The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Stevenson, you follow the transcript as the recording is played. You can verify at the conclusion of it whether it is accurate. That is, whether the transcription is accurate. All right, proceed with the record. (At this point, a tape recording was played.) The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Stevenson, do you recognize this transcription as the transcription of the recording you had with Mr. Rogers? Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. It may be printed in the record at this point. (The document referred to follows:) MAN'S VOICE. This is Mr. Rogers with the International Labor Record, the American Federation of Labor. How are you. Mr. STEVENSON. Fine. And you? Mr. ROGERS. I called to thank you very much for the help you have been giving us in the A. F. of L. Can I do something for you? Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I don't believe so. Mr. ROGERS. Well, I don't mind telling you the records show that you been a pretty good friend of ours. Mr. STEVENSON. Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. I have been through your neighborhood here about 2 weeks ago and I talked to some of the boys out there and they hand me a report that you are regarded as a good friend of organized labor. Did you know that? Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I did not. Mr. ROGERS. Not that's its going to make any money for you but (inaudible). Mr. STEVENSON. Well, thank you. Mr. ROGERS. May I-may I kind of tell you this, Mr. Stevenson, that if there isn't anything that I can do for you today, would you please just accept the invitation that any day, week, month that there's anything you ever need or want, would you just ask for it? Mr. STEVENSON. All right, sir. Will do. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Stevenson, I don't know whether you happened to see this in the papers, but this happened just the other day. We passed a resolution down at headquarters that we will not permit any more strikes throughout the United States of America. What do you think about that? Mr. STEVENSON. Aw-that would be interesting to see. Westinghouse has got a nice one here in town right now. Mr. ROGERS. What's that? Mr. STEVENSON. Westinghouse has a nice one here in town right now. Mr. ROGERS. Oh, yes. Now that's what brought it about. We're having too many strikes and down at the meeting just-this happened just the other day. It was decided that we discontinue strikes throughout the United States. The policy now will be: We're going to make an appeal to the workers that they give you fellows an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, and we're going to ask you people, the bosses, to respect the rights of the workers. That's only fair. Mr. STEVENSON. Umbuh. Mr. ROGERS. And in the event of a disagreement we're going to adopt a policy of arbitration, mediation and conciliation. No more walking off the job. Mr. STEVENSON. I see. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Stevenson, we're spending $22 million to put this thing over. We don't mind spending the 21⁄2 because we'll get it back Mr. STEVENSON. Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. And before we get it back you people have got to make it first. Mr. STEVENSONS Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. But I assure you, Mr. Stevenson, that I'm going to quote now from one of your top men in America, Mr. Bernard Baruch, who claims that due to our program the next 5 years will bring more prosperity than we've ever seen before in the history of the country. Mr. STEVENSON. Humm. Mr. ROGERS. And I'm proud to say that I'm part of the movement. Mr. STEVENSON. Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Stevenson, there isn't any question in our mind that if we can get the men to work, let's say diligently, keep production going smoothly, the time will come when we can begin to lower the cost of production, and you people want that just as much as we do. Mr. Stevenson, in order to do the job we're contacting both organizations, A. F. of L.-CIO, and we're going to take the International Labor Record. The paper will contain the editorials, the copy which will explain to the workers what they must do in order to get rid of strikes in America. Mr. STEVENSON. Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. In this paper, Bill, we've prepared a piece of copy for you. Underneath the copy we do not show your name. Can you hear me? Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir. Mr. ROGERS. Which means that you're not going to make a red cent out of this, Bill, but we ask you to do it for two reasons: No. 1, do it because you're a good friend of ours; No. 2, you fellows don't want strikes, do you? Mr. STEVENSON. Nope. Mr. ROGERS. Because I-I assure you, Bill, that if our program is successful by 85 percent, I'm almost positive that you and I can retire within a period of 5 years from today. Mr. STEVENSON. That sounds good. Mr. ROGERS. Let me ask you this, Bill. us for any favors? How come that you never called Mr. STEVENSON. I haven't felt it was necessary. Mr. ROGERS. Well, I'm glad to hear that. May you never call me, Mr. Steven son Mr. STEVENSON. Umhuh. Mr. ROGERS. But may I tell you this: that if the time comes and you have an occasion to call me, if I do only half as well for you as I've done for my friends throughout the United States, when the Christmas holidays come around don't forget I smoke good cigars. Mr. STEVENSON. (Laughter) All right. Mr. ROGERS. Let me ask you this, Bill, how many people now do you employ? Mr. STEVENSON. Ah-I don't know. This is our peak period Mr. ROGERS. Oh. Mr. STEVENSON. And I'm not sure what that is right now. Mr. ROGERS. Just about roughly. I just want to see whether it coincides with my figures. Mr. STEVENSON. Ah, around a hundred. Mr. ROGERS. Well, the boys gave me a hundred and forty. Where did they get that from? Mr. STEVENSON. Well, that's-that might be, counting everybody else. Mr. ROGERS. But one thing I am happy to tell you, Bill, that the boys out there gave me a report saying that Mr. William A. Stevenson is a recognized friend of organized labor. Keep it that way for 5 more years, Mr. Stevenson. Mr. STEVENSON. Well, now, wait a minute. You got the wrong Stevenson. Mr. ROGERS. Why? Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. W. A. Stevenson died a year ago last April. Mr. ROGERS. Yeah. This is Bill, isn't it? Mr. STEVENSON. No. Bill died a year ago in April, and a Mr. ROGERS. This is Mr. Stevenson? Mr. STEVENSON. My name is Stevenson also. Mr. ROGERS. Listen, Mr. Stevenson, let me give you the prices on this. Do the best you can, will you please? Mr. STEVENSON. Well the-we've got a-the board of directors here has issued a policy that all advertising that we do has to be cleared by them. Mr. ROGERS. By whom? Mr. STEVENSON. Our board of directors. So if you want to send in a request, a written request outlining everything, I'm sure we can take it up with them and see what they say. Mr. ROGERS. Let me ask you this, Mr. Stevenson. Mr. STEVENSON. Yes. Mr. ROGER. Can you do anything by yourself? Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir. Mr. ROGERS. You can't. Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir. Mr. ROGERS. Who is the man that knows the Courier, because I do happen to know that-that you fellows placed an ad with the Trade Union Courier. Mr. STEVENSON. Ah-Mr. Williams. Mr. ROGERS. Oh, this is Mr. Williams. Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. Williams or Mr. Wycliff. Mr. STEVENSON. No, he is not. Monday. Is Mr. Williams there now? They are both out; they will both be back in Mr. ROGERS. That's Mr. Williams and who? Mr. STEVENSON. Wycliff. Mr. ROGERS. Thanks very much, Mr. Stevenson. Mr. STEVENSON. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Koota, did you recognize his voice? Mr. KOOTA. I can definitely say it is not mine, because I never use terms of that kind. The CHAIRMAN. It wasn't alleged to be yours. Mr. KOOTA. I beg your pardon? The CHAIRMAN. It is not alleged to be your voice. Mr. KOOTA. I really would not know. The CHAIRMAN. You didn't go under the name of Rogers? Mr. Koora. I did for a short period of time. The CHAIRMAN. You did? Mr. KOOTA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Well, at this particular time, were you going under the name of Rogers? Mr. KOOTA. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you recognize your brother's voice in that much conversation? Mr. KOOTA. It could sound possible. From this telephone recording here The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean it could sound possible? Mr. KOOTA. It sounds familiar. That is about all. But I could not say definitely. The CHAIRMAN. As whose voice? Mr. KOOTA. It might be my brother's voice and it might not. I can't be too sure. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I will not press you any further. Proceed. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I might say that Mr. Dunne can offer some enlightenment on the question of whose voice this is. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT DUNNE-Resumed Mr. DUNNE. We obtained information from District Attorney Hogan's office in New York County. They were conducting an investigation of the International Labor Record in New York City, and they informed me that Mr. Rogers operating out of that office was Dick Koota. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. KENNEDY. That is all of Mr. Stevenson. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Stevenson. TESTIMONY OF DAVID KOOTA-Resumed Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Koota, did you know when you contacted Mr. Stevenson that his employees were not even members of a labor organization? Mr. KOOTA. I would not remember that. Mr. KENNEDY. You never checked out those things at all? Mr. KENNEDY. Did you tell these firms when you called them that you understood that they were good friends of the A. F. of L.-CIO? Mr. KOOTA. I might have. I don't remember whether I did or not. Mr. KENNEDY. What information would you have for making such a statement? Mr. KOOTA. I don't quite follow you on that. Mr. KENNEDY. What information would you have when you told these individuals or these officers in these firms that you understood that they were good friends of labor unions? