nature of the appointments, and the dates thereof. 3. A Return of the number of offi HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, December 11. STAMFORD ELECTION-PETtition of Mr. NOEL AND OTHERS.] A Petition of Gerard Noel Noel esq. William John Tatam, of the borough of Stamford, and William Lowe Peake, of the said borough, butcher, was read; setting forth, attention of the House to a circumstance which had not been noticed, the affectation which so generally and ridiculously pre-cers belonging to the 60th regiment of foot vailed of imitating the dress of foreign sol- having staff appointments at home, specidiers. All characteristics of English re-fying the nature of the appointments and giments, especially in the cavalry, were the dates thereof." completely obliterated. From the known predilection for this dress in a certain quarter, our troops were so Germanised or Frenchified in their appearance, that the most serious consequences were to be apprehended. In more than one instance, this mischievous apish imitation had proved fatal. In fact, English soldiers had fallen, and English officers had been taken prisoners in consequence of mistaking a corps of French troops for our own, and in the retreat from Salamanca, one of our officers was near being killed by order of a brother officer, who supposed him to be French. Notwithstanding the general sense entertained on this subject by the army, either remonstrances had not reached the source from which the remedy must spring, or had been ineffectual; so far had taste prevailed over judgment. Whatever might be our admiration of foreign troops employed with our own, there was surely no need to confound the two services together; each might retain a distinct uniform and independent character of its own. He could not abstain from expressing his concern at the conclusion of the speech of a right hon. gentleman (Mr. Canning), who after the strongest and most pointed arguments in favour of the propriety of the motion, expressed in language which only that gentleman could command, had declared his intention of voting against it. This conduct of the right hon. gentleman was, however, nothing new he had been a good deal in the habits of speaking on one side of the question, and giving his vote on the other; nor should be, after that night, ever think himself entitled to calculate upon his support in a division from the arguments he might have made use of in the course of the debate. The original motion was then negatived without a division. The other motions of lord Folkestone were then agreed to as follows: 1. "That there be laid before this House, a Return of the number of foreign officers and soldiers serving in British regiments, distinguishing the officers from the soldiers, and specifying the regiments in which they are serving. 2. A Return of the number of foreigners having staff appointments at home, specifying the "That, at the last election for the said borough held on the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th of October last, the petitioner Gerard Noel Noel, together with lord Henniker and Evan Foulkes, attorney at law, were candidates, and the petitioners W. J. Tatam, and W. L. Peake, had a right to vote at such election; and that the petitioner G. N. Noel was injured in his said election, and the other petitioners in their right of voting at the same, by reason that the said election was not held in the usual place in which, from time whereof the memory of man is not to the contrary, the election of burgesses to represent the said borough in parliament have accustomed to be held, notwithstanding the place used for holding the election was objected to by the petitioner G. N. Noel, and by reason that the person who was appointed by Mr. Jeremiah Belgrave, the mayor of the said borough, and returning officer at the said election, on the 1st, 2d, and 3d days of the election, to be his assessor, viz. James Torkington esq. barrister at law, and which assessor or assistant was continued in the same employment by Mr. Henry Parker West, the succeeding mayor of the said borough, and returning officer for the said election, on the 4th and last day of the said election, was not appointed with the approbation of the petitioner G. N. Noel, and did manifestly discover partiality in favour of the said lord Henniker and Evan Foulkes, in his decisions on the votes taken; and by reason that James Tomlinson, who was the sworn clerk to take the poll at the said election, did notoriously alter one of the rates of the parish of Saint Mary, in the said borough, after the same had been signed by the magistrates, thereby to impose upon the returning officer, and to enable one Robert Miller to vote, and thereby to promote the Davis and E. Protheroe esquires; and did also, by gifts and rewards, and promises, election of the said lord Henniker and Evan Foulkes; and that the name of the right hon. lord Brownlow, the lord lieute-agreements, and securities for gifts and nant of Lincoln, and a peer and member of the Lords House of parliament, was made use of to influence the votes of electors at this election, in favour of the said lord Henniker and Evan Foulkes; and that the petitioners W. J. Tatam and W. L. Peake, did severally tender their votes at the said election for the said G. N. Noel, (that is to say), both of them on the 2d