VISCOUNT CRANBROOK: I must structions from the Home Government, deny having expressed the sentiment and the terms which were proposed in which the noble Earl imputes to me. 1873, the terms proposed by Her THE EARL OF NORTHBROOK: Then, Majesty's present Government were I wish the noble Viscount would not use more strict than those offered in language which is liable to misconstruc- 1873. I have thought it right to tion. His words about " vague assur-mention this, because there is great ances certainly seemed to imply that misapprehension on the subject. It has those assurances were not of a kind been said in several of the newspapers, which ought to have been given at the and notably by The Pall Mall Gazette, that time. Now, I wish to point out to your the conduct of the late Government Lordships that the offers made to the towards Shere Ali was the whole cause Ameer by Her Majesty's present Govern- of the present war. Shere Ali, said The ment were guarded far more strictly than Pall Mall Gazette, wanted to throw hiuthose of the Government of 1873. These self into the arms of England, and made Papers contain the draft Treaty which a proposal which Lord Northbrook was Sir Lewis Pelly was authorised to con- willing to accept, but which Mr. Gladclude with the Ameer. My assurances stone's Government declined; and out to the Ameer in 1873 were that the of that proposal has grown the Afghan British Government, under certain cir- War. Knowing the truth of this matter, cumstances, would afford him assistance as I do, I cannot, in common fairness in the shape of arms and money and and justice to the Government under also, in case of necessity, assist him with which I was then serving, refrain fron troops. The safeguards were these-that explaining what the real facts of the he should abstain from aggression and case are; and I venture to say I should should unreservedly accept the advice of have taken the same course if these cirthe British Government in regard to his cumstances had occurred when the Party external relations. Now, turning to the opposite was in Office, and while I was draft Treaty which Sir Lewis Pelly was serving under the Earl of Eeaconsfield. authorized to conclude with the Ameer, I think the noble Marquess (the Marwhich is given at page 190 of the Papers, quess of Salisbury) has very much unwhat do I find? There is an assurance derrated the importance of the observaof protection, no doubt, in the second tions of the noble Earl beside me (Earl Article; but it is qualified in the third Granville) upon the debate which ocand fourth Articles in precisely the same curred in this House on the 15th of way as the assurance of protection June last year. I do not think anything offered to the Ameer by the Government which amounts to concealing from your of 1873. The qualification is that His Lordships facts which are known by Highness should" refrain from all pro- Ministers can be considered to be a "small vocation of aggression on or interfer- personal question unworthy of discusence with the States and territories sion." It so happened that I took very beyond his present Frontier," and that great interest in the debate in question, "he should conduct his relatious with and the account which the noble MarForeign States in harmony with the quess has given of it is not one which I policy of the British Government." It feel disposed to accept. My noble appears that the Viceroy was not quite Friend (the Duke of Argyll) certainly did satisfied with these conditions; and on put some Questions on particular points looking to the aide mémoire "for sub- to the noble Marquess; but he did not sidiary secret and explanatory agree- confine his speech to that. If he had ment," at page 191, you will find that done so, I might have accepted the exit was understood, in regard to Article 2, planation now given by the noble Marthat the Ameer should bind himself quess. My noble Friend discussed the to abstain from discussion of political, policy pursued by successive Viceroys tointernational, or State matters with any wards Afghanistan, remarking that the Foreign Government,"communicating un- views of the last three Viceroys were that reservedly to the British Government all we should maintain an amicable aud communications on such subjects received watchful attitude towards the Ameer, by him. I wish to show that if there is without entangling ourselves in permaany distinction between the terms offered nent engagements. There can be only one to the Ameer by the Viceroy under in- interpretation of what occurred. The

Duke of Argyll wished to receive, not | doubtedly I should have brought the only an answer to a particular Question, question before your Lordships. I will but a general assurance from the noble not say what the effect of the debate Marquess that he had not departed from might have been; but, at any rate, bethe line of policy indicated. I remem- fore the war had been entered into, this ber hearing the noble Marquess state House and the country would have that affairs maintained a peaceful as-known what the policy of the Governpect, and that there was "no reason for any apprehension of any change of policy or disturbance in our Indian Empire." But the noble Marquess, in now quoting that passage, omitted to quote the words "in our Indian Empire.' I assert on my own authority, having been personally in the House and having listened with the greatest care to what fell from the noble Marquess, that I believed and accepted those words to mean that there had been no material change in our relations with Afghanistan. That is not all, because I addressed our Lordships, and I gave the noble Marquess an opportunity, of which he might have taken advantage, of explaining the misconception under which I laboured, and of stating to your Lor ships precisely the state of affairs as they existed at that time. As the matter is important, I must trouble your Lordships with the few words I used on that occasion. I said

"It is with great satisfaction, therefore, that I have heard the assurance of the noble Marquess that the policy I have referred to Her Majesty's Government will continue to pursue." -[3 Hansard, ccxxxiv. 1843.]

