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Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you get one?
Mr. ADLERMAN. After you examined that balance and complained about it to the executive board, did you have any difficulty getting a job?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir; I did. I didn't work out of the local for a year. There in that local they have it where the officers can work in that jurisdiction and have a run, so to speak. At this time, a big job was starting at Pine Bluff, at the International Paper Co., and I went up to get a job and the president told me it would look bad to have all the members of the executive board working.
Mr. ADLERMAN. All the other members were working on that same job?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
Mr. ADLERMAN. But they said it would look bad if you worked on the same job?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
Mr. ADLERMAN. That was after you complained in the executive board meeting as to the financial records?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you have to pay a doby or an assessment down there to work?
Mr. Lucas. No, sir. It is just the dues.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Does that job come under the jurisdiction of the Pipe Fitters?
Mr. Lucas. No, sir; under the jurisdiction of the IAM.
Mr. LUCAS. About a year after the election, that was June 1956, I went up to see the business agent, Ermon Griffin, at that time. Mr. Griffin had stepped up to special representative and he had appointed his brother, Ermon, as a business representative of 706.
Is asked him for a job and he gave me one, a job on a small refinery there. I worked about 3 weeks and the job steward came around and said, “We are going to have a layoff. Do you want to go to the International Paper Co. at Pine Bluff ?”
I worked up there for 3 weeks and I got a chance to get this job down at Crossett, and it was becoming evident that it would be hard to get a job out of 706, so I took it and have a permanent job.
Mr. ADLERMAN. You attribute your difficulties in getting a job to the fact that you raised questions in the executive board about the finances in the union?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir. Included in that $3.50 doby is a $1.50 building fund. We had been collecting that for several years, and it had about $90,000. I thought there was enough for a building big enough for our local. I suggested we spend it and buy the building. The building was bought during the time I was on the executive board. We paid $67,000 for it, but they continued to collect the building fund. I questioned the need for it. No one agreed that we should take it back because Mr. Griffin wanted to collect it.
Mr. ADLERMAN. You say that the financial records were read at each meeting, or at most of the meetings?
Mr. Lucas. No, sir. Sometimes as much as 4 or 5 months elapsed between reading the finance report.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Did they ever give you the details of what they spent the money for?
Mr. Lucas. No, sir; no details.
Mr. ADLERMAN. They only gave you end results of the financial statement !
Mr. Lucas. A bunch of fast figures, real fast, that you couldn't really understand and keep up with.
The CHAIRMAN. In other words, they just went out there and recited them off very fast?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. They didn't provide anybody a copy of their statement, but it was just a hurried reading off at the meeting?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And that dealt with how much they collected and how much they had spent; is that correct?
Mr. LUCAS. I am not sure that each reading was a collection. It was mostly the part of the expenditures. They would give you a balance on some of the stuff. They would be several months behind in each reading so we couldn't keep up with it accurately.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Duffy?
Mr. Duffy. Regarding these general membership meetings, was there ever a recitation of expenses which were expended from the union, such as buying fishing rods or boats or anything like that?
Mr. Lucas. No, sir.
Mr. Duffy. You never knew exactly what the money was expended for, but you just knew that a certain amount was expended ?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir; with the one exception. When I was on the executive board, they recommended that we buy Mr. Griffin a Chrysler automobile.
The CHAIRMAN. Was it bought?
The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further you wish to state about this, Mr. Lucas? Is there any other information that you have that you think is pertinent to this inquiry?
Mr. Lucas. Well, while I was on the executive board they asked that we gather at Mr. Griffin's fish camp for an executive board meeting. They said one of the fellows was frying up some fish. We went down there, and after the meal the subject of buying an airplane for the local was brought up. Of course, he finally got around to asking me what I thought of it, and I told him, well, I wasn't as progressive as I might be, but I didn't think the local needed one to conduct their business in and wasn't financially able to afford one.
At the next meeting, the purchase of the plane was brought up on the floor and defeated by a majority vote of the members. Since then I understand they bought a plane. I don't know how much it cost.
The CHAIRMAN. When was that effort made that you are talking about?
Mr. Lucas. In 1956.
The CHAIRMAN. In 1956?
The CHAIRMAN. At that time they voted against buying an airplane for him?
Mr. Lucas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lucas. I don't know. We didn't have access to the records. But at one time I understood there was about 600.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.
The CHAIRMAN. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate Subcommittee on Investigations shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HULSEY. I do.
TESTIMONY OF T. A. HULSEY
The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your present business or occupation, or employment.
Mr. HULSEY. T. A. Hulsey, 931 Brookwood Drive, El Dorado. I am a service-station operator