Let us face it. Chicago is a city of approximately 4 million people. Can you imagine a city that large with the whole town crawling with police cars with rifles pointed out the windows.

Somebody who read this article that does not know Chicago will say, "My God, what kind of place is that?"

I think that is unfair to the people of the city of Chicago. As a resident, I further don't think it is fair.

Senator MUNDT. At one point in the "black paper" he was complaining because there were no squad cars around. He says if you had a few patrol cars, everything would have been fine, you would have had peace and order. The police were neglecting their duty and were not giving the kind of protection that the people should have. Lieutenant BUCKNEY. That is true.

Senator MUNDT. The two papers don't jibe.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

The committee will stand in recess until 2:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m. the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m. the same day.)

(Members present at time of recess: Senators McClellan and Mundt.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:40 p.m., Senator John L. McClellan, chairman, presiding.)

(Members of the subcommittee present at the time of reconvening were Senators McClellan and Mundt.)

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would observe that we hope to finish with this witness today. I am not going to cut him off. If he does not get through, we will come back.

This morning I indulged the witness to read long statements that I had not had an opportunity to read because on the face of them they appeared to be pertinent. Since the police department, in particular his unit, has been attacked by some of the elements that we are investigating, I feel he should be given an opportunity to make adequate defense to it and offer his defense to refute any charges that he feels are false or unfair.

We do want, however, to move along, and wherever you have, may I say this to you, wherever you have a lengthy document or something that is pertinent, if you can do so, read excerpts from it and we will let the document be printed in the record in full. Otherwise we will take up a lot of time reading something that can be read later and be just as effective. Your cooperation that way will be helpful. I am not trying to cut you off from anything that you want to say that is pertinent to this inquiry or any evidence that should be received by the committee. We are simply in a situation where we are trying to expedite it as much as we can.

Very well. You may proceed.

TESTIMONY OF LT. EDWARD L. BUCKNEY-Resumed

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Mr. Chairman, I believe there has been a series of documents made available which will be presented to you from which I will talk briefly about this afternoon.

The CHAIRMAN. Identify the documents.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. They are listed as numbers 1 through 23.

The CHAIRMAN. 1 through 23, a series of documents which you submit?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be received at this point and made exhibit 207-A, B, C, and so forth.

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits No. 207A through 207W," inclusive, for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)

The CHAIRMAN. You may identify them as you go along. You can read excerpts from them and make such comments as you think pertinent.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Very good.

There is, however, one that apparently you do not have. It is in relation to something I mentioned this morning about sometimes the publicity that is attributed to the gangs makes it difficult for us to fight this kind of problem. I have in front of me an article which appeared in the Daily News of May 12, 1967, which is entitled, "Sorry, fellows, the gang is busy." It is an article in which a group of White House fellows after 7 months of working here in Washington, arrange to meet the Rangers, and the Rangers didn't show up for that particular luncheon.

There were some statements attributed to-Reverend Fry was interviewed and made a statement at that time in defense of the Rangers. He mentioned

After all, some of the Rangers recently got $75 apiece for lecturing at Lake Forrest Community College. What can White House fellows do for the Blackstone Rangers?

The CHAIRMAN. You mean they had an appointment with some White House representatives?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And they didn't show up?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. They didn't show up, that is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Where was this appointment to be?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. It was in Chicago. I don't think it indicates where. They met in an East 63d Street restaurant. That is all it indicates. But they were talking about opening a restaurant, themselves: they were meeting with Oscar Brown, Jr., and did not show up for the meeting. There were 17 men and one woman in the program that were young business executives who spent a year working with the President, Vice President, White House and Cabinet officers.

Calling your attention to document No. 1, this was the article that I mentioned this morning, called "Organization Men," which was written in Newsweek magazine. It mentions some of the things that have occurred.

