tomed to the ordinary course of votes in that House, he should be astonished at the proceeding, which he had no doubt, would that night, be adopted. But not withstanding all they might vote, or all they might resolve, guineas would be clandestinely bought and sold, gold would find its level, and property its just estimation.

Mr. Herbert, of Kerry, declared he knew of no difference between the value of gold or Bank notes, and was always content to receive his rents in the latter.

Sir Edward May was of opinion that guineas were a very inadequate test of the wealth of a country, and that the present Bill ought to be supported.

Mr. W. Smith reprobated the principle upon which the Bill was originally introduced he said it was not alone inconsistent with that species of policy which the most celebrated writers had advanced as best calculated to uphold the interests of a state, but in direct opposition to the commercial interests of the country. As to the latter part of the Bill, he considered it a perfect fallacy; for, to his own certain knowledge, guineas were in the month of October last bought and sold without the slightest attempt at concealment, in the city of which he had the honour to be representative (Norwich.) Indeed, so little reserve was observed in the traffic, that it was universally believed that agents were employed by the government for the express purpose of buying guineas. The hon. gentleman concluded by declaring his intention of voting against the Bill.

Mr. Stephen rose to deliver, for the first time, an opinion on a subject which he confessed had not employed much of his attention. He would not assert that the Bill went to the complete abolition of two prices, but they certainly would not exist in the degree that they would do if a free competition were allowed between gold and Bank-notes.

Mr. Alderman Smith said a few words in support of the Bill.

sight. It was not, as had been asserted, the immense increase of the commerce of England that rendered it impossible to find gold and silver to count up its transactions by, but the enormous amount and portentous increase of the National Debt. The depreciation hinged on that debt; and every increase of debt would work additional depreciation our reckonings had passed what could be paid in gold, and every fresh loan, acting as a creation of imaginary property, representable by paper, and on which a paper interest must be paid, accompanied by no real increase of asset whatever, must of necessity spend itself upon the values of our currency.

The hon. gentleman said, he was perfectly aware, whilst things could be kept going in their present train, that the paper issues of England could not fall through, as had been the case with those of all other countries-the whole amount of Bank-paper issued being received by government at par for taxes three times in the course of the year-in loans and taxes five times. And from the experi ence of one district, he could confidently state, that the amount of the whole circulation, public and private, passed at par in direct payments from the subject to the government, much within the period of twelve months-he should think in eight or nine. But still, though this would preserve the system from falling to pieces amongst ourselves, yet our pound of account, being in daily process of meaning less and less-as, of every thing else, so assuredly of gold and silver. In measuring our standard against those of countries, who have no debt, and a fixed metallic currency-we should be found more and more wanting-more and more unable to circulate guineas at their old rates again.

other

Mr. Whitbread expressed his surprise that the right hon. gentleman should attempt to pass the Bill through the House with so much precipitancy. Saturday was a day on which it was usually understood that no public business would be done, and as many members might feel disposed to deliver their sentiments on the third reading of the Bill, he conceived it would be better to reserve that stage for some future day.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer did imagine that every member had had a fair opportunity of delivering his opinion upon the Bill, and this he was the more inclined to think, from the appearance of the House. If however further debate was thought necessary, and the hon. gentleman would say that he believed some of his friends were desirous of giving further opposition to the Bill, he would not press it forward, although it was a measure which, in his estimation, required dispatch.

Mr. Whitbread said, it was extremely unusual for the House to sit on Saturday at so early a period of the session. He would not pledge himself for the intention of any hon. member, but as there was no pressure, he could not help thinking it extremely indecorous to endeavour to hurry the Bill through the House upon a day when, it was almost universally understood, no business of importance would be transacted.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer repeated, that if the hon. gentleman would say that any of his friends had any thing to offer upon the subject, he would defer the third reading until Monday.

Mr. Whitbread would not enter into any pledge whatever, but demanded, as a matter of right, that the Bill should not be thus precipitated through the House; and in support of this right he begged to move, That the Bill be read a third time on Monday.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer would save the hon. gentleman the trouble of moving this amendment, by moving it himself.

The third reading of the Bill was then fixed for Monday.

Mr. Whitbread, in order to give the right hon. gentleman an opportunity of explaining what the urgent nature of the business was, which rendered it necessary for the House to sit on Saturday at so early a period of the session, moved, That the House, at its rising, do adjourn to Monday.

The Speaker observed, that much business had already been appointed for tomorrow.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it was very common for the House to sit on Saturdays, for the purpose of expediting business.

Mr. Whitbread. Not at this period of the session.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer. At all periods.

Mr. Smith was about to speak, when the Speaker interrupted him, by observing that there was no question before the House.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in order to give the hon. gentleman an opportunity of addressing the House, moved, That the other orders of the day be now read.

Mr. Smith apprehended the Chancellor of the Exchequer would find it difficult to adduce a precedent, in which the House had sat to do business, on a Saturday, at so early a period of the session.