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. KENNEDY. I think he knows that, counsel. Mr. LEWIS. Except that you are misquoting what he said. He said he doesn't remember making the statement. Mr. KENNEDY. I am just asking a question. Mr. LEWIS. He said a moment ago he doesn't remember making the statement, and now you have turned around and asked on what basis he made that statement. Mr. KENNEDY. Could I have the answer read? (The pending answer was read by the reporter, as requested.) The CHAIRMAN. What is the question? Mr. KENNEDY. Did you in fact tell them that you understood they were good friends of the AFL-CIO? Mr. KOOTA. I don't remember saying it. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you deny that you said it? Mr. KOOTA. I wouldn't deny that I said it. I just don't think- Mr. KOOTA. It might be possible. I don't know. Mr. KENNEDY. How would it be possible for you to say it if you didn't even check to find out if their employees were members of labor organizations? Mr. KOOTA. A lot of people that I called were people that I have gotten from other labor papers. In other words, I at one time got hold of a paper from Columbus, Ohio, a labor paper there, and I might have called the people from that labor paper. They took an ad in the local labor paper there, so I assumed that they were friendly toward labor. That is all. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you tell people that you had friends in the right places? Did you tell people things like that? Mr. KOOTA. I don't ever remember saying that. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you deny that you have said that? Mr. KOOTA. I wouldn't deny it. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, we have another recording here which Mr. Dunne will introduce, based on an affidavit. Again, these are recordings taken by the recipient of the telephone calls. Here is an affidavit from the individual who got the call, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. This affidavit is from Mr. Youngblood. Mr. KENNEDY. He is with the Southern Steam Co., and he makes jail and prison equipment. The CHAIRMAN. In San Antonio, Tex. (The This affidavit may be made exhibit No. 12, for reference. document referred to was made exhibit No. 12 for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) The pertinent parts are: I am president of the Southern Steel Co., which company constructs jails, prisons, and prison equipment. As we have many conversations with our salesmen, contractors, architects, engineers, and others, which conversations are material to the transaction of our business, it being important that we have an accurate record of such conversations, I have procured a dictaphone which is attached to the telephone for recording these business conversations. The conversation with a man who called himself Dave Koota was recorded by this process. I had never heard of Mr. Koota, and I had no idea whatsoever as to what would be the substance of his conversation. In this affidavit he states that he has turned over that recording to the committee. That will identify the recording, the affidavit will. You may proceed to play the recording. (At this point, a tape recording was played.) The CHAIRMAN. I followed this transcript with the record. The Chair states that it is accurate. In view of the affidavit of the man who participated in the conversation and recorded it, it may be printed in the record at this point. (The document referred to follows:) CONVERSATION BETWEEN HULL YOUNGBLOOD, SR., AND DAVE KOOTA, WHO Mr. KOOTA. Youngblood, this is Dave Koota, with the Courier, the American Federation of Labor unions. Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Uhuh. Mr. KOOTA. How are you, Mr. Youngblood? Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. All right. Mr. KOOTA. Fine. Anything I can do for you? Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I don't think so; not that I know of. Mr. KOOTA. Well, I say it for one reason, Mr. Youngblood, because we've always regarded you a friend. Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, I think we are. Mr. KOOTA. Youngblood, you know we've had our big convention. At the convention there was one very important thing came up that we are going to work on, and that is to get Communists out of organized labor. Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Huh, Hmmmmm. Mr. KOOTA. What do you think of it? Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, I think-ah-I think they-they-I think that's the element that has given you the trouble. Mr. KOOTA. Definitely. I'll tell you this, Youngblood. It's gotten to a point now where not only did those Communists get into labor, they've gotten into our schools, our churches, and even into our State Department. Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Uhuh. Mr. KOOTA. And unless we do something, Youngblood, it's going to affect us all in a big way. Now, Youngblood, you've always rated a friend, and if there's anything at all that I could ever do for you, I'll always work with you 100 percent. Now, Hull, all of our good friends in management, those we have always respected, are working along with us. They're taking a space in our big convention paper to help us out with the expense, but I want you to know this, Hull, that if I ask you to take a little money out of your pocket to help me, the time will come when I'll prove to you, Hull, that we've got darn big pockets ourselves. |