I therefore stated in the presence of your Lordships the interpretation I put on the words of the noble Marquess; and I further said

"I am satisfied that he has given us that as surance in perfect good faith, and that we may trust him to resist any attempt to put it aside." If it had not have been for that assurance, as I understood it, most un

ment was, and would have been able to express an opinion as to whether that policy was right or wrong, and whether we were to drift into the war in which we are now engaged. As I have said before, this is not simply a personal question. In dealing with distant countries great confidence must be placed in Her Majesty's Government, and great discretion must be used by those who differ from them. On such questions a Minister is required to be more careful than in dealing even with European questions. I have said what the assurances given were, and I have now to state what were the circumstances at the time they were given. So far from Her Majesty's Government not having desired to enter into any definitive Treaty engagement, an endeavour had been made to negotiate a Treaty with the Ameer; and so far from there having been no change in our relations with the Ameer, on the 15th of March, 1877, the assurances that had been given to the Ameer-of protection in the event of attack or of internal disturbance-by Lord Lawrence, Lord Mayo, and myself, had been withdrawn. under the instructions of the British Gofrom us had been repudiated, and he vernment, any expectation of support had been told that we were under no engagement except that of the Treaty of 1855, under which there was no obligation on our part except to refrain from interference, and to leave the Ameer entirely to himself. I was perfectly astounded by the condition of things revealed by the despatch addressed to the noble Marquess by the Viceroy on the 10th of May, 1877, which must have been in the hands of the noble Marquess at the time he gave the assurances in the House of Lords in June, 1877, of which I have spoken. It is with deep regret I am obliged to say this: it would not be right, the Question having been put, and the answer having been given, if I did not give my deliberate testimony that the statement then made by the noble Marquess gave me a completely incorrect impression of what

the real facts of the case were. I am must confess that I concur entirely not going now to enter into the general with that part of the argument of the policy of the war; but I must say I do noble Earl which rests upon the Act of not think the noble Duke behind me 1858. I hold that it is not right for any (the Duke of Somerset) was quite fair Administration carrying on war outside in his remarks about the noble Lord a India to apply the Revenues of that counlate Governor General (Lord Lawrence) try towards the expense of such war withfor having joined the Afghan Committee. out the previous consent of Parliament. In If my noble Friend had done such a this case there was plenty of time before thing in the sense of supporting the the declaration of war for the GovernAfghans against the British Govern- ment to have summoned Parliament and ment, no language would be too strong explained their policy; therefore, that to be used in the circumstances. But as would have been a proper and a Constimatters stand, I am surprised at the tutional course, because there can be noble Duke's condemnation of my no doubt that the Prerogative of the noble Friend. He has an opinion that Crown is limited by Act of Parliament, the war is right. Very good; but my and, although it is the Prerogative of noble Friend thinks it is unjust and the Crown to declare war, at the same impolitic-an opinion in which I myself time the clauses of the Act of 1858 pream very much disposed to concur with scribe the course that should be followed him. The noble Duke says that my under the circumstances. It has been a noble Friend is not patriotic; but he matter of extreme regret to me to be would appear not to be patriotic, sim- placed to some extent in collision with ply because he differs from the noble the noble Marquess and the noble Viscount Duke, and expresses the earnest opi- opposite. I have endeavoured since I nions which he holds. Few men in returned from India to abstain from this country have given such proofs making unnecessarily any observations as my noble Friend has done of pa- on Indian affairs. I can say with pertriotism, of vigour, of honour, and of fect sincerity that, both in and out of a desire at any risk to maintain the Parliament, I have endeavoured to look British Empire in India; and yet, be- at Indian affairs entirely apart from cause he does not happen to agree with Party politics; and I should not hesitate the noble Duke, he is to be spoken of in for a moment to express my opinion as such terms. It is repugnant to all my strongly with regard to anything done feelings of justice and to every sentiment by those on my own side of the House of propriety that a man of such distin- as with regard to the conduct of noble guished services should be so spoken of Lords opposite. in this House. My noble Friend has a perfect right to express his opinions on the causes of this war, and to say whether he thinks it just or unjust. It is fortunate that we have men like him in the country, who know something of our former relations with Afghanistan, and who can correct statements which have been made, and despatches which have been published, by the knowledge which they possess. One thing more. With regard to the Amendment proposed by the noble Earl (Earl Grey), I hope it will not be pressed to a division. Unfortunately, this discussion has assumed a somewhat personal character. Nobody more regrets that circumstance than I do; but from that very fact, if the Amendment were to be pressed, your Lordships would be asked to vote upon a proposition which you have not yet had an opportunity of fully and completely discussing. At the same time, I

THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELD : Although, my Lords, I cannot support the noble Earl who moved the Amendment, I still agree with him that there are occasions when Amendments to the Address are desirable, expedient, and politic. I think I may speak with some authority on the subject, for probably I am the only Member of this House who has, in his time, moved an Amendment to the Address-with what success I care not to recollect-but, at the same time, a feeling of duty, such as that which has animated the noble Earl, actuated me, and I am quite prepared to say that, under similar circumstances, I should deem it my duty to take a similar course. What, then, was the state in which we found ourselves some 25 years ago, advocating a cause with deep and warm convictions, but one which, perhaps, was not supported by a majority of the House, to which we appealed, or

the nation? The Recess had passed. | reinforced them as was required. This, We had all of us made a good many my Lords, is a strange vein to indulge in speeches-in which, probably, we had when we are asked not to enter upon the used language not much more measured merits of this question. If that insinuathan we have lately become accustomed tion against the Government be founded to; many of us had written letters on fact, we should be unworthy of the though not so many, perhaps, as some seats we hold. Is it to be said that those individuals have done in more modern soldiers, who have given so good an acimes; and, under these circumstances, count of the enemy, have not been adebeing also-if I may recall the circum-quately supported? Is the country to be stance without offence-members of a society of great activity and organization more active certainly than the Afghan Committee having agitated the country for a considerable time by the sincere expression of our opinion, we did think that when Parliament met we were bound to take the opinion of that great Assembly on the question which we had so long described as of the highest importance and of the most urgent interest. The noble Earl (Earl Grey) has taken that step to-day; but the noble Earl (Earl Granville), in his recognized position of Leader of the Opposition in this House, has taken an entirely different course. He has declared that to-night we are not to enter into the question of policy which so deeply interests the country, and which, if we are to judge from the speeches, organization, and conduct of noble Lords opposite and their friends in the country, so deeply excites and agitates them. We are not to-night to enter into the merits of that policy, but confine ourselves to what the noble Earl who last spoke (the Earl of Northbrook) so admirably described as descending into the personalities of the question. But, although the Leader of the Opposition told us that we were not to-night to enter upon the question of policy, he still felt it consistent with his duty to denounce the war into which we have entered as an unjust and impolitic war. He has still felt it consistent with his duty to hold up to depreciation and ridicule the Viceroy of the Queen, who is at this moment incurring the greatest responsibility, and on the devotion of whose intelligence more, perhaps, depends than on that of any other individual in the country. He has even felt it consistent with his views to intimate that Her Majesty's Ministers are, at this moment, neglecting their highest duty, and that they are not supporting those gallant men whose heroic exploits have just reached us, and that we have not

informed on the first opportunity that they are hardly equal to the exertions they have been called upon to make? Not more complimentary to the troops than to Her Majesty's Government. I cannot but feel that the country tomorrow will be greatly disappointed in reading this debate. To-morrow the country will not be considering what one ex-Minister may have written, or what a present Minister may have quoted. It may, under ordinary circumstances, be a legitimate mode of passing our time that we should compare notes on such subjects, and if any misrepresentations have been made as to the conduct or expression of individuals our utmost efforts on both sides should be given to rectify them; but is it right that hour after hour should be wasted, at a time when the country wants our opinion on one of the greatest issues ever submitted to the consideration of Parliament, in order to ascertain whether Secretary This misquoted the despatch of Governor General That? Hours have been passed in a discussion leading to such a mystification that, excepting the principal actors in the scene, I defy any human being to understand what the whole controversy is about. To whatever monstrous proportions you may exaggerate this discussion, it is nothing after all but an official squabble; while the real issue is the most important that can be presented for our consideration. See the unjust effect produced upon the House-By this singular process of debating, we are not to discuss to-night the policy to discuss which Parliament has been summoned. But though we are not to discuss it, the Leader of the Opposition has given his opinion on the great issue. He tells you we are engaged in an unjust and impolitic war. But what is this? It is mere assumption. If the war is unjust and impolitic, prove it. Bring forward your reasons and your arguments. Assail our policy, and give us the proofs on which your opinions are