day of the said poll, and were unjustly hindered from polling, and refused to be received on the poll, by the said J. Belgrave, and J. Torkington; and that other legal votes tendered for the said G. N. Noel were rejected, and other persons not legally entitled to vote, were admitted to vote; and that sundry voters were induced by threats, and other corrupt means, to vote against the petitioner G. N. Noel, who might otherwise have been at the head of the poll; and praying the House to take the premises into consideration." Ordered to be taken into consideration on the 23d of February. BRISTOL ELECTION-PETITION OF MR. HUNT AND OTHERS.] A Petition of Henry Hunt, of Rowfant House, in the county of Sussex, esq., William Pimm, of Bristol, salesman, Thomas Pimm, currier, William Weetch, clothier, and Thomas Gammage, cabinet-maker, was read; setting forth," rewards, corrupt and procure divers other persons, being qualified to vote at the said election, to refuse and forbear to give their votes at the same for the petitioner the said H. Hunt, or the other candidate, contrary to the laws and statutes enacted for the prevention of bribery and corrup tion; and that the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe, by themselves, their agents, &c. were guilty of the most flagrant and notorious acts of intimidation, thereby basely and unlawfully procuring, by threats, divers other persons, being quali fied to vote at the said election, through the fear of being persecuted, ruined, imprisoned, and otherwise ill used and punished, to forbear to give their votes for the petitioner the said H. Hunt, or the other candidate in violation of the rights of the electors, the privileges of parliament, and the freedom of election; and that the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe, by themselves, their agents, &c. after the teste of the writ for the said election, and before the election of the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe, did give, present, and allow to divers persons who had votes, or claimed or pretended to have a right to vote at such election, money, &c. in order to their the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe being elected, and to procure them to be returned for the said city in violation of the standing order and regulations of the House, and in defiance of the laws and statutes of the realm enacted for the preventing charge and expence in the election of members to serve in parliament; and that a large body of military, consist ing of the Middlesex militia, were quartered within two miles of the said city, many of whom were actually stationed within the walls of the said city during the whole of the said election; and that col. Gore, commandant of the Bristol vo "That_the_petitioners W. Pimm, T. Pimm, W. Weetch, and T. Gammage, now are, and, at the time of the last election were electors of the said city, and claim to have a right to vote, and did vote at the said election; and, at the said election, the petitioner H. Hunt, together with Richard Hart Davis esq. Edward Protheroe esq. and sir Samuel Romilly knight, were candidates to represent the said city in this present parliament; and that the said R. H. Davis esq. and Edward Protheroe esq. by themselves, their agents, friends, mana-lunteers, gave orders the day before the gers, committees, partizans, and others on his and their behalf, previous to and at the said election, were guilty of gross and notorious bribery and corruption, and, at and during the said election, and previous thereto, the said R. H. Davis and the said E. Protheroe, by themselves, their agents, &c. did corrupt and procure divers persons, as well those who were qualified to vote, as those who claimed or pretended to have a right to vote at the said election, to give their votes for them the said R. H. (VOL. XXIV.) election commenced, to have two pieces for this limitation of the time in steeping barley, was avowedly to prevent frauds ed by the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe, or their agents, &c. &c. under the denomination of bludgeonmen or pretend-upon the revenue; but as no such frauds ed constables; and that various sums of money were paid by the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe, or by the agents, committees, friends, managers, or others on their behalf, to influence such of them as were entitled to vote, or pretended to have a right to vote at the said election, and to induce them to give their votes for the said R. H. Davis and E. Protheroe esquires; and that the poll was closed by the sheriffs, the returning officers, two days sooner than by law directed, notwithstanding the petitioner, the said H. Hunt, openly protested against it, several freemen at that time having offered to poll for the said H. Hunt, which votes were refused to be taken and entered on the poll, and notwithstanding the sheriffs were publicly informed that many other voters were on the road, who were coming with the intent to poll at the said election; and praying, that the House will take the premises into their most serious consideration, and that the election and return of the said R. H. Davis esq. and E. Protheroe esquire, may be declared to be null and void." Ordered to be taken into consideration on the 25th of February. MALT-DUTY BILL.] On the order of the day for the second