the best will of Ireland would be given | land before they were committed to a with a protest against a public wrong, and to defend those who could not speak for themselves. war. He was sorry there was not a large number of Irish Members present; but he thought that the expression of the regret of the Members who were there would, perhaps, be the means of bringing over a good many more, so that if no satisfactory statement was forthcoming from the Government they might try their strength. SIR JOHN LUBBOCK thought the hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. O'Connor Power) very inconsistent, for while condemning the course of Her Majesty's Government, he announced his intention of not voting against them. This was not a matter simply between Her Ma MAJOR NOLAN said, he regretted that no answer had been given by the Government to the remarks which had been made as to the omission of any reference to Ireland. He regretted that there were not more Irish Members present; but he hoped that they would be there before the end of the Session to protest against the total omission of Irish affairs from the Queen's Speech. It might be said that England and Scotland were also omitted; but he objected to the total omission of home affairs. He might be told that the whole in-jesty's Government and the Opposition. terests of the country were entirely with These were questions in which they the war; but he thought there were were all deeply interested; and he could many grievances in Ireland-the Land not understand how hon. Members could Question, for instance-which most of use expressions which touched the very them would say ought to be settled verge of the usage of Parliament, and before any foreign war was considered. then declare that they were not going to When they saw the tremendous slap in vote. He had also referred to South the face the Ministry were giving Africa; but the fact was that this country Russia by that war, they could not say had spent its money and its blood there, in what they were involved for, or that because it honestly believed it was nethe war in Afghanistan would not be cessary to protect the lives and property followed by war with Russia. Then, of Englishmen. It might be an error of again, there was not a word in the judgment; but he thoroughly believed Queen's Speech about the Irish Univer- that there was nothing to be ashamed sity, and he was afraid the Government of in our conduct there. We were, in would not do anything on the Land fact, making heavy sacrifices, believing Question. If the Ministry would give that we were doing our duty. The hon. something moderate in that direction, and learned Member for Louth (Mr. they would be satisfied. He would Sullivan) had condemned our previous allow that the Government had done dealings with the Ameer, and he (Sir some good last year; if they would give John Lubbock) was previously of somethem the University, it would be some- what the same opinion himself; but he thing more. The absence of any refer- was bound to say that upon reading the ence to Irish affairs left the Members in Papers he had altered his views. In a most painful position in facing their 1855 the Ameer made a stringent Treaty constituents. In face of a war, he con- with us, and yet after receiving a friendly sidered that a country which elected Mission from Russia, when we wished to its Members freely had a very great send one, he refused to accept it; and superiority over the country which could again, after he had had ample time to not elect its Members freely. There consider the matter he treated all comwas a vast number of persons in Eng- munications with contempt. In this and land who were not represented; but, as other matters it seemed to him that we a matter of fact, England could elect its had just cause of complaint, and he (Sir Members more freely than Ireland. At John Lubbock) thought that the Ameer present the householders in Ireland were brought this war upon himself. Whether not represented in that House; and he the war was politic was quite another did think it most unfair that they should question, upon which he should probe pledged to a war, and plunged into it bably quite agree with the hon. Memwithout having some vote in the matter. ber. He could not keep from expressing He thought that they ought to have his astonishment when last Session Her some declaration by the Government to Majesty's Government came down with a franchise equal in Ireland as in Eng-large Supplementary Estimates and pro posed, not to meet them manfully by extra taxation at the moment, but to distribute the payment over a period of years. But at that very moment they knew that this Afghan War was looming in the immediate future. ["No, no!"] Hon. Members said "No;" but he did not think that anybody could read those Papers without coming to the conclusion that Her Majesty's Government had determined at the time that the Ameer should receive an Envoy, and that the Ameer had also made up his mind that he would not do so. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought in a Bill to establish a new Sinking Fund; but he did not act up to his own principles, and borrowed money with one hand while he was repaying it with the other. After making every allowance, he thought this state of affairs most unsatisfactory; and he could not help feeling that it was much to be regretted that Her Majesty's Government should have rushed into this war, and that they should have departed from the old policy of the Indian Government. MR. O'CLERY said, he also had to complain of there being no reference to Ireland in the Speech, and considered Imperial England held towards Ireland a somewhat similar position to that held by Imperial Rome towards the subject-provinces in the old days. He must say, however, that there had been times when England did not treat her in that way, and those were periods when England was entering into a great war, and when English resources were strained to the uttermost to maintain her position. At that time Ireland was loyal to the core, and gave 100,000 volunteers. The result was that when the war was at an end they had a great English Minister-Pittdeliberately striking them down. While the blood of Ireland was shed on every field to maintain English splendour, how did they find Ireland treated during the famine? With supreme indifference. There was a time in the Crimean War in which the English Government were obliged to