For example, the Rangers formed a corporation to run a restaurant which is still on the Rangers' back burner. I might comment on that. Last year when we originally got into this entire story we had heard that the Rangers were going to incorporate. The reason that this came up was that there was a story at the time that if a grant was issued, that it could be issued directly to an incorporated not-for-profit agency. We discovered at that time that the Rangers had incorporated

themselves in the State of Illinois to do business to the tune of $192,000. That ties in with that particular statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this Ranger group now a legal corporate entity? Lieutenant BUCKNEY. It was incorporated in the State of Illinois last year, yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Last year?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN Very well.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. This is also the article. It mentions where they stood up the White House fellows. They staged a musical. They had lunch with Senator Javits and various other things that were alluded to this morning in my testimony.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't know that that has anything to do with this inquiry. Get to the point that is pertinent to this inquiry.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. I think it is very important in the sense that, where the police are involved in trying to deal with the problem, we are overruled oftentimes by this kind of favorable press which was brought out in the earlier testimony in the inquiry.

Moving to document No. 2, this deals directly with the TWO issues in the sense that it is a report which indicates that Lamar Bell, who was at that time, I believe, the No. 3 or No. 4 man in the Rangers, split with the group. The reason that he split with the group was because the group indicated that prior to the issuance of the grant they were under the impression that they were going to be given a large sum of money from the Government with which they could do anything they wanted. In other words, the money was to be split up among themselves. They already plotted out they would be able to buy themselves new cars, clothes, that sort of thing.

The CHAIRMAN. Whose report is this?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Two of the officers present in the committee room submitted the report.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this a police report?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. This is a police report.

The CHAIRMAN. A report of an interview with Lamar Bell?
Lieutenant BUCKNEY. That is right.

It also came up at this time that there was an issue arose in which Lamar Bell was attributed to have been involved in a group which was going to assassinate the mayor or something to that effect. There was a complaint made to the police department. Lamar was talked to about it. I think he was exonerated. It was determined that this was another fellow or something to that effect. But we had a lengthy interview with him.

He indicated his disenchantment with the program because he felt being the leader of the Ranger group, that if there was going to be money available to work with the Rangers, he should be able to open the theater and produce the Ranger shows.

He was told this was not the case, and he divorced himself from the program. I think the records will indicate that he did not at anytime participate in the TWO program.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. In view of some of the articles that were mentioned this morning and also the fact that, as you indicated. I particularly have been under attack and my unit and the police de

partment in general, in document No. 3 there is a letter written by Reverend Fry. The letter was written in response to an inquiry made to the Charles F. Kettering Foundation to determine whether or not they had approved a grant to the Rangers.

The gentleman who was to reply to the letter was on vacation. Mr. Kettering forwarded the letter to Reverend Fry for answer. The answer is stated here.

If I may, I would like to read that.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is your letter that he is replying to?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Apparently it is in a different we have a different file and it is not in this particular book.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to have that letter attached to this exhibit C which you have marked 3, your reply. I would like to have that letter attached so that we will know what it is all about.

Will you supply it?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Let it be attached to exhibit C.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Shall I proceed?

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, you may proceed.
Lieutenant BUCKNEY. It says:

Dear Lieutenant Buckney:

Your letter to the Kettering Foundation was referred to us by Mr. Charles Kettering. We were shocked by your letter. It discloses assumptions that we shall most surely bring to the attention of your superiors, assumptions so mistaken that your very function as a unit commander of the gang intelligence unit is called into question.

The contents of the letter cannot be separated from your conduct on June 6th. On that day you sought to detain, illegally, twenty-five young men who were meeting with federal administrators and officials of The Woodlawn Organization in the T.W.O. office. Failing that, you sought to use the weight of your badge to secure information to which you had no legal title. Under no democratic doctrine of surveillance can you find sanction for the para-legal, in fact, political activity in which you, that day, indulged. No Supreme Court would uphold your conduct or the intent of your conduct.

