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Mr. LAPAGLIA. Eugene Hairston.

The CHAIRMAN. He said he was at the church?

Mr. LA PAGLIA. The problem was for him to get his story clear as to who were some of the other

The CHAIRMAN. What?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. For example, he wanted to know who were some of the people who were with him. I think he was reticent to tell who some of the people were who were with him.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he tell you who was with him?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Who were they?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Lee Jackson is all I recall.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you do with that information?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I passed it on to George Cotsirilos.

The CHAIRMAN. To his lawyer?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. It took you as a middleman to get that information from his client?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. There was another problem which was a matter of

The CHAIRMAN. What was the problem?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. A matter of trust between George Cotsirilos and Eugene Hairston.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you say about that fellow Straughter while you were talking?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I said nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. What was said about that $36,000 worth of pot, of marihuana that got involved in this matter?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. You never heard of that, did you? When did you first hear of it?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. The first time I heard?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I have not heard of any amount of money, of pot. The only thing I have heard is that I was accused of carrying marihuana in my car. I have not heard anything else.

The CHAIRMAN. Where did the police find the marihuana at that time? In whose car?

Mr. BRACKETT. Are you talking about the marihuana he is alleged to have carried or some other marihuana?

The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about the marihuana that got involved in the Straughter killing. He was killed over some marihuana that was found in somebody's car that George Rose was supposed to get and deliver.

Mr. BRACKETT. What was your question, sir?

The CHAIRMAN. I asked him if he discussed that with Hairston. Mr. LA PAGLIA. Did I discuss it with Hairston?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you first hear about it?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. It seemed to me I read it in a newspaper article. The CHAIRMAN. Was that after the killing?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No; I read it in the newspaper article at the time the marihuana was found.

The CHAIRMAN. How long was it after that before the killing took place?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I have no idea.

The CHAIRMAN. Before Straughter was killed, after you read about it in the newspaper?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I have no idea. As I recall from a later newspaper article the identified marihuana, this was in the Tribune article, as having been found in January and this was part of Mr. Rose's————— The CHAIRMAN. In whose car?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. It didn't mention, as I remember

The CHAIRMAN. It was an abandoned car.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. An abandoned car, as I remember. It was in connection with Mr. Rose's testimony the State said he made at the time. That is the only reason I remember it was in January.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you report back to Reverend Fry your discussions with Hairston in the jail?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No; I don't recall. I discussed the full details of the case with Reverend Fry, the fact that Eugene Hairston was in the jail, but I did not report that I went in, talked to Eugene Hairston specifically about the case.

The CHAIRMAN. Why? Why didn't you report that to your boss? Mr. LAPAGLIA. I didn't see any reason to.

The CHAIRMAN. You did not seen any reason to?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No. That is, Reverend Fry has never asked me to make a detailed account of my actions.

The CHAIRMAN. He is kind of careful not to get too much of a detailed account; is that it? It looks to me as if your boss would be interested in what you are doing. The church is paying you $11,000 a year to look after this gang. It seems to me especially when he had been there to try to see him and couldn't get to seem him and you go and have a talk with him and you are his first right arm assistant, looking after them, and you go back and you don't talk to him about it. Mr. LAPAGLIA. I think the only reason he was in there was to see him, period. Not about anything specific but just as a friend and going into the court.

Senator MUNDT. It would seem logical to me that he has not tried to get in, and the jailer saying he can't come in and then you going in there and talking with him, I think Fry would ask, "How is Eugene coming along; how is Hairston coming along; how is he standing up; what is his mental attitude?"

It is incredible to me, you being his closest associate, Hairston being the head of the gang, and you go talk to him, after Fry could not see him, himself, that you would not even say to him, "Well, by golly, I got in when you could not get in."

I can't see how there could be any complete communication gap.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I am sure I mentioned to him what Eugene's welfare was, said he is fine and so on. Again, I had been in that jail a number of times. For the most part, I had been in to see Jeff Fort when I went in there. On occasion I asked Jeff how Eugene was. On other occasions when I was in there when Gene was having other visitors, I saw Gene.

But other than that, I am sure I let Reverend Fry know that Eugene Hairston was well.

Senator MUNDT. Mr. LaPaglia, on page 5 of your statement-I am still trying to check now on the credibility of one witness against another-Mr. LaPaglia, on page 5 of your statement, I quote:

Rose claimed that he and Eugene Hairston

Down near the bottom of the page—

returned from Cook County Jail in 1967. In fact, at no point in 1967 were they in Cook County Jail together.

That is your statement.
Did I quote it correctly?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

Senator MUNDT. Mr. Rose, how about it?

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE ROSE-Resumed

Mr. ROSE. I never said 1967, sir. I said 1966.
Senator MUNDT. You said 1966?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Senator MUNDT. So there is a mistake in the year?

[blocks in formation]

Senator MUNDT. Did you pay the money to Hairston that he left in the church?