The Speaker said, that, in point of fact, in all stages of the session, Bills for Supply, or for other urgent matters, were expedited on Saturdays.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Saturday, December 12.

AYRSHIRE ELECTION-PETItion of GeNERAL MONTGOMERIE.] A Petition of major-general James Montgomerie was delivered in and read; setting forth,

"That the petitioner and sir Hew Dalrymple Hamilton, bart. were candidates at the election of a knight of the shire to represent the county of Ayr in this present parliament, which took place on Friday, 23d of October last; and that, at the said election, persons were admitted to vote in the choice of preses and clerk who were incapable of voting; and persons were also allowed to give their votes for the said

part, instead of expecting any objection to the Bill now, he was surprised that such a measure had not hitherto been thought of. As to any abuse of this privilege by any public officer, he was not aware that such had existed; but if it did, and the hon. gentleman would point it out, a speedy check should be put to it.

POST OFFICE SECRETARY'S FRANKING BILL.] On the order of the day for the second reading of the Bill for authorizing the Assistant Secretary to the Post-mastergeneral to frank letters and packets,

Mr. Creevey objected to any extension of the privilege of franking by public officers, observing, that there was no one privilege more abused. It was only from the newspapers that he had been aware of the House meeting this day, a thing which he observed had been objected to, though unsuccessfully. The reason assigned, however, for this unusual meeting of the House on Saturday was the necessity of forwarding some Bills which required dispatch. He could not conceive the present to be a Bill of that description, and therefore he hoped it would not be pressed, that he might have an opportunity of demanding from the right hon. gentlemen on the other side, on some future day, some explanation as to the grounds on which the measure in question was proposed.

Mr. Wharton was convinced if the hon. member had attended to the statement made by him on the introduction of this measure; if he had reflected on the immense multiplicity of business in the Post Office, all falling to the share of one man, and the impossibility of conceiving that any one person, who had such important duties to perform, could be always on the spot, attending from day to day without intermission; if he had considered that without such a Bill as the present, the whole of the important duties of this office must be at a stand, during any occasional indisposition or necessary absence of the Secretary, he was satisfied the hon. gentleman must have been convinced, that the present Bill was not only not unreaonable, but necessary, For his own

Mr. Creevey alluded to the privilege enjoyed by a noble lord, one of the paymasters general of the forces, who never entered the door of the office; and to a similar privilege enjoyed by the three

certainly was less objectionable, and if on enquiry he found it was as the hon. gentleman had stated, the Bill should experience no farther objection from him.

The Bill was then read a second time.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, December 14.

CONTESTED ELECTIONS.] The Speaker announced, that if any gentlemen had petitions to present complaining of undue elections of members to serve in the present parliament, now was a proper time to give them in to the clerk. A considerable number were immediately presented, the names of which were severally written down on slips of paper and put into a balloting glass, from which they were drawn by the clerk, and the days for taking them into consideration fixed in the order of priority. They were as follows:

Pembroke county, against the return of sir John Owen; the committee to try the merits of which was appointed to be balloted for on the 2d March.-Carmarthen borough, against G. Campbell, esq.; committee March 4.-Cork city, against sir N. Colthurst; committee on 9th March.-Liverpool, against the right hon. George Canning and general Gascoyne; committee March 2: Hythe against sir John Perring; committee on 9th March.-Grampound borough, against the hon. A. C. Johnstone, &c.; committee 11th March.-Denbigh borough, against lord Kirkwall; committee 11th March. Cardigan borough, against the hon. col. Vaughan; committee 16th March.-Pembroke borough, against sir John Owen; committee on 2nd March. Youghall borough; committee 16th March. Helston borough, against H. Hammersley, &c.; committee on March 18.-A Petition against the return for Tregony borough, and a Petition against the return

on

GOLD COIN BILL.] On the order of the day for the third reading of the Gold Coin Bill,

rates at which paper and coin shall pass current, must, in proportion to its success, interfere with the just and legal execution of all contracts already existing, without the possibility of affecting the terms upon which contracts shall be made in time to come.

1. "That, by the law and constitution of these realms it is the undoubted right of every man to sell or otherwise dispose of his property for whatever he deems to be its value, or whatever consideration he chuses to accept, and that every man possessed of a Bank-note, or other security for the payment of money, has an undoubted right to give it away for nothing, or in exchange for whatever sum of money he pleases, or, if he cannot obtain what he demands, to retain possession of it.

2. "That any statute having for its object to restrain this right would be contrary to the principles of the British constitution, and a flagrant violation of the most sacred rights of property, and the ancient and unalienable liberties of the people.

3. That any statute having for its object to prevent the Bank or other paper currency of the country from being exchanged against the lawful money of the realm, below a certain rate, would, if it could be carried into effect, cause the lawful money of the realm wholly to disappear, and would, in proportion to its efficacy, preclude the application of the most appropriate remedies for the present derangement in the circulation of the

country.