Your letter, under the guise of seeking information, seeks to tell the Kettering Foundation that it has made a grant without thought of potentially negative consequences. The Kettering Foundation, for your information, is one of the most prestigious foundations in the United States. It is outrageous to suppose that a Police Department and letterhead and a "gang intelligence officer" title would somehow deter this foundation from its intentions. What is most outrageous is the plain fact that all the information you desire in your letter was already available to you right here in Chicago, as near as your telephone. You did not seek information from us. You did not call us. You did not visit us. You did not request us to visit you.

When all the information you sought in your letter was at your fingertips we can only infer that your purpose in writing the letter was not to secure information but to intimidate, and, failing that, to corrupt the relationship between the First Presbyterian Church of Chicago and the Kettering Foundation. The occasion for this inference was supplied by you and your colleagues on June 6th when you sought to corrupt the relationship between T.W.O., the leaders of the Blackstone Rangers, the leaders of the East Side Disciples, and Washingtonbased representatives of the Office of Economic Opportunity.

The CHAIRMAN. I see he wrote a letter apparently that is attached to your exhibit here. He wrote a letter to William Duffy, director of intelligence, city of Chicago, Department of Police, on the same date. Lieutenant BUCKNEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In which he asked that you be transferred.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. That is true. I did not know this until just a week ago because I assumed from the way he wrote the signatures of he and the secretary, that identical copies went to the superintendent and to Mr. Duffy, who is not my boss by the way.

I found by surprise the letter he wrote to the superintendent and Mr. Duffy was an entirely different letter.

The CHAIRMAN. You did not know about this letter until a week ago? Lieutenant BUCKNEY. That is right.

I would like to call attention to the fact how he signed this letter, "With sincere anger, John R. Fry, Pastor, First Presbyterian Church." The CHAIRMAN. He still is possessed of a little anger against you from the way he testifies in this letter here.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. That is very true, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Proceed.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. I have in front of me again a document which was not, of which apparently a copy was not given to you, which indicates that the person we talked to had information that the Illinois Bell, Jewel Tea Co., and National Tea Co., and other large businesses were supplying the Ranger group with money in the form of contributions.

The CHAIRMAN. Which one is that now?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. This is apparently one that was not, I indicated there should have been a copy made of, and apparently there

was not.

The CHAIRMAN. Let it be received and made an additional exhibit. Lieutenant BUCKNEY. The notation reads that

The subject had knowledge that the contributions are to encourage the youth groups not to commit violence and crimes against property.

The CHAIRMAN. Move on to the next one.

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. This is a very important one, again apparently you do not have a copy of it.

The CHAIRMAN. What is that you are reading from?

Lieutenant BUCKNEY. This is again a police report dated August 30, 1967, in which the person interviewed stated that Reverend Fry never has given any talks, lectures, or speeches in the Woodlawn area or any Negro neighborhood but has often given speeches, lectures, talks in the suburbs and white areas.

The informant went on to state that it was his belief that Reverend Fry's intention was to keep a distance between Negroes and whites. The CHAIRMAN. Let that be printed in the record at this point. (The report referred to follows:)

REPORT, GANG INTELLIGENCE, CHICAGO POLICE, AUGUST 30, 1967

Information received that it has been observed that the Rev. Fry of the 1st Presbyterian Church, 6400 S. Kimbark Ave., never has given any talks, lectures or speeches in the Woodlawn Area, or any Negro neighborhoods but, has often given speeches, lectures and talks in the suburbs and white areas. Informant went on to state that his belief is that the Rev. Fry's intentions are to keep a distance between Negroes and whites.

It was further stated that Rev. Fry of the 1st Presbyterian Church, 6400 S. Kimbark Avenue, and Rev. Brazier of the T.W.O., 1129 E. 63rd Street, have interest in the youths of the Woodlawn area for personal gains. Rev. Fry for monetary gains and stature as a clergyman, Rev. Brazier for monetary gains and political aspirations to become the area alderman.