consider Ireland; and in regard to that war there was no higher praise given by English officers to anyone than that they gave to the Irish soldiers. They had always been told during a war that it was not the time to make applications; but he would be false to his own position if he said that the Irish people felt any interest in the struggle now being entered upon. The English enjoyed the blessings of a free Government, and there was not an Englishman who did not feel that he was defended by the Government; but an Irishman had not the same feelings. Irish people might regret the loss of life, and the Irish were compelled by the force of English laws to take part in what was undoubtedly an unjust war; but, beyond that, they could not take any further interest in this struggle. This Session, which had been called to discuss the fate of Afghanistan, would be better used for discussing the questions relating to Ireland. They thought they were entering upon a very little war; but they could not disguise from themselves that it might turn into a very large one. They thought they were only waging war with Afghanistan; but it might be possible that our real enemy-Russia-would not act towards Afghanistan the same part that England acted towards Turkey. Therefore, it was the first duty of every English patriot to see that the claims put forward by Irish Representatives should receive the measure of respect to which they were entitled, and by so doing Englishmen would be doing a higher duty than by providing for war with Afghanistan. MR. ASSHETON CROSS said, the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down (Mr. O'Clery) had used, perhaps inadvertently, an expression which he thought ought not to go uncorrected. The hon. Gentleman had spoken of Russia as an enemy of this country. He must point out that the Queen's Speech assured them that Her Majesty was now in friendly relations with all the great Powers of Europe-Russia included, of course. He had heard other expressions from hon. Members on that side of the House as to the injustice, and almost the cruelty, of this war, which unfortunately existed in Afghanistan; but as it had been generally understood that the debate on the justice or injustice of the war was to take place, not on that night, but on an early opportunity, he hoped hon. Gentlemen would withhold those strong epithets until the question had been fully debated. The hon. Member for Cork (Mr. M'Carthy Downing) had complained that there was no reference to Ireland in the Queen's Speech. 173 Africa-Cape Frontier HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, 6th December, 1878. LORD CHANCELLOR The Lord Pre {DECEMBER 6, 1878} If legislation for England or Scotland had been mentioned in the Speech, while no notice was given to Ireland, then the latter country might have thought itself neglected. But at the beginning of an Autumn Session, called for a specific purpose, he thought it sufficient in the Queen's Speech only to state generally that measures would be laid before Par-sident acquainted the House that Her liament in the ensuing Session. There Majesty had been pleased to create Hugh MacCalmont Lord Cairns, Lord was the precedent of 1854, in the case of the Crimean War, for the course Chancellor of Great Britain, a Viscount which had been followed in the present and Earl of the United Kingdom, by instance, and he thought in the matter the style and title of Viscount Garmoyle of precedents they were pretty evenly in the County of Antrim, and Earl balanced. When Irish Members spoke Cairns; and his Lordship, having reof that as a grievance, he hoped they tired to robe, was introduced in the usual manner. would remember that the last measure which the Government had passed for Ireland was one of peace, goodwill, and, he believed, of justice. That being the last message of the Government to Ireland, he hoped that they would acknowledge, and do the Government the justice of believing, that they might have other measures to introduce for that country equally beneficial. A general statement would be made to Parliament, immediately after it re-assembled, of the measures which the Government in-tary of State for India :tended to bring forward; and when their list of measures was produced the Irish Members might rely upon it that their country would not be overlooked. MR. O'CLERY explained that his use of the expression had been misunderstood. What he meant to infer was that it was against Russia that they had to defend themselves in the East, rather than Afghanistan. Main Question put, and agreed to. Committee appointed, "to draw up an Ad- House adjourned at half after AFGHANISTAN-THE WAR. NOTICE OF AMENDMENT. THE EARL OF CORK: My Lords, I beg to give Notice, on behalf of my noble Friend (Viscount Halifax), that on Monday next he will move the following Amendment to the Motion to be proposed by the noble Viscount the Secre : "That, while this House whilst ready to consent to providing the means necessary for bringing the war in which we are unhappily engaged to a safe and honourable conclusion, regrets the conduct pursued by the Government which has unnecessarily engaged this country in the contest." THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDON: May I ask my noble Friend whether the words he has just read are intended as an addition to, or a substitution of, the Motion of my noble Friend the Secretary of State? THE EARL OF CORK: A substitution. POLICE. MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS. LORD HOUGHTON said, that complaints had reached this country from some young men of good family who, thinking that they were about to join a body of a civilian character, had enlisted in the Cape Frontier Mounted Police, but subsequently found that they were transferred to a military corps. He would therefore move for any Correspondence between the Government and the civil or military Authorities at the Cape of Good Hope respecting the change of the body of Cape Frontier Mounted Police into Cape Mounted Rifles. Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for any correspondence between the Government and the civil or military Authorities at the Cape of Good Hope respecting the change of the body of Cape Frontier Mounted Police into Cape Mounted Rifles.