4. "That the free exchange of the lawful money of the realm with the paper currency, on such terms as the holders of each may think proper to settle among themselves, is not only the undoubted right of the subject, but affords the best means of restoring the circulation of the country to its sound and natural state, by establishing two prices for all commodities whensoever the one currency is from any cause depreciated below the other.

5. That no law whatsoever can alter the real value of the paper currency in relation to the lawful money of the realm, nor alter the real value of either kind of currency in relation to all other commodities; and that any attempt to fix the

discountenance and resist a scheme which has for its immediate objects the establishment of a maximum in the money trade of the realm, and the dissolution of the obligations already contracted by numerous classes of the community, but which has for its ground work principles leading to an universal law of maximum, and the infraction of every existing contract for the payment of money, and that the said Bill has the said objects, and proceeds upon the said principles."

The Resolutions being put were all negatived. Upon the third Resolution, the House divided, when the numbers were, For the Resolution 29. For the previous Question 73. Majority against the Resolution 44.

The motion was then put for the third reading of the Bill.

Mr. Abercromby observed, that the amount of currency was now entirely under the regulation of a body, who had declared, that they governed their issues by no other rule than the supposed solidity of those upon the security of whose bills they made their advances. Provided the Bill was considered the representation of a real commercial transaction, and payable at a short date, it was admitted that no further test was deemed necessary of the propriety of any issue. How the di

rectors always ascertained this point he did not know, but he believed there were cases in which they had been mistaken. The practical consequences of such a system was, that enterprising speculators were tempted by these new facilities into undertakings, many of which, in the course of time, naturally failed, and caused very extensive distress. Another effect equally important was, that the main ground on which the system was originally supported had been entirely taken away, and that instead of being enabled through its operation to prosecute the war in the peninsula, it now was the great obstacle to its progress.

Mr. Rose repeated several statements, which he had a few days since laid before the House, in order to show that the foreign exchanges were entirely independent of the domestic currency. He endeavoured, likewise, to shew that the whole amount of our present circulation fell short of what it was when gold formed the larger part of the currency. He was aware that the issues of the country banks were considerable; but in many parts, and particularly in Lancashire, no country paper whatever was in circulation.

Mr. J. P. Grant, in a maiden speech, began by remarking, that to his understanding, it appeared quite clear, that the depreciation of any currency could arise only from one of two causes-either from a want of confidence in those by whom it was issued, or from an excess in the amount of their issues. This proposition was so indisputable, that upon this part of the subject, he should make but few observations. In speaking of the value of gold, or of any other circulating medium, he thought it would not be to require too much, if gentlemen were to state in what commodity it was they estimated that value. The price of any article could only be ascertained by a comparison with the value of some other. In the year 1718, when the nominal value of the guinea was considerably raised, the immediate effect was, to render gold exclusively the currency of the country. It was stated, he believed, in lord Liverpool's Letter to the King, that during a period of some extent, the value of gold remained stationary, whilst that of silver had undergone several variations. The rate of exchange to which the right hon. gentleman, who preceded him, had referred, could serve to throw no light whatever on the question to which it was applied.

No alteration in the balance of exchanges between countries not possessing mines of their own could affect the system of their internal circulation. It was utterly impossible, that in a general interchange of commodities, the demand for the precious metals should ever be excessive. These principles were so incontrovertible and so well established, that he was at a loss to attribute the diversity of opinion which prevailed respecting them to any other cause, than a disagreement in the meaning of the term employed, by which, what was obvious to one understanding was rendered unintelligible to another. If this were not the case, he must be led to conclude, that different understandings were differently constructed. But with respect to the Bill immediately before the House he rose on this occasion to enter his humble protest against it. Bad as the system was to which it belonged, he regarded it as its worst part, because it cut off the last hope that remained of revising it. With regard to what had been said about a pound note and a shilling being equivalent to a guinea, he thought that it proved that the parliamentary meaning of the word equivalent was very different from the common acceptation of it; and that thus the word equivalent, like permanent' (as a noble lord had stated a few evenings ago) had two different meanings. Unless this were the case, it was certainly impossible to prove that a pound note and a shilling were equal to a guinea. remedy proposed by this Bill appeared to embrace, as a principal object, the prevention of two prices. Now, with respect to two prices, properly speaking there was an inaccuracy in the language; two prices in fact could never exist. It was not possible to maintain the existence of two contemporary currencies of unequal values. In the reign of William 3, as every body knew, one part of the currency became degraded below its nominal value, and the consequence was, that it banished from circulation that part which was justly estimated. The hardship complained of by the public creditor was not that the currency was merely depreciated, but that he was obliged to receive it at one value, and pay it away at another. It might be a harsh name to call this Bill, if it passed, an act for the promotion of fraud; but it certainly was not a law for the distribution of justice. Persons constantly engaged in the purchase and sale of stock were not exposed to the loss in

The