There was an altercation with the proprietor, as I understand it, of the restaurant, and the Chicago officers went to Eugene Hairston's home to question him.

This is when the arrest was made and the charges for resisting arrest and possession or unlawful use of weapon, and so forth.

The CHAIRMAN. What guns did they turn in, as a result of this turn-in arrangement?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. The East Side Disciples turned in two .38 revolvers, one 6.5-millimeter revolver, one machete, one hand ax, one bayonet, five knives and five zip guns.

The CHAIRMAN. Was that the Disciples?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. East Side Disciples.

The CHAIRMAN. That is part of the Disciples?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That was at St. Anslem's Church?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. At the First Presbyterian Church, where the Rangers were supposed to turn guns in, what did they turn in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. One 6.5-millimeter Japanese rifle which was inoperable. The bolt was missing.

The CHAIRMAN. It wasn't in condition to be used as a weapon?
Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, sir.

One .22-caliber rifle which was also inoperative, and one .410-gage zip gun.

The CHAIRMAN. What else?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. That was it. That was the turn-in.

The CHAIRMAN. Out of all the Rangers, you got these three weapons?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Three weapons.

The CHAIRMAN. Just three?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. That is all, sir.

Senator MUNDT. As of what date?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. The 23d of June 1966.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the West Side turn-in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. The West Side Disciples turned in one zip gun at the First Methodist Church of Englewood. That was the entire result of the turn-in.

The CHAIRMAN. You felt as if you had quite a haul?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. We weren't too dismayed because, from experiences we had out there, we had an inkling of what would happen.

The CHAIRMAN. You had come to the conclusion you weren't going to get very much cooperation, is that what you mean?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. After 2 weeks of dealing with them, yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You didn't call this a good-faith effort, did you? Mr. ZELKOVICH. May I go ahead of the questioning? When Judge Comerford asked me, when Fort and Hairston appeared before him, on the 24th, Judge Comerford asked me what were the results of the turn-in.

I couldn't lie to him and say there were no results because they did turn in something, so I hold him they cooperated to a degree.

He asked me, "What do you mean, a degree?" I said, "It was token compliance."

The CHAIRMAN. Token compliance.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. He said, "Were you satisfied?" I said, "No." So he set a bond on Jeff Fort of $10,000 and an additional $2,500 on the other individuals who were arrested.

The CHAIRMAN. On Hairston?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Hairston and Lamar Bell, and the others; I think two more.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, go ahead.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. So that was June 24.

On June 26, I received a telephone call from Reverend Fry at my office.

The CHAIRMAN. On June 26 ?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What did he say to you?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Reverend Fry proposed a new weapons turn-in by the Blackstone Rangers.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he know that Hairston and Fort had been arrested 2 nights before on this additional charge?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir, he did.

The CHAIRMAN. And they were out on a continuance to help get these weapons turned in.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. While out on that continuance they again ran into trouble with the law and were arrested?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Reverend Fry called you on the 26th. That is 2 days after.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You didn't call him.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. I didn't call him.

The CHAIRMAN. He called you?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Right.

The CHAIRMAN. Tell us what happened.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Reverend Fry proposed a new weapons turn-in project by the Rangers under his auspices. I asked him why. I said, "You people had your opportunity. You had approximately 14 days to turn in, the turn-in date being June 23d, and the results were not too successful."

I can't quote his exact words, but the conversation went to this effect, where he said:

This time, I think, I can get you the whole arsenal, carbines and handgrenades.

We had previous information that there were military carbines in the hands of the Rangers and also the Disciples, and possibly handgrenades out there.

The CHAIRMAN. How did he know this?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. I don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. Had you suggested handgrenades to him?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, sir, I didn't.

The CHAIRMAN. He suggested to you that he thought he could get those turned in, too?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Right. I said, "How do you expect to do this when our turn-in at the Federal level was unsuccessful?"

He said if he could make bond for Jeff Fort he was sure that with Fort's assistance he could get the entire arsenal turned in.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did he think Jeff Fort could get it all turned in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. I guess he felt Jeff Fort had the power and influence amongst the Rangers to do that.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether Jeff Fort was on the payroll of the church at that time or not?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, I didn't. I know that the First Presbyterian Church was their headquarters.

The CHAIRMAN. You know that was their headquarters?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you know then that Reverend Fry was their legal adviser!

Mr.ZELKOVICH. No, sir, I didn't.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not misquoting him. I am sure that is the term he applied, that he was their legal adviser.

Anyway, he called you and said if you get Jeff out on bond, he felt sure he could get the whole arsenal turned in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What happened after he gave that assurance? Mr. ZELKOVICH. I responded that, as far as I was concerned, we were out of the picture, and by "we" I was speaking for our office and for the U.S. attorney's office.

I felt that we had fulfilled our purpose just by making the Federal laws knowledgeable to these gangs.

As far as we were concerned, they couldn't plead ignorance.

We hoped to get the U.S. attorney's office to prosecute juveniles who were found in possession of these Federal violation weapons.

