MERCANTILE MARINE - MERCHANT Canada and foreign countries were, on

SHIPPING AND SEAMEN.

OBSERVATIONS.

reached a satisfactory stage-whether the whole, satisfied to be subjected, as we attempted to subject them, to the Act of 1876. If there were any Papers which his right hon. Friend could lay immediately upon the Table of the House, he thought he might say they would be exceedingly useful to the House, both as a comment upon what had passed, and as a guide for any further legislation which they might attempt with regard to our own or foreign seamen.

MR. GORST said, before the Appropriation Bill was passed, he wished to draw the attention of the Government to a pledge which they gave last Session, but which still remained unredeemed that they would deal with the state of the law by which merchant seamen were liable to be imprisoned for a breach of contract. He could not, of course, attempt to discuss that question now; and he had no doubt that if it were discussed, they would find considerable difference of opinion as to the extent to which these laws required amendment. The Government, however, last year had emphatically promised to deal with the question this Session, a pledge which they had neglected to fulfil. His object, however, in rising was to urge upon the Government the necessity of dealing with this question in the ensuing Session. Merchant seamen were not a class who had MR. HOPWOOD joined with the much social or electoral influence, and hon. Members who had spoken in presson that account their wants and grieving on the Government the necessity ances were apt to be somewhat overlooked.

MR. ARTHUR PEEL said, that the hon. and learned Member had remarked very properly on the omission of the Government to deal with the subject this year. The Act of 1875 had given further powers to the Board of Trade to stop unseaworthy ships, but the duration of that measure was limited to October, 1876. The provisions of that Act were included in the Act of 1876, which extended their operation, not only to British, but also to foreign ships, thus giving the Board of Trade a remarkable jurisdiction over foreign seamen and ships, the latter being liable to be detained if overloaded or improperly loaded, and power being given to inflict penalties in certain cases. At the time that measure was passed, apprehensions were entertained that we might possibly be exceeding our proper jurisdiction in extending its provisions to foreign seamen and ships. He believed that considerable correspondence had passed between the Government and foreign countries on this subject, and he was anxious to ascertain what was the nature of that correspondence-whether it had

MR. BURT agreed with the hon. and learned Member opposite (Mr. Gorst), that the Government had shown themselves indifferent as to the interests of our seamen, who were a very numerous and important portion of the population, and who occupied a most anomalous position. He hoped an assurance would be given that the Government would introduce a Bill early next Session to place British seamen in the same position as all other classes of working men.

of complying with the just demands of our seamen. At present, they were placed between the alternative of imprisonment for breach of contract, or of what appeared to them almost certain death by going to sea in unseaworthy vessels. It seemed to him a monstrous exhibition of tyranny to continue such a law on the Statute Book in its present terms. He hoped the Home Secretary would redeem his promise, and deal with the subject next Session. He thought if his hon. Friend (Mr. Burt) introduced next Session his own Bill on the question, it would strengthen the hands of the Government in dealing with it.

SIR CHARLES ADDERLEY said, the hon. and learned Member for Chatham (Mr. Gorst) complained with some bitterness of the conduct of the Government. He said they had not fulfilled the pledges they gave on the subject he brought before the House. He (Sir Charles Adderley) maintained, on the contrary, they had fulfilled those pledges to the utmost of their power, and he might appeal with confidence to the House on that matter. The pledges they gave were that they would deal as