reading of this *Bill, Mr. W. Dundas rose on the part of the maltsters of Scotland, from whom he had received such a representation as urged him, from a strong sense of duty, to call the attention of the House to this subject. It appeared to him, indeed, that if the limitation fixed in the measure before the House were insisted upon, there would be no malting in Scotland, and of course there would be no duty. According to the act of last year, the time allowed for steeping barley was settled at 55 hours; but this being found quite insufficient for the maltsters of Yorkshire and the northern counties, this Bill was introduced to correct that mistake, and to extend the time to 65 hours, because from the comparative inferiority of the barley in these districts, such extension was found absolutely necessary. Now what he had to require on the part of his countrymen was, that as they were still more northerly, and their barley still inferior from the inferiority of the soil, a still farther extension might be granted to them. The reason assigned could be charged on the Scotch maltsters, by whom none such had been committed, the excise of last year having been unusually productive, amounting indeed to 130,000l. that reason could not be pressed against them. For them, therefore, he felt himself justified in urging a claim of extension to 75 hours, which extension they deemed indispensibly necessary to carry on their trade. He was sorry to find that this appeal and that of his friends in Scotland, to his friend (Mr. Wharton,) had been found totally unavailing. Yet when the Scotch maltsters laid their case before the commissioners of excise in Scotland, between whom and them there was, as in such relations generally, a natural antipathy, the commissioners were so struck by the grievance to which the maltsters were subjected, that they allowed an extension of the time for steeping malt, to 80 hours. This allowance was made in October, 1812; but upon reference to his hon. friend, the boon was ordered to be revoked. All he asked then, if it was not wished to extinguish the Seotch maltsters, and so to injure both agriculture and the revenue, was, that the very peculiar circumstances in which the Scotch maltsters were placed should be reconsidered-at all events, that provision should be made in the Bill, investing the commissioners of the excise in Scotland, or the commissioners of the treasury in England, with a discretionary power to grant the extension of time required by the Scotch maltsters if they should succeed in making out a case worthy of such extension. Mr. Lascelles, on the part of the maltsters of Yorkshire, protested against any disposition to commit fraud, in requiring the extension of time proposed to be granted by this Bill; these maltsters having, indeed, themselves suggested a penalty upon fraud, the infliction of which must nearly produce the ruin of the guilty. He was glad, therefore, that the application of his constituents had been attended to; but if the object of that application should not, upon trial, be found fully answered by the provisions of the Bill, he should, seeing a clause in the Bill, allowing its repeal or amendment in the course of the session, feel himself competent to apply for a futher extension of time for the steeping of malt in Yorkshire. Mr. Wharton felt confident, that the ob ready rather to release some part of the system necessary to check frauds, than to wish any injury or undue inconvenience to the fair trade. Mr. Dundas asked, whether the convictions for fraud upon the excise in Scotland adverted to by his hon. friend, did not relate to the manufacture of whisky, and not to malting? Mr. Wharton answered in the negative. MOTION FOR servations of his right hon. friend were totally founded in mistake; and if he could shew that the premises were incorrect, the House would know how to appreciate his conclusions. His right hon. friend had asserted the inferiority of the barley used by maltsters in Scotland, whereas, in point of fact, that barley was generally of the very finest quality. The grain alluded to by his right hon. friend, and upon which he appeared to have received some information, was not barley, but big; and even that grain, growing upon land generally let at from 8 to 101. an acre, could not be set down as so inferior, or the growth of land so poor in quality, as his right hon. friend had stated. But his Mr. Whitbread conceiving the Report right hon. friend had been generally mis- about to be presented to be that of the informed upon this subject, although re- Gold Coin Bill, thought proper, before it ferring to his native country. There was was presented, to submit a motion to the no doubt, a great deal of poor land in House. Having failed to make the right Scotland, which, of course, would grow hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer poor grain. But it was notorious, that the ashamed of the third Resolution inserted greater part of the barley used by the on the Journals in May last, declaring Scotch maltsters, was of the very best" That the promissory notes of the said quality, being the growth of Norfolk. company have hitherto been, and are at This Norfolk barley was, in fact, bought this time, held in public estimation to be cheaper in Edinburgh, than in London; equivalent to the legal coin of the realm, and if then