Mr. DORENZO. Because I didn't want to go there and get myself killed.

Senator MUNDT. They were in your area?

Mr. DORENZO. In Woodlawn where I went to school.

Senator MUNDT. In order to be safe you had to discontinue going to school?

Mr. DORENZo. That is true.

Senator MUNDT. You say: "Since I will not join the Rangers, I will join the other outfit to see if we can stop the Rangers"?

Mr. DORENZo. Not at that time. It took me about a month and a half to join the Disciples. I did not quit school and go join the Disciples; no.

Senator MUNDT. You quit school and went out on the street?

Mr. DORENZO. That is right. I got me a job. I was in the Disciples and still had job. I was not too far in the activities. None of us were. We were mostly going over to Englewood in another community. Senator MUNDT. What kind of job did you have?

Mr. DORENZO. I worked at Hotpoint. I checked wires that came off the line.

Senator MUNDT. Private employment?

Mr. DORENZO. This wasn't private employment. It was a company. Senator MUNDT. You worked for a private company?

Mr. DORENZO. Hotpoint, they make

Senator MUNDT. Did you have a regular, legitimate job by some private owners who were paying you wages to work there?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator MUNDT. Why did you quit that job?

Mr. DORENZO. I got a little better one at American Airlines. Senator MUNDT. You got a better job with American Airlines. That is the old American system, you move on up. Why did you quit American Airlines?

Mr. DORENZO. Because the group had built-you know, they had a little more membership. Then I had to come out on the street with them to keep them together.

Senator MUNDT. You had to quit in order to take on the vice presidency of the Disciples?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator MUNDT. You did not get paid for that?

Mr. DORENZO. No, sir; I didn't get paid for it.

Senator MUNDT. I can't understand why a young fellow who had

a good job with the airlines

Mr. DORENZO. You can understand if you was me.

Senator MUNDT. That is a pretty good answer.

Mr. DORENZO. Thank you.

Senator MUNDT. They were using a little muscle on you in the Disciples?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.

Senator MUNDT. In other words, you got away from one gang.

Mr. DORENZO. There is a rule that everybody must go by. He had three others that helped him control this group. Whatever he said went because he was the best with the fist, you know.

Senator CURTIS. Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Curtis.

Senator CURTIS. A while ago, I believe it was about the time you were talking about the checks, you said that the Disciples got low on money and they needed money.

What did they need money for?

Mr. DORENZO. To keep the headquarters mainly, and I guess for other things.

Senator CURTIS. Did Barksdale get any of the money, himself, do you believe?

Mr. DORENZO. He kept it so he got some of it, you know. I mean collected. Like I collected $2,300. I know the group with the money we had during this program, we could have had a little business with some of this money if we wanted to start.

We had enough money to pay insurance. We had enough money to pay for a license from the city of Chicago to run this ballroom. So we could have run other things.

Senator CURTIS. That leads me to my next question. Concerning the Joyland Ballroom, where is that located?

Mr. DORENZo. 913 East 63d Street.

Senator CURTIS. Did the Disciples rent that before this OEO project came along?

Mr. DORENZO. No, sir.

Senator CURTIS. Who did rent it? I mean when it was finally rented, was it the Disciples that rented it or was it the project?

Mr. DORENZO. When we first got into the place the project was renting it. It was just for school only, you know, because the lease was in an older person's name, you know, which made a lot of money in that city years ago.

Senator CURTIS. The project rented it for the purpose of the school? Mr. DORENZO. And that is all it was used for.

Senator CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. DORENZO. Until we got it.

Senator CURTIS. Was when the Disciples got it after the project quit using it?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. Or the same time?

Mr. DORENZO. It was after the project had got into the center. Then the man decided he was going to leave, you know, and he helped me get it. The lease was in my name.

Senator CURTIS. About how big a place is it compared to this room here? Is it two or three times as large?

Mr. DORENZO. Approximately 13,000 square feet.

Senator CURTIS. Did it have more than one room?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. They had several rooms. It had restrooms upstairs, big coat rooms. The bar in it is like where you are all sitting at now. They had office spaces.

Senator ČURTIS. It was arranged for a dance hall with a bar and then dressing rooms and offices, and so on?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.

Senator CURTIS. Now about how long did the OEO project use or rent the Joyland Ballroom? You don't need to be exact.

Mr. DORENZo. I think at little over 6 weeks.

Senator CURTIS. Then the center was moved someplace else?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes. It was moved across the street.

Senator CURTIS. At that point, the Disciples decided to keep the ballroom?

Mr. DORENZo. That is true.

Senator CURTIS. Do you know what it cost?

Mr. DORENZO. $400 with insurance. When we first got it, altogether we paid $1,200.

Senator CURTIS. A month.

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. We had to put up $800 for rent, $400 for insurance.

Senator CURTIS. You had to pay some rent in advance?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. But it figured out a total of how much?

Mr. DORENZo. Per month?

Senator CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. DORENZo. About $800.

Senator CURTIS. $400 rent and about a similar amount for insurance charges?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. And about when did the Disciples take over the rent of the Joyland Ballroom?

Mr. DORENZO. It was in September or October.

Senator CURTIS. Of 1967?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. Now, during the time that the Disciples had charge of the Joyland Ballroom, what went on in there? Anything besides dances? First, let me ask you, did you use it for a dance hall?

Mr. DORENZo. We used it for a dance hall.

Senator CURTIS. You would get a band or musical group to come in?

Mr. DORENZo. We had our own band.