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LĀPAGLIA-Resumed

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

Senator MUNDT. You made those payments?
Mr. LAPAGLIA. Well, the check was made out.

Senator MUNDT. You delivered the checks.

How long did the church continue to pay him after he was in jail? Mr. LAPAGLIA. I paid him for the entire time he was in jail.

The CHAIRMAN. For the entire time he was in jail the church paid

him $100 a week?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Is he still on the payroll of the church?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. He is still on the payroll of the church.

The CHAIRMAN. $100 a week?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. $240 a month. I am sorry; $240 every 2 weeks. Slightly over $100 a week.

The CHAIRMAN. $480 a month.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I believe that is it.

Senator MUNDT. Is Jeff Fort also still on the payroll of the church? Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes; he is.

Senator MUNDT. He is not in jail, or is he?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. He was in jail for 6 months, held there without bond, and finally his case was just dropped without any prosecution. The CHAIRMAN. Was his salary paid while he was in jail?

Senator MUNDT. You said he was paid during the time he was in jail and he is still on the payroll?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes; he is.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, these top Blackstone Rangers go to jail that are in the employ of the church, they draw their salary regularly?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What do they do in jail for the church while they are there? What service do they render the church?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. They were still, and this is what we were paying them for, they were still in charge of that organization.

The CHAIRMAN. What organization was he in charge of while he was in jail?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. The Blackstone Ranger organization.

The CHAIRMAN. He was still running the Ranger gang?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes.

Mr. ADLERMAN. I notice there were two more deletions, two paragraphs that went together.

On page 5 of the old statement:

Rose claimed that the trainees in the TWO program were forced out of school by the Rangers. This was a police claim made during the project and was rejected after a full investigation through the schools. In fact, none of the trainees had been in school for at least a year.

Can you tell me why you deleted that statement?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. Yes. There was an affidavit brought before this committee without any details as to when that happened or anything else. Rather than go into the details which I have explained to you about the 25-cent dues and so on and so forth, I thought it would be best to delete it and not get into that argument.

Mr. ADLERMAN. In other words, you changed your statement after you found out your statement was incorrect or not true?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No. I did not know whether or not it was true. Mr. ADLERMAN. Why did you change it then if you say your statement was true? Why would you change it then? Why did you take it out?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I did not want it misused. The fact was that there was no date given in that affidavit as to when Rangers were involved. Mr. ADLERMAN. You mean you did not have the evidence?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I did not have the evidence; right.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Therefore, you changed your statement because you knew we already had evidence of the fact that what your statement said was not true?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. No. I said I did not know what that statement was talking about, when it was talking about.

Mr. ADLERMAN. One more question here.

You stated:

Rose claimed that Jeff Fort had a new eight-room apartment when Rose returned from jail.

You state further:

Until a month ago Jeff Fort had no apartment and lived with his mother. Mr. Rose, will you explain your statement about Fort living in a new eight-room apartment?

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE ROSE-Resumed

Mr. ROSE. This statement pertained to, he was living with his mother but he furnished the apartment. He moved from 62d and Ingleside to 62d and University during the time that Eugene Hairston and myself were in jail and he had charge of the treasury which was $29,000 at that time.

The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Mr. Rose. $29,000 cash.

Mr. ADLERMAN. He furnished a new eight-room apartment?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you know whether it was an eight-room apartment?

Mr. ROSE. It had upstairs and downstairs.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Upstairs and downstairs?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. ADLERMAN. That is what you testified to?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you have any comment on it?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I am sorry; I didn't hear a word he said.

Mr. BRACKETT. May I have the answer read?

Mr. ADLERMAN. Jeff Fort had a new eight-room apartment when Rose returned from jail. You implied until a month ago Jeff Fort had no apartment and lived with his mother.

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I would first like to know what address he is talking about.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is this place where she moved to?

Mr. ROSE. Sixty-second and University Avenue.

The CHAIRMAN. Sixty-second and University Avenue.

Mr. BRACKETT. You can't find a building with that address.
Does he have a street address?

The CHAIRMAN. You fellows know about it. Settle it there. Where is the place?

Mr. Rose. It is just about in the middle of the block, across the street a little past the parking lot of a bank. This apartment has an upstairs and a downstairs to it. He had moved from the second floor on 62d and Ingleside to this apartment, 62d and University by the time Eugene Hairston and myself were released from the county jail in 1966, just before we went on the trip to Circle Pine, Mich.

The CHAIRMAN. Just before you went on that trip?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you recognize these places?

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LaPAGLIA-Resumed

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I recognize that he had an apartment on 62d and University. He was living there when I first met him so far as I know. The CHAIRMAN. Are you sure of that?

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you want to change your testimony on that?

Mr. LAPAGLIA. I do want to change my testimony. The first time I met him at his house, the first house I knew about was at 62d and University.

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