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in a poolroom when he is supposed to be in training. What are you going to do about it?” They never did that.

The CHAIRMAN. What about your own inspectors? You had somebody supervising?

Reverend BRAZIER. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was supervising this center? Who was the supervisor of this center No.1?

Reverend BRAZIER. There was no supervisor of the centers in that regard, Senator. I think what we need to do is to put up to show you the structure of this whole program because there has been a lot of statements made that the youth ran the program, that the program was turned over to the youth. I think if you allow me to put into the record the chart that we have here to give this committee the full extent, the information that you really need to come to real conclusions, it will be helpful, to show you the structure of this program.

The CHAIRMAN. We will let you put in the chart. I want you to answer a few questions.

Did you have a supervisor of center No. 1 ?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Who?
Reverend BRAZIER. Different professionals at different times.
The CHAIRMAN. Name them.
Reverend BRAZIER. Paul Black.
The CHAIRMAN. Was he on the payroll, Federal payroll !
Reverend BRAZIER. He was part of this project.
The CHAIRMAN. Was he on the Federal payroll?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Who else?
Reverend BRAZIER. Frank Hunter.
The CHAIRMAN. Who else?

Reverend Brazier. Sol Ice; none of whom are subprofessionals; these are all professionals.

The CHAIRMAN. Which one of them was in charge of this center No. 1?

Reverend BRAZIER. No one was in charge of center No. 1 to that estent, Senator. I want to explain it to you. Let me get to this board here and give this committee some understanding of what happened.

The CHAIRMAN. Wait. Answer my question and then we will get to the chart. Was there any supervisor or any other one person of authority in charge of center No.1?

Reverend BRAZIER. There was no person in charge of any center as such, but only when they were there, you see.

The CHAIRMAN. What happened when they were not there; who was in charge?

Reverend Brazier. If you will give me an opportunity to explain the operations of this program, your question would be answered.

The CHAIRMAN. I am going to let you explain. I am trying to find out if anybody was in charge.

Reverend Brazier. Yes, there were. I would like you to noticefirst of all, it has been said over and over again

The CHAIRMAN. Let the chart which the witness proposes to present be printed in the record and also made exhibit No. 215.

(Document referred to was marked "exhibit No. 215" for reference and follows:)

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The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Now you are presenting a chart; you may explain it.

Reverend BRAZIER. As was said over and over again by witnesses, that we turned this program over to the youth groups, now that is incorrect. The Woodlawn Organization, which was composed of a hundred block clubs, has what we call a house of delegates. They are the governing body of this organization. They met once a month. The steering committee, which is in charge of the ongoing operation of the Woodlawn Organization, meets once a week.

I, as the president and executive director, am responsible to the steering committee and the house of delegates. From my office as executive director we have an acting project director who is in charge of the project.

The CHAIRMAN. What is his name?
Reverend BRAZIER. Anthony C. Gibbs.
Senator Curtis. May I ask one brief question ?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
Senator CURTIS. Is he project director for all of the activities?
Reverend BRAZIER. No, just this one project.
Senator Curtis. This one particular project under investigation?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.

Now, from the project director we hired the Xerox Corp. to formulate the curriculum for this project. We hired the Chicago Urban League to do the job development. We hired Arthur Andersen & Co. to give us monthly reviews so they could show us where we might be getting off. Now we come down

The CHAIRMAN. Just a moment before you leave those.
Did you pay these organizations out of this $917,000?
Reverend BRAZIER. These groups here?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, those three?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. What was each of them paid?

Reverend BRAZIER. The Xerox contract probably ran something like $30,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Were they to prepare the curriculum?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. They did that?
Reverend BRAZIER. They did.
The CHAIRMAN. For $30,000?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. The next one.

Reverend BRAZIER. The Chicago Urban League had a contract for $84,000.

The CHAIRMAN. To do what?
Reverend BRAZIER. To develop jobs for the youth in the program.
The CHAIRMAN. $84,000 ?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. The next one.

Reverend BRAZIER. Arthur Andersen & Co., we signed a contract with them for $18,000.

The CHAIRMAN. For what?

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Reverend BRAZIER. To give monthly reviews of our financial procedure so that we would always be operating this program on as much of a sound fiscal basis as possible.