77

Majesty's Most

DECEMBER 5, 1878}

We

founded. Do this and we will meet you, been akin to what has been charged and the House and the country will de- against my noble Friend the Secretary cide. That is the legitimate and Consti- of State for India (Viscount Cranbrook). tutional manner which the noble Earl of garbling in a despatch an epitome of (Earl Grey) has adopted in moving his important State Papers which he knew Amendment. But to-night we have been would necessarily be made known My Lords, the for hours listening in the House of Lords within 48 hours of the publication of whilst a number of influential men have his own despatch. Her Majesty has risen and denounced as unjust and im- language which politic what they refrain from attack- been advised to use in the gracious ing openly and frankly. It would be Speech from the Throne has been envain at this hour to enter into such a tirely warranted by circumstances. discussion. The noble Earl opposite do look upon the Berlin Treaty as cerhas, with consummate dexterity, pre-tain to be carried completely and sucvented any expression of opinion by cessfully into effect. But the noble Earl Parliament on this all-engrossing sub- says "It is not merely the Treaty of ject to-night. It is postponed to some Berlin. There are other Treaties; there day when there may be a long and ad- is the Convention with Turkey. Why journed debate; instead of now ani- not insert a paragraph in the Queen's mating the spirit of the country, and ex- Speech to inform Parliament what is plaining why they are called upon to make being done to effect the reform of the great sacrifices and encouraging that Ottoman Empire?" Why, the Treaty patriotic spirit which has been sneered at, of Berlin, like other Treaties, provides but which I trust there are some in this a certain specified time during which House who appreciate. A week may its arrangements may be properly caryet elapse, at a time very critical to this ried into effect, and a moiety of the connected country, before the opinion of Parlia- period has not yet elapsed. Probably the arrangements ment can be taken. I cannot refrain of all from expressing my entire disapproba- with the Treaty of Berlin, the arrangetion of this course of proceeding. I ad- ments with respect to Turkey are the mit its dexterity; but I think that there most important. But the noble Earl are times when Parliamentary manoeu- is under a great error in supposing vring, a very happy quality when great in- that nothing has been done. Unceasterests are not at stake, may be misplaced. ing labour has been bestowed upon There are one or two points on which I subject; and nothing but the great ability should not have touched on this occasion, of those who fortunately are in the embut for some remarks which the noble ployment of Her Majesty abroad, their Earl called upon me to notice. He has a perseverance, and untiring devotion to habit, when I do not notice every remark their task could have effected the conhe makes, most amiably to remind me siderable results already accomplished. of it, and I must notice what he tells us My Lords, I look forward to the Conabout the Treaty of Berlin. The noble vention respecting Turkey and Cyprus one likely to prove most advanEarl, who has already decided, without as discussion, the question of this war, ex-ageous, not merely for this country, presses great doubts about the state- but for the world in general; I look ment in the gracious Speech from the forward with confidence to the regeThrone, that Her Majesty has every rea- neration of Asia Minor. When the noble son to believe the Treaty of Berlin will Earl turns round and ridicules the be successfully carried into effect; and occupation of Cyprus and the objects he asks us, like a counsel cross-examin- for which we undertook that occupation, ing a doubtful witness-" But is this the I will tell him that it is not easy in real opinion of the Ministry?" If it language to describe the advantages of had not been, is it to be supposed that that position; and when the noble Earl we should have recommended Her Ma- assumes that the Island is wanting in jesty to use such language, and our- many qualities which were announced, selves have come down to support such and that its acquisition is a blunder, I a Speech from the Throne? Why, my can assure him that the conditions for Lords, in that case our conduct would which we agreed to occupy that Island have been not only infamous, but absurd. have been entirely fulfilled. I repeat I may, in fact, say that it would have without the slightest fear, after commu

the