you, I am not going to ask you that question. I don't think it is necessary

Mrs. MARTIN. I can answer it, Senator. I don't live there any more, but I can answer. I can answer where I have been in the last 6 or 8 months.

We first moved to 1160-the police moved us

The CHAIRMAN. You needn't tell us, unless you want to.

Mrs. MARTIN. I want to. I am not there any more.

The CHAIRMAN. They are not going to find you there?

Mrs. MARTIN. No. They moved me from 1370 East 62d Street— Sergeant Dee from Gang Intelligence found a place—to 1160 North Seventh.

We stayed there a while, and they started to calling and kicking on the door, and say when I get out, if I leave the house, I be killed. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know who was kicking on the door? Mrs. MARTIN. It is them Blackstones.

You see, over there, it is Blackstone Rangers, too, even on the North Side.

Sergeant Dee, I guess, thought he was getting away, but he put me right in them at 1160 North Seventh.

One day, I think it was the Hairston hearing, we went, and we got so many threats, I couldn't go back to 1160 North Seventh. They had to move me, keep me straight on from the courthouse on to the motel to stay. I couldn't go back there.

They sent the airline to pack up my furniture to move, and I moved to Detroit, Mich.

One night I was asleep, and we was living in a basement. I looked out, and I saw two men standing pointing there to go down, you know. That was there. We were still getting threats. So the State's attorney moved me from Detroit.

The CHAIRMAN. If you are afraid, you better not tell where you are living now.

Mrs. MARTIN. I am not going to tell where I am living.

They moved me back where I am living now. Let's put it that way. But anyway, Jeff knows where we are.

The CHAIRMAN. Old Jeff already knows?

Mrs. MARTIN. He already knows, but so many police is there. The CHAIRMAN. So many police are there, you don't think he is going to bother you?

Mrs. MARTIN. No; they can't kill me, right now. They have to wait. The heat is on.

The CHAIRMAN. One other question, and you don't have to answer this.

First, I will ask you, are you on relief? Do you get money from the Government for the support of yourself and children?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes, I am on there. Until we went to Detroit. We ran so much, until they taken me off.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you on it now?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. You get assistance from the Government.

He wanted me to ask you who paid the living expenses during that period.

Mrs. MARTIN. During what period?

The CHAIRMAN. During the period of the last 6 or 8 months.

Mrs. MARTIN. The State's attorney got some places for me, and Urban Renewal got some for us, too.

The CHAIRMAN. Urban Renewal got some for you?

Mrs. MARTIN. The State's attorney did more of it than anything. The CHAIRMAN. So they have been having to try to protect you! Mrs. MARTIN. They have did it up until now, so far.

The CHAIRMAN. They have been able to protect your life up until

now?

Mrs. MARTIN. Yes; but they spend more of their time at my house. The CHAIRMAN. They spend more time there giving you protection? Mrs. MARTIN. For 24 hours.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Mundt.

Senator MUNDT. While we are on the subject of trying to corroborate the testimony-this is going to take some time, but it is very important as we are having many direct conflicts of testimony under oath.

Because of the important part played in this recital by a fellow by the name of Steve, who Mrs. Martin was unable to identify by any more specific name, I asked the staff to try to determine whether, in fact, there is such a man Steve, whether he did in fact go with her to the courtroom, as she said he did, and whether he was, in fact, present to listen to the telephone conversation which she recitedregarding the lawyer-conducted in her presence, in which she could hear the voice of Reverend Fry.

I want the Chair to know that Lieutenant Buckney of the police force of Chicago has undertaken that investigation for the staff. They have located this man Steve, whose real name is Stephen Connor. He was, at the time, a detective posing as her mentally retarded husband.

As far as I know, perhaps he still is a detective in the city of Chicago.

From him we learned the names of the two attorneys that came to her alleged defense, or allegedly that came to her defense, from the Legal Aid Bureau, following the telephone call, which Reverend Fry made.

One was Mr. William Seltzer, of the Legal Aid Bureau, 1114 South Oakley, and the other is Patrick McNally.

Mr. Chairman, I am going to suggest that we subpena Mr. Steve Connor, and have him testify under oath, because this information is not in affidavit form.

Suffice it to say that Lieutenant Buckney reported to me, that Stephen Connor reported to him, that Mrs. Martin's testimony was indeed correct, and accurate, insofar as his appearance with her, and insofar as he having heard the attorneys tell her that she should have

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