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from Pluto up there, beginning here on the left, Paul Hawkins, you know him, Hot Shot?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Ronald George, Lonesome, do you know him?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Ford Ransom, nicknamed Mick?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And Frank Holland, Doctor Smiley ?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why was he called Doctor? Is there any particular reason?

Mr. DORENZO. You know, he smiled a lot, gave the boys a line, so they called him Doctor.

The CHAIRMAN. Michael Martin ! Mr. DORENZO. I know him. The CHAIRMAN. You know him by the name of Skin? Mr. DORENZO. That is true. The CHAIRMAN. Michael Smith, Meathead. What was Michael Smith in the organization? Is he an officer or anything? Mr. DORENZO. No, he wasn't an officer. The CHAIRMAN. Monty Powell! You don't have a nickname for him. Mr. DORENZO. No. The CHAIRMAN. George Walker? You knew Monty Powell? Mr. DORENZO. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. You knew Walker? Mr. DORENZO. That is another one of David's bodyguards. The CHAIRMAN. Walker is another one of the bodyguards? Mr. DORENZO. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Mitchel Newton, Bull ? Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. We had a Bull in the other organization. What does this one do?

Mr. DORENZO. He was something like a sergeant at arms in a meeting

The CHAIRMAN. Frank Barksdale. Is he related to David ?
Mr. DORENZO. Not that I know of, no.
The CHAIRMAN. As far as you know, no relation?
Mr. DORENZO. No.
The CHAIRMAN. You knew him?
Mr. DORENZO. That is true.
The CHAIRMAN. As a member of the gang?
Mr. DORENZO. He was also a leader.
The CHAIRMAN. He was what?
Mr. DORENZO. He was a leader of the 43d Street Disciples.
The CHAIRMAN. Is that some satellite group?
Mr. DORENZO. That is a branch.
The CHAIRMAN. What?
Mr. DORENZO. That is a branch of the Disciples, you know.
The CHAIRMAN. Bernard Woods, Pretty Boy, what about him?
Mr. DORENZO. He was just a member.
The CHAIRMAN. Just a member?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. You know him?
Mr. DORENZO. That is true.
The CHAIRMAN. Joseph Evans?
Mr. DORENZO. I know him, too.
The CHAIRMAN. Was he a leader of one of the branches, also ?
Mr. DORENZO. That is right, the Falcon Disciples.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else? Let us get back, I wa to get this chart identified.

Let the chart be made exhibit 205A. We will get back to it a ] later.

Let it be printed at this point in the record.

(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 205A" for r ence and faces this page.)

The CHAIRMAN. Now I want to get a little further with his si tion here so that the record will show that as he testifies about t other things. As you are testifying here today you are not a men any longer of the Disciples?

Mr. DORENZO. That is true, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You left when you got out of jail ? About long ago?

Mr. DORENZO. About the middle part of March, I believe.
The CHAIRMAN. Sometime in March?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. You said you had a recent contact with Barks on the 18th of June. Is that correct?

Mr. DORENZO. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you care to tell us what happened at t time?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Tell it in your own way now. What occurred ?

Mr. DORENZO. I had a discussion with this man David Barksd which was in an office of the Joyland Ballroom.

The CHAIRMAN. In the Joyland Ballroom?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes. That is the headquarters of the Disciples.
The CHAIRMAN. Why were you down there?
Mr. DORENZO. Sir?
The CHAIRMAN. Did you say you had a discussion with him the
Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir, on that day, June 18.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did you go down there! You had quit Disciples.

Mr. DORENZO. He sent for me.

The CHAIRMAN. You arrived there. Tell us exactly what happe from the time you arrived.

Mr. DORENZO. When I come in the place there was a group of b up there with some girls. They was dancing. Dave told me to co into the office so that we could talk to each other.

All right, he asked me would I extort money from the mercha in Woodlawn.

I told him I wouldn't.
The CHAIRMAN. You told him you wouldn't?
Mr. DORENZO. That is true.
Then he carried on. He said, “Well, we have been trying to do t

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We need money because we don't have the project anymore, too many boys working and the money is going low. We need money to keep the ballroom going."

I told him I was not going to do it because I was married and I had a salary and I didn't want to get mixed up with the police anymore. I thought I made that clear to him when I left the group. They didn't try to stop me in any kind of way when I left.

The CHAIRMAN. When you left you left peacefully, so far as you know? Mr. DORENZO. That is true, because they had money when I left. The CHAIRMAN. They had money. You told them you were quitting? Mr. DORENZO. That is true. The CHAIRMAN. You had no trouble then? Mr. DORENZO. No trouble. The CHAIRMAN. That is right after you got out of jail ? Mr. DORENZO. That is true. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. Mr. DORENZO. So that then after I said no about two or three times, he said I was most qualified because I knew the merchants better than anyone in the group and he believed they would give me what I wanted because I guess from previous things that the boys went into the store and tried to get money from them, from these merchants and they would not give it, they would always reply, “We will talk to Nick about it,” you know. The CHAIRMAN. Are you Nick? Mr. DORENZO. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. The merchants would tell them that they would talk to you about it? Mr. DORENZO. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Did you get money from them before that? Mr. DORENZO. No, sir. Senator CURTIS. What do you understand by extorting

money! How were you to go into the store and what would you say? Tell us how that would be done.

Mr. DORENZO. Well, we would say, "We need pool tables,” you anything to convince him that we needed it in a constructive way and we couldn't get it, you know, not at that date.

By them having a store in that community and they knowing the force that we have, well, they probably would come through. That is what we counted on.

Senator CURTIS. If they ran a food store you would ask them for some food?

Mr. DORENZO. No, money, not food.
Senator CURTIS. Just money?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. In other words, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, I want you to make the decision-would you sort of ask for a contribution and give them the understanding that it would be good for them to make it?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. It would be no threat if I had done it, in other words, because I mean I have a way with them, you know. One of the boys, when he do something wrong they would always try to straighten

you know

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