Senator CURTIS. You had your own band?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. Was the Joyland Ballroom open to the general public?

Mr. DORENZO. We would rent to the public, too.

Senator CURTIS. I mean when you put on the dance, could anybody come?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes; anybody could come, not just the members. Anybody could come.

Senator CURTIS. You charged admission?

Mr. DORENZo. That is true.

Senator CURTIS. You had a license to do that?

Mr. DORENZo. That is true.

Senator CURTIS. Would there be a regular dance every night?

Mr. DORENZO. Just for the members during the week. They would use it like a place they could come and hang out at, you know. On Fridays, if they didn't have rental dates for other agencies that would want to rent it.

Senator CURTIS. Sometimes a small group would be dancing there from recorded music or did you always have a band?

Mr. DORENZO. No; we had recorded music, record player.

Senator CURTIS. If you didn't have a big dance you used recorded music?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.

Senator CURTIS. Did you have a liquor license?

Mr. DORENZO. No; we didn't have a liquor license.

Senator CURTIS. Was liquor brought in there by the members?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. Frequently?

Mr. DORENZO. Every time there was a dance.

Senator CURTIS. Was dope brought in?

Mr. DORENZO. Dope was brought in.

Senator CURTIS. For use?

Mr. DORENZO. It would be passed out to some of the members, you know.

Senator CURTIS. Was it used as a place to sell dope?

Mr. DORENZO. No, never. They never sold it.
Senator CURTIS. They never packaged it?

Mr. DORENZO. No; they never packaged it.

Senator CURTIS. Is it true that most gang members are exposed to the use of some kind of dope?

Mr. DORENZO. That is true.

Senator CURTIS. Your best observation is that dope was used there by somebody most of the time it was occupied but it was not a place of packaging it or selling it?

Mr. DORENZO. No, sir. But it was used quite frequently, though, but it was not sold or packaged there.

Senator CURTIS. Did they have any guns there?

Mr. DORENZO. They had about eight guns there, you know, just for one specific group would keep their guns there.

Senator CURTIS. What group was there?

Mr. DORENZo. That was the Falcons.

Senator CURTIS. Which ones?

Mr. DORENZo. The Falcons.

Senator CURTIS. Is that a branch or subgroup of the Disciples?
Mr. DORENZO. Yes, which is headed by Joseph Evans.

Senator CURTIS. Headed by Joseph Evans?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

Senator CURTIS. Can you mention any specific type of guns you have ever seen there?

Mr. DORENZO. I have seen automatic shotguns, two of them I believe, a .22 rifle with a scope.

Senator CURTIS. Any revolvers?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, there were revolvers in there, quite a few.

Senator CURTIS. Do you remember ever seeing any .38 pearlhandled? Mr. DORENZO. Yes, that was a present to Dave on his birthday. Somebody gave him two of them for birthday, pearl handles. Senator CURTIS. Were given to Barksdale?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Did the gang do that, did they make a present of it? Mr. DORENZO. No. Two girls gave them to him.

Senator CURTIS. Can girls

Mr. DORENZO. A lot of them hang around there, yes.

Senator CURTIS. Some of them were brought in by the boys?

Mr. DORENZO. Some of them were brought in by the boys.

Senator CURTIS. What would be the age of these girls?

Mr. DORENZO. Thirteen, fourteen, on up. There was low ages, high ages.

Senator CURTIS. Did anyone during this period that the Disciples had charge of the Joyland Ballroom live there or stay there?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. About 10 members stayed there on the premises all the time.

Senator CURTIS. Any girls stay there?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, quite a few of the boys' girl friends stayed there with them.

Senator CURTIS. By staying with them, you mean for more than just a few hours?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, slept together, yes, that is what I mean.

Senator CURTIS. In reference to the sex practices going on there, was that a matter of profit?

Mr. DORENZO. No, there was no profit from it.

Senator CURTIS. Were any of the girls brought in there for sex purposes unwillingly under the fear of, as one witness put it, being handled?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. A lot of them were used against their will.
The CHAIRMAN. You mean raped?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, sir.

Senator CURTIS. In other words, they in one way or another would be given to understand that they should come along up there and do what they were told or it would be kind of rough?

Mr. DORENZO. Mainly they would just get caught in the place, you know.

Senator CURTIS. They would come there thinking they were just coming to a dance. Is that what you mean?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes. A lot of them would be marihuana, other things, Robitussin, pills.

Senator CURTIS. What is Robitussin?

Mr. DORENZO. It is a cough sirup and it has codeine in it. A man used to bring it, you know they sell it in little four-ounce bottles but he would bring it in big jugs, gallon jugs.

They would have parties. We would all have parties and things. The CHAIRMAN. What kind of party? The marihuana parties you call "pot parties"? What did you call this one?

Mr. DORENZO. It is a party. We didn't have no name for it. Everybody got high in there.

The CHAIRMAN. Everybody got what?

Mr. DORENZO. Everybody got high. They gave girls pills and things, take advantage of them, you know.

Senator CURTIS. What kind of pills are you referring to?

Mr. DORENZO. Christmas trees, yellow jackets.

Senator CURTIS. That is a dope?

Mr. DORENZO. Yes, benzedrine.

Senator CURTIS. Would the people that used pills, cough sirup, that sort of thing, have to pay or would that be furnished as part of the party?

Mr. DORENZO. It would be a little party afterwards, you know. They would go, some of them would go join the main party where you had to pay admission. Then there was always a party until three or four in the morning because we owned this, we leased the place, you know.