— (The Lord Houghton.) EARL CADOGAN said, that complaints of a similar nature to those stated by the noble Lord had reached the Colonial Office. The first of those complaints reached them on the 6th of November, and was followed by others. On the 14th, and again on the 21st of that month, despatches were addressed to Sir Bartle Frere requesting explanation of the matter. It was impossible for the Government to receive an answer before the middle or end of January, and therefore he hoped the noble Lord would not press his Motion for Papers on the present occasion, and he should be ready to give him an undertaking that as soon as the required answer and explanation had been received the Papers should be produced. Motion (by Leave of the House) withdrawn. House adjourned at a quarter past HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, 6th December, 1878. MINUTES.]— PUBLIC BILLS-Resolutions in * peal [4]; Volunteer Corps (Ireland) [5]; NOTICES OF MOTION. AFGHANISTAN - AMENDMENTS ON MR. WHITBREAD: I beg to give Notice that it is my intention to call attention to the Papers on Afghanistan, and to move "That this House disapproves the conduct of Her Majesty's Government which has resulted in the War with Afghanistan." With regard to the day on which I can bring that forward, I am, of course, very much in the hands of the Government. Having given Notice of a Motion which directly challenges the conduct of Her Majesty's Government, I am, of course, anxious to bring it forward at the earliest opportunity; and I presume that Her Majesty's Government- and, indeed, both sides of the House-would desire, as is usual, that not a day should be lost in bringing it forward. I therefore ask the right hon. Gentleman what day he will give me for the Motion? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Undoubtedly, Sir, under ordinary circumstances it would be the desire earliest day for a Motion that is in the of the Government to give the very nature of a Vote of Censure upon the Government, a Motion brought forward would possibly be more in Order if I were to postpone any appeal I have to make until after the Notices of Motions and Questions have been put. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: We shall have to move that the House, at its rising, do adjourn till Monday. SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON: It becomes my duty now to move that the House, at its rising, do adjourn till Monday. by an hon. Member of the standing of the hon. Member for Bedford, and with, as I have some reason to suppose, the general approval of the leading Members of the Party sitting opposite to me; but I would remind the House and the hon. Gentleman that on this occasion Parliament has been called together for the special purpose of discharging a Constitutional and statutory obligation entered into by the Government; and that in order to fulfil that obligation it will be necessary for us immediately to submit to Parliament a Vote giving That the House, at its rising, do adMotion made, and Question proposed, the required consent of both Houses of journ till Monday next."-(Sir Henry Parliament to the course which is proposed to be taken. That being so, Selwin-Ibbetson.) it would be impossible for us to set aside proceeding with the Motion of which Notice has been given by my hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State for India. It was, of course, open to the hon. Member for Bedford or for his Friends to have brought forward a Motion such as that of which he has now given Notice yesterday upon the Address; or it would be open for him to bring forward his Motion as an Amendment to the proposal of my hon. Friend to which I have just referred. It is not for me, of course, to say what would be the most convenient or proper course for the hon. Member to take; but all I can say is, that if the question of the hon. Gentleman points to our giving up Monday and putting off the Resolution which we have already given Notice of, in order to enable his Resolution to be brought forward, I think it would be impossible for us to comply. MR. CHAMBERLAIN: I beg to give Notice that on the Resolution of the hon. Member for Bedford I will move the following addition : "And this House regrets that, in the present instance, the consent of the Nation, through its representatives, was not obtained before War was declared; and that the Government withheld from publication, until after the Declaration of War, the Papers which would have enabled a correct opinion to be formed as to its justice and necessity." THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON: I desire to make an appeal to the Government to re-consider the decision which has just been announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer; but I am under the impression that it would be irregular for any discussion to take place at this stage of the proceedings. It THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON: I intended, if I had been enabled, to have made an appeal to the Government, before the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the determination of the Government, to take into consideration the request made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford. My hon. Friend has given Notice of a Resolution which is undoubtedly a Resolution of Censureor, at all events, of Want of Confidence in the Government. From the observations that I made yesterday I think it will be easily understood that I and those who act with me are prepared to support that Motion. Well, Sir, under these circumstances, I wish, as I have said, to appeal to the Government to re-consider their intention of moving on Monday the Resolution of which they have given Notice, and to give precedence to that of my hon. Friend. It occurs to me that that would be the most convenient course for two reasons. In the first place, as, I think, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has admitted, the Government would, under ordinary circumstances, be anxious to give the earliest possible opportunity for a vote involving the question of the confidence of the House in the Government. But, in the next place, there are peculiar circumstances which seem to me to render this course even more desirable. What will take place on Monday? On Monday the Under Secretary of State for India will make a statement which will not be confined to the financial question, but will open the whole case of the Government in reference to the proceedings in Afghanistan. The hon. Member will be followed by my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney (Mr. Fawcett), who has |