Now, I do not think that the Urban League or Arthur Andersen & Co. has actually received the amount of money that the contract called for.

Now, over here we had the monitoring unit. Now we are talking about cooperation with the police. We met with the Chicago police downtown at the local, regional Office of Economic Opportunity twice a month.

Senator MUNDT. Who are “we”?

Reverend BRAZIER. When I was acting project director I met with them. The monitor from OEO, Mr. George Holland, a representative from the city of Chicago, the Chicago Committee on Urban Opportunity, we all met, the Chicago police, the Chicago Committee on Urban Opportunity, which is a city agency, and DEO and myself, we met twice a month to discuss the project.

So the idea that we did not cooperate with the police is not altogether a true picture.

Now we had four people, the vocational education supervisor
The CHAIRMAN. Who was he?
Reverend BRAZIER. Frank Hunter.
The CHAIRMAN. What was he paid !
Reverend BRAZIER. $10,000; something like that.
The CHAIRMAN. About $10,000.
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes, sir. The job actually called for—
The CHAIRMAN. Was he a professional?

Reverend BRAZIER. Yes. The job actually called for, I think, maybe $14,000 or $12,000, something like that.

We had the basic education supervisor

The CHAIRMAN. Can you supply us now with the salaries of all these people?

Reverend BRAZIER. I can.

The CHAIRMAN. You don't have to do it right now. But supply the salary for the record for each one of them.

(The information requested follows:)

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TWO YOUTH PROJECT PROFESSIONAL STAFF EMPLOYED DURING FISCAL YEAR 1967-68

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Reverend BRAZIER. The supportive services supervisor

The CHAIRMAN. You have the basic education supervisor, what is he paid?

Reverend BRAZIER. $14,000 I believe.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the next one?
Reverend BRAZIER. Supportive services supervisor.
Senator Mundt. Did you give us his name?

Reverend BRAZIER. Paul Black, basic education supervisor. We hired Paul Black out of Forestville High School. He was a teacher out of Forestville High School.

The supportive services supervisor was Mr. Solon Ice. I will supply you with his salary rate as well.

Then we had a social counselor who is actually the assistant to supportive services supervisor.

Senator MUNDT. What was his name?
Reverend BRAZIER. Everett McCleary.

Now these men basically rotate from center to center because the whole idea, the whole thrust of the project was to try to see how much responsibility that this population could be entrusted with to help develop and carry out a program in which they had a meaningful part to play.

Senator Mundt. You had four centers altogether?
Reverend BRAZIER. Yes, that is correct.
Senator MUNDT. Two for the Disciples and two for the Rangers?

Reverend BRAZIER. That is correct. These gentlemen rotated among them. We tried to have one in each center all the time, but that was not possible due to the nature of their job. The assistant project directors all came down under here and they follow the instructions of these professional people.

Senator CURTIS. How many were there?
Reverend BRAZIER. There were two assistant project directors.
Senator CURTIS. What were their names?

Reverend BRAZIER. One was Leroy Hairston. The other was Minjo Shead. Leroy Hairston is Eugene Hairston's brother.

Senator MUNDT. What was his occupation before this?
Reverend BRAZIER. I haven't the slightest idea.
Senator MUNDT. You don't know whether he was a professional?
Reverend BRAZIER. He is not a professional; no.
Senator MUNDT. Who was the other one?
Reverend BRAZIER. Minjo Shead of the East Side Disciples.

You will note that these center chiefs are way down at the bottom and were not up at the top running the program.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let us see. You have mentioned four center chiefs, have you, four different centers?

Reverend BRAZIER. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you give their names?
Reverend BRAZIER. I didn't give you the center chiefs' names.

The CHAIRMAN. Start on the left and give us the center chiefs names.

Reverend BRAZIER. The center chief for center I was Fletcher Pugh.

The CHAIRMAN. I thought it was Jeff Fort. But whatever you say. All right, Fletcher Pugh.

Reverend BRAZIER. The center chief for No. 2 was Mickey Cogwell.
The CHAIRMAN. That is a Disciple?
Reverend BRAZIER. No; he is a Ranger.
The CHAIRMAN. Who is the next one?

Reverend BRAZIER. The center chief for No. 3 was Robert Allen. That is the East Side Disciples. Center chief for No. 4 was David Barksdale.

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