I told him as far as we were concerned we were out of the picture. I suggested that he call the Chicago Police Department or the Department of Investigations.

The CHAIRMAN. What did he want you to tell the judge when he called? Was there some condition that, if you would tell the judge something, he thought he would get all the weapons turned in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. He suggested if the second turn-in was good, this was on the part of Jeff Fort, would I relay the results of this turn-in to Judge Comerford.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, if he was able to get them to do a pretty good job of turning them in, you would relate that to the judge?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, go ahead.

Did

you offer to do that or agree to do that?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No; I didn't agree to anything.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. As I told you before, as far as we were concerned, we were out of the picture. I wasn't about to go through another 2 weeks of haranguing with these people.

The CHAIRMAN. Of what?

Mr.ZELKOVICH. Haranguing, arguing, dealing with them.

The CHAIRMAN. You had enough of them?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. I had had enough of them; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any faith in what they would do? Mr. ZELKOVICH. Not after the results of the June 23 turn-in.

The CHAIRMAN. Not after that? You had no more confidence as to their good faith in their bargaining?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Didn't you take Reverend Fry's word for it?
Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. As I said I wasn't present at the First Presbyterian Church on the 23d when weapons were turned in. I was over at St. Anselm's Church. But the two agents from Alcohol Tax who were present at the First Presbyterian said that Reverend Fry told them that these were all the weapons that the Rangers had in their arsenal or were available to the Rangers.

The CHAIRMAN. He was representing to the Federal agents, your assistants or your associates, on February 23 that what they had turned in at that time, which you have described here, three weapons, were all of the weapons that the Rangers had and all the weapons that were available to them?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what they reported to you?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Who are those men?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Special Investigators Edward Truchu and Norman Kuehni.

The CHAIRMAN. We may want to talk to you further about that. Proceed and tell us what happened.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. On the morning of June 28

The CHAIRMAN. You had suggested to him to contact the Chicago police?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Then on the morning of the 28th, what happened? Mr. ZELKOVICH. I received a telephone call from Thomas Russell, investigator of the city of Chicago, department of investigations. Mr. Russell stated that he had received a phone call from Reverend Fry in which Reverend Fry proposed a weapons turn-in by the Blackstone Rangers.

This was the same proposal that was made to me.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, he had then gone to the police as you suggested, making his proposal to them?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. He called the city of Chicago, department of investigations.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that part of the police force?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, sir; it isn't.

The CHAIRMAN. What is it?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. It is an investigating body. I think it comes out of the mayor's office.

The CHAIRMAN. This agency is under the department of the mayor? Mr.ZELKOVICH. That is right, in the city of Chicago.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Mr. Russell told me that he was to attend a meeting that night with Reverend Fry and he wanted to know if I was willing

to sit in on this meeting because perhaps some Federal-violation-type weapons would be turned in, or I would be of any assistance to him. I agreed I would.

On the evening of the 28th, Mr. Russell, myself, Reverend Fry, his assistants, Reverend Walker-Charles Walker and Charles LaPaglia were present at the First Presbyterian Church. It was in the evening. The CHAIRMAN. Russell is from the investigator's staff?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And yourself, Fry, Walker, and LaPaglia. There were five of you in that meeting?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Other people would walk in and walk out again, but the main discussion group was us five.

The CHAIRMAN. You said others were walking in. Who did they represent?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. I imagine they were church personnel. I had no idea.

The CHAIRMAN. They were not in the conference?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. No, they weren't.

The CHAIRMAN. You five were all that were in the conference?
Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. So the terms of a new turn-in were discussed. This is when Reverend Fry brought out the insistence that, if the turn-in was good, would Investigator Russell and I appear before Judge Comerford on Fort's trial date, which was July 7, 1966, and convey the results of this turn-in to Judge Comerford in order to cast a favorable light upon Fort.

We agreed we would.

The CHAIRMAN. You then made arrangements that, if they would make a good turn-in, you would do what with the court?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. We would convey the results of the turn-in that Jeff Fort had assisted in.

The CHAIRMAN. You would report to the judge that Jeff Fort had assisted and there had been a good turn-in?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Right.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, go ahead.

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Then my understanding was well, the meeting broke up on these terms.

The CHAIRMAN. When was Fort's trial to be held then?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. July 7, 1966.

Then I had information that Fort was released on bond on June 29, which was the next morning, the next day.

The CHAIRMAN. Was he?

Mr. ZELKOVICH. Yes, sir, he was.

On July 1, Investigator Russell contacted me, stating that there would be another meeting at the First Presbyterian Church with reference to the turn-in of weapons by the Blackstone Rangers.

At this meeting, Investigator Russell, myself, Reverend Walker, Charles LaPaglia, Jeff Fort, and Lamar Bell were present. Reverend Fry was not present at this meeting.

We had the understanding that he was on vacation. This was July 1. At this meeting, the same terms were reiterated, but then they brought up-Reverend Walker insisted that the weapons that were