soon as they possibly could with the | wick (Mr. Peel), whether foreign coungeneral subject of the discipline of sea- tries had experienced dissatisfaction men in the Merchant Service and with with those sections of the Merchant the introduction, as far as possible, of Shipping Act which referred to them, seamen into the provisions of the Em- he had to inform the House that there ployers and Workmen Act. A Bill was had been remonstrances from the United drafted and prepared, and it was now in States, Germany, and Norway. Those the office; but he appealed to the House remonstrances were in very general whether there had been any opportuni- terms. A theoretical objection was taken ties during the Session of introducing to an interference with their subjects the Bill with any chance of its receiving which had never really taken place, and that amount of explanation, discussion, which the answer sent by the Foreign and prospect of progress without which Office had satisfied them never could so important a subject ought not to be take place. As the correspondence had introduced? On that point, he took dis- terminated, he did not think it would be tinct issue with the hon. and learned wise to lay it on the Table. He trusted Member for Chatham. The hon. and the Act would work satisfactorily; but learned Member apparently thought the if any difficulty should arise, he should Government ought to have thrown the be happy to lay any correspondence beBill on the Table, without any possibi- fore the House which might be necessary lity of discussing it, or the slightest for its information. prospect of carrying it into law. Had MR. DODSON said, if the Governthey done so, the Bill would be discussed ment concurred in the view of the right during the whole Recess in the country, hon. Gentleman that this subject was and misapprehensions and misconcep- one of the greatest delicacy and importtions would arise respecting it, by which ance, why was not the Bill introduced the question would be prejudiced when at an early period of the Session, when it came under the consideration of the it might have been fully considered, House. No class of Her Majesty's sub-without haste or levity? It would seem jects had occupied the attention of the Legislature so largely during the last two years as the seamen. With regard to the subject itself, he had hoped that in private conversation the hon. and learned Member for Chatham had been convinced of the utter impracticability of his own views upon it. With regard to the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Morpeth (Mr. Burt), he could only say that he extremely regretted that it had shared the fate of his own Bill, and had not been discussed as its merits richly deserved. The hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Macdonald) had brought in a Bill dealing partially and vaguely with the subject, and in a manner which the House could not entertain. With regard to the intentions of the Government, all he could say was that he hoped the larger intervals for practical Business which he trusted would be secured next Session, in the absence of that dreary waste of words which had been inflicted this Session upon them to the detriment of the best interests of the

country, would give him a fair opportunity of dealing adequately with the delicate and important question of the discipline of merchant seamen. As to the question of the hon. Member for War

that he had not been able to impress its importance on the Cabinet, or the Bill would not have been brought forward at so late a period, and left to take its chance in the scramble at the close of the Session. He trusted the Bill would be introduced early next Session, so that they might have an opportunity of discussing it fully. As the right hon. Gentleman had not answered the appeal that had been made by his hon. Friend with regard to the objections taken by foreign Governments to the Merchant Shipping Act, he trusted some one of the right hon. Gentleman's Colleagues would give further information on the subject.

Bill read a second time, and committed for To-morrow.

TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL.
(Mr. Salt, Mr. Sclater-Booth.)
[BILL 204.] COMMITTEE.
Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."-(Mr. Sclater-Booth.)

DR. CAMERON, in moving that the House should upon that day three

Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "this House will, upon this day three months, resolve itself into the said Com(Dr. Cameron,) instead mittee,"

thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. GREGORY said, the Amendment was far too wide, because it would not only affect Scotch trusts, but also a great number of English trusts, which if it were carried would expire, and the maintenance of the roads would be thrown upon the ratepayers. The better way to raise the question would be by a distinct Amendment relating to Scotland. Nothing, however, could be more unsatisfactory than the existing state of highways in England, and he hoped the Government would pledge themselves to introduce a Bill next Session to abolish the existing anomalies with respect to them.

months resolve itself into the said Com- | the Turnpike Acts should be continued mittee, said, that he found recorded in a year after year without any attempt Return which had been laid before the being made to settle the matter in a House that the entire number of turnpike satisfactory way. trusts in Scotland affected by the Bill was 160 or 161, as against between 70 or 80 in England, showing how much more the Bill concerned Scotland than England. Of these, upwards of 100 Acts had expired, and were continued annually by the Turnpike Acts Continuance Bill. Now, there was an essential difference between the mode of treatment of the Scotch and the English expired Acts. In the case of England, each Act was referred to a Committee up-stairs, evidence was heard regarding it, and the Committee reported what was to be done with the Act. In accordance with the decision arrived at by the Committee, some of these Acts were continued in their original form, others were amended, and others again were allowed to expire; but in the case of the Scotch expired Turnpike Acts nothing of the kind took place. There was no inquiry whatever into them, and they were renewed as a matter of course. They were asked in this Bill to renew for two years upwards of 100 expired Turnpike Acts in Scotland, without there having been laid before the House, or before a Committee, a single reason why any one of them should be renewed. That was a state of things almost unprecedented in their experience of legislation. In consequence of these Acts being continued as a matter of course, and without any trouble whatever, all the persons who were interested in maintaining them had opposed every measure that had been brought forward in the interest of road reform. He believed that the majority of Scotch Members were in favour of the abolition of tolls, and that if the matter was referred to a Select Committee it would unanimously recommend their abolition. If the Government would consent to renew these Acts for only another year, instead of two, he should be willing to withdraw his opposition to the passing of the Bill. He thought that would be a fair compromise, and there would then be an opportunity next Session of dealing with these Acts in any way that might be thought desirable. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving the rejection of the Bill.

