was entirely absorbed in a sentiment of pain:-he had come to the conclusion that, on the whole, his duty would be best performed by supporting the proposal of the Government, and that the best support he should tender would be support given in silence. He rose at the present moment in consequence of what had fallen from the hon. and learned Member for Louth (Mr. Sullivan). The declaration of the hon. and learned Member could not be passed by in absolute silence. Anyone reading a report of it would necessarily come to the conclusion that it was a very solemn utterance very deliberately made by a gentleman whose powers had enabled him and entitled him to command on many occasions the marked attention of the House; that it denoted a crisis in the relations between the two countries; and that the words he used were words which only could have been used with any degree of appropriateness on the occasion of the passing of a conclusive vote of the House which went greatly to abridge liberty of speech in this Chamber, and which was well understood to be aimed at the Representatives of Ireland. Upon such a supposition as that the words of the hon. and learned Member would be natural, and would be becoming. Being conscious himself of no heat or excitement, or feeling that would bias him adversely to the hon. and learned Member, he would ask whether there was not an almost ludicrous contrast between the weight and force of the expressions he had used and the proposition that was before the House? There was no question of a ruling from the Chair-which necessarily must be, as no man was infallible, a matter more or less of personal opinion; there was no question about the Forms and Rules of the House-everything that night had been conducted according to rules with which they were all familiar. The penal operation of the Resolution was confined within very narrow limits-a doubt had even been suggested as to whether it was worth while to propose it-but, whether narrow or broad, its penal operation was to lapse within a fortnight or three weeks, which was the extreme term anyone would assign to the Session; and if ever it were revived as a proposal of the Government, it would be subject to full consideration and discussion de novo upon its merits as a proposition which was

originally introduced under peculiar circumstances, and must necessarily undergo revision. He did not wish to arouse the feeling of the House against the hon. and learned Member for Louth— he wished rather to express the conviction he entertained, that, with the judgment and good sense he had so often shown in the House, he himself would re-consider the words he had used, and would see that there was nothing of a violent and sweeping character in the Resolution. He would, then, hope that the hon. and learned Member would be the first to disavow them, if not by express declaration, at least by his conduct in that House. He was sure he spoke the general sense of the House when he said of the hon. and learned Member and of those with whom he acted, that the great object of the House generally was, by fair and equitable conduct, to retain where they possessed, and to win if they did not possess, the affections and attachment of their countrymen, and to make the names of the two Isles which existed on the Statute Book a union, not of laws only, but of hearts.

MR. GRAY rose to move to add, at the end of the Resolution, the following Proviso:

"Provided always, That no Member shall vote on such Motion who was not present when the matter complained of occurred." The Resolution spoke for itself. His object was to prevent some 200 or 300 Gentlemen who had seen and heard nothing of what occurred in Committee or in the House, when a Member had been censured, from rushing from the dining-room and other rooms to vote at the suggestion or on the direction of the 'Whips" when a division was called. A desire had been expressed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and by the Leader of the Opposition that no personal matter should be introduced into the discussion; but almost every speaker had introduced personal references. It was impossible now to dis-associate this Resolution from certain incidents and to treat it as an impersonal matter, as it might have been treated had it been proposed some weeks ago. He could speak with some knowledge of the effect of these Resolutions on Ireland; and he would venture to say that in Ireland they would certainly be treated as an attack upon two or three individuals—

had not heard the proceedings that he hoped the Government would consent to adopt it.

and it certainly looked like it if, as had been stated, and not as yet been denied, the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down on Wednesday having in his pocket the draft of the Resolution with a blank for the name. At all events, it was of such a nature that it cer

tainly did not appear on the records of the House in the form in which it was moved and read from the Chair. He trusted the right hon. Gentleman would contradict the statement he had referred to, if it were unfounded. The so-called "policy of obstruction" was being widely discussed in Ireland, and much difference of opinion existed with regard to it. He had not himself taken part in it, and had a strong opinion as to the policy of the course pursued by hon. Gentlemen whom he was proud to call his Friends. He believed that the majority of the popular party in Ireland were at first of opinion that the policy of obstruction was not desirable; but when it was felt that the Resolutions of the Government were levelled at two or three individuals, popular sympathy would be excited, and those who were disposed to condemn obstruction would now support it. They were, therefore, only advancing a step on the downward path;-more stringent Rules would have to be adopted for next Session, for the Party of two or three would then be increased to 20 or 30, and after a Dissolution would number, he believed, as many as 80. If the Leader of the House had not on Wednesday somewhat lost his head, but had postponed taking any action till next Session, there might have been no occasion for any action at all, for the Irish people would, during the Recess, have so settled the question that no alteration of the Rules of the House would have been necessary. The policy of the Government had been adopted in haste, and he believed would end disastrously. He proposed this Amendment in order that hon. Gentlemen who had been down in the smoking-room or the library during the discussion should not rush into the House when the division bell rang, and vote upon an occasion of this nature under the direction of the Government Whips.