the proposition of his right hon. and generally accepted as such in all pefriend, or rather the petition of the Scotch cuniary transactions to which such coin maltsters, which applied for an extension is lawfully applicable," he thought it neof 100 hours, were acceded, the conse-cessary, for the sake of truth and the cha quence would be, that such barley might racter of the House, to propose that the be steeped twice within the time re-resolution should be rescinded, which proquired. Thus, indeed, the revenue might position he would submit without any debe completely defrauded. But, according bate. to the assertion of his right hon. friend, the Scotch maltsters were incapable of fraud-according to him, truly, they never had any such disposition-there were no frauds upon the revenue in Scotland, whatever might occur elsewhere. What, however, was the fact? why, that in the year 1809, which was the last to which he had referred, the convictions for fraud upon the excise amounted in England to but 1321, while in Scotland they exceeded 4500 (a general laugh.) Then as to 100 hours, applied for by the Scotch petitioners, he undertook to assert, that no barley in nature could require such a period, and that 65 hours, which the Bill proposed to grant, were amply sufficient for every purpose of saturation. If, however, the contrary should be the case, and a farther extension of time should be found necessary, the Bill was so modelled as to leave room for speedy amendment, which amendment he should be as ready to support as any man; being at all times The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that as the hon. member expressed his intention to propose the rescinding of the Resolution alluded to, without any debate, he should, without any debate, support it. But at the same time he was ready, upon any day that might be appointed, to enter fully into any discussion upon this Resolution, and to justify its terms and character. Mr. Whitbread declaring his desire to take the sense of the House upon this motion, The House accordingly divided: For the motion 26: Against it 63: Majority 37. List of the Minority. Abercromby, Hon. J. Gurney, Hudson Hamilton, Lord A. Horne, W. Huskisson, W. Lubbock, J. Mildmay, Sir H. were disposed of at a premium. Now, this depreciation took place in the interval between the passing of this act in 1811, and their renewal of it in the last session, when it was first extended to Ireland. And could any person attempt to maintain, that this depreciation, which existed before the law was made applicable to Ireland, did not equally exist afterwards? Certainly, the act could not produce such an effect. As a proof that the paper currency was not in that sound state which some gentlemen contended for, he instanced the circumstance of the treasury having last year sent out a quantity of Bank-notes to Canada, to pay the army and establishments in that country. His right hon. friend, he supposed, thought that these notes would be held in equal estimation with the public in Canada, as his Resolution set forth they possessed in Great Britain. Whether the wrappers in which they were enveloped, had this ce Mr. Huskisson stated, that as his opinions on the subject then before the House were generally known, he would not tire their patience by going at great length into the question, in reference to the law of the land, and the principles of justice. He was disposed to think, that, out of the walls of that House, notwithstanding the assertions of his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, they would not be able to find any one person who would agree in the Resolution which they had just affirmed, any more than they could, in the ordinary business of life, procure a guinea; all that description of coin having completely disap-lebrated Resolution engraved on them, he peared. If any person could doubt that there was a depreciation of the paper currency, he knew no better mode to convince him of the fact, than by drawing his attention to the Bill then on the table. His right hon. friend had argued, that the paper could not be depreciated, if three conditions were acceded to: first, that the coin of the realm should pass at a current rate, to be fixed by the sovereign authority of the state; second, that the paper currency should correspond with the denonomination of the coin. These two principles were acted upon in all states. The first constituted the essence of money; the second was its representative. But his right hon. friend found a third condition necessary to prevent the depreciation of this representative, and which they were then labouring to effect by this law. To render the current coin and Bank paper equally valuable, a penalty must be inflicted on those who disposed of the former for more than the price attached to it by the sovereign authority, or who disposed of the latter for less than its nominal value; and then they came to this conclusion, that if the paper money was so depreciated, as that 1,000l. of it would not purchase a quartern loaf; yet if, by a penal law, its denomination was secured, no depreciation whatever could be allowed to exist! He had, however, the admission of the right hon. gentleman himself, that in Ireland the paper currency was depreciated, because the guineas in that country could not ascertain; but, when they ar- |