MR. M'LAREN seconded the Amendment, considering it most unjust that Dr. Cameron

MR. M'LAGAN said, he agreed to a great extent with the views put forward in opposition to the measure; but he did not see how they could deal with Scotch Turnpike Acts in the same manner as they dealt with the Turnpike Acts of England, for this reason, that when an English Turnpike Act expired, the roads were at once thrown upon the parish, and the parish was bound to keep them up. Such was not the case in Scotland. If the Committee were to deal with the Scotch turnpike roads, the effect would be that no person would be bound to keep up the Scotch turnpikes, and the result would be far more inconvenient than had been described. He warmly eulogized the efforts of the Home Secretary to pass a general Bill for Scotland, and attributed its withdrawal to the obstruction with which the measure had been met on the part of the mine owners. He trusted that next year the right hon. Gentleman would be able to pass such a measure as was required.

THE LORD ADVOCATE said, he earnestly desired that his hon. Friend

(Dr. Cameron) would never have another | with a view to a settlement of the quesopportunity of making such a Motion as he tion that the County Members should be had made that night, because he trusted agreed upon that which was proposed to that in the course of next Session, be- be done. The measure which he had fore such an opportunity could possibly brought forward afforded an opportuoccur, they would have passed a Roads nity of dealing with the subject in a and Bridges Bill for Scotland He was comprehensive way and upon a satisfachappy to say that when the Amend- tory basis; but, unfortunately, it had ments to the Bill were critically ex- had to be withdrawn in consequence of amined, the fact was revealed that they other matters more interesting to Paronly affected four counties in which the liament having cropped up. interests of the burghs and the counties had not been practically adjusted. He trusted that the Government would put the Bill in such a position as to ensure its becoming law before the end of next Session, seeing that they were now in a better position to legislate on the subject than they had ever hitherto been. The effect of rejecting the measure before the House would be to take away the means by which the roads were kept in repair, and thus ultimately to inflict a heavy burden upon the ratepayers when a general measure was passed transferring the roads to them.

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR said, he objected very strongly to the right hon. and learned Lord Advocate and the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. M'Lagan) raising bugbears which had nothing whatever to do with the question before the House. He complained that the present Bill had no Schedule of their Scotch roads, as of the English, merely a general clause which provided, in a sweeping manner, the continuance of all expiring turnpike Acts within Great Britain. The Turnpike Acts Continuance Bill, brought in by the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN Board (Mr. Sclater-Booth), and by the said, it had only been through untoward hon. Gentleman the Member for Stafford circumstances, which could not have been (Mr. Salt) the Secretary of the Board, foreseen, that the Roads and Bridges Bill failed to state the Acts and roads of had not been passed this year, and he Scotland which were to be temporarily promised the Government, in the event maintained, with turnpikes; but the Bill of their introducing a general measure stated, in seven Schedules, every road next Session, a hearty support from that and every expiring turnpike Act of side of the House. As they were a Go- England to be kept up. That was to be vernment pledged especially to domestic, accounted for by the fact of the Local as opposed to sensational measures, he Government Board having no duties to strongly urged them to deal with the perform relating to Scotland, and thus, highway question as one essentially of under cover of a purely English Bill, the former character, and recommended the roads of Scotland were kept up as the county Members, the great majority turnpikes under a general clause; and of whom were supporters of the Govern- he told the Government that they were ment, to press them for legislation upon not acting fairly towards Scotland. But this subject. He especially urged that it was not only so far as the Roads and an English Highways Bill should be Bridges Bill was concerned that the introduced at an early period of the Scotch Representatives had been badly Session, and after the discussion which treated, and he told the Home Secretary had taken place, he recommended the that Scotch Business had been shamehon. Member for Glasgow to withdraw fully neglected. ["Oh, oh!"] his Amendment, which, without re- spoke his mind on the subject-he was moving the Scotch grievance, would in the habit of doing so, and he would be very inconvenient as regarded the not say behind the Home Secretary's English Turnpike Acts, for which pro-back what he would not say to his face. vision was made in the Bill.

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH said, the question of legislation for the highways and turnpikes of England had long been under the consideration of the Government, and it was certainly expedient,

He

[Mr. ASSHETON CROSS: Hear, hear!] Much as he regretted the course taken by the Irish Members, which he considered improper and wrong, the Scotch Members had even more reason for complaint. He repeated, that the Scotch