MR. DILLWYN, in seconding the Amendment, said, it was so obviously just that the matter complained of should not be judged of by those who

Mr. Gray

Amendment proposed,

To add, at the end of the Question, the words "Provided always, That no Member shall vote on such Motion who was not present when the matter complained of occurred.”—(Mr. Gray.)

MR. BERESFORD HOPE trusted that the Government would pause before they adopted a principle which would make a complete revolution in the procedure. Once adopt the principle, although upon a special question and for plausible reasons, that there could be two Houses-one, so to say, an inner House and the other an outside House with limited privileges-the matter could not stop there, but a very dangerous precedent would have been created. He thought the danger anticipated would not arise. The House was, unfortunately, so fond of personal questions that there was little chance of their being discussed in thin Houses, and a procedure so essentially novel ought not to be adopted during the mere fragment of a Session that now remained.

DR. CAMERON believed that the Resolution before the House adopted no new principle. About a fortnight ago the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Whalley) having been called to Order three times, and having again gone into irrelevant matter, the Speaker said that if the hon. Member persisted in disregarding the ruling of the Chair, he should call upon some other hon. Member to address the House. He therefore wished to ask whether the House did not affirm by this Resolution a principle which already existed? He thought they could get on very well without the Resolution, and also that the Resolution would do no harm.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I wish to say one or two words

not so much as to the Amendment of the hon. Member for Tipperary as upon a personal remark which he made as to my conduct. With regard to the Amendment, I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for the University of Cambridge (Mr. Beresford Hope) that it establishes a new principle, which cannot be confined to this particular case. It would be a question whether, if it were required in this instance that no hon. Gentleman should vote who had not

MR. GRAY said, he did not say he had understood that this was so, but that it had been so stated in the House and not denied.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: A statement to that effect was made, I think, by the hon. and learned Member for Louth (Mr. Sullivan) or some other hon. Gentleman, and I contradicted it at the moment; but as it has been repeated, it may be as well that I should say that it was not at all the case that I came down here on Wednesday with any such Resolution in my pocket, or that I contemplated anything of the kind. I was prepared certainly to watch what might be the course of the discussion in Committee, and after the proceedings had gone on for some time I thought it necessary to interpose. I did so on the spur of the moment, and moved that certain words should be taken down which illustrated the character of the proceedings in Committee. Well, Sir, I had only two or three minutes before me, while the Speaker was coming in, and then in a summary way I gave notice that I proposed to move certain Resolutions, and that I should also move that Mr. Parnell be suspended from the service of the House. While I was doing! that the Clerks at the Table were good enough to prepare for me the proper form of such a Motion, and that was the Resolution I proposed. Having never given formal Notice as to this Resolution, it could not appear on the Journals, and that is the reason why it does not appear. But the truth is that the whole matter

was done very quickly-I believe that what I did was, on the whole, rightly done, and that, on the whole, it was well to raise the question at the time-not for any purpose of attacking vindictively any person or party, but to call the attention of the House to proceedings to which I thought it necessary its attention should be directed.

MR. BIGGAR supported the Amendment of his hon. Friend the Member for

MR. MITCHELL HENRY believed his hon. and learned Friend the Member for Louth (Mr. Sullivan) had struck the main point of the whole question. An hon. Member's defence ought to be heard. The Resolution of the Government would inflict the severest penalty short of actual expulsion, and he protested against a proposal so un-English, un-British, and un-Irish.

MAJOR O'GORMAN said, they had been told by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to-day that he hoped no acrimonious feeling would be imported into this debate. He should like very much to have this question answered-How was royal Meath, which had returned his hon. Friend (Mr. Parnell) as its Representative, to receive the intelligence of the mode in which the right hon. Gentleman had treated him. He had a right to suppose that he sought to put him out of the House in a state of disgrace, which had recoiled upon himself, and which would assuredly recoil upon. himself with the people of Ireland. But his object in rising on that occasion was not to vindicate his hon. Friend—that he was able to do for himself, and the people of Ireland were able to do it for him. But he asked the English people

he did not ask the Members of that House-it was vain to do it but he asked the English people to take care of their liberties, or a new Cromwell would walk into that House and desire "that bauble" to be taken away.

Question put, "That those words be there added."

The House divided:-Ayes 40; Noes 312: Majority 272.-(Div. List, No. 256.)

Amendment proposed,

To add, at the end of the Question, the words "Provided always, That if the Committee be the Committee of Supply or Ways and Means, such Member shall not be debarred from speaking on any Item subsequent to that with refer

ence to which such Motion shall have been made."-(Mr. O'Shaughnessy.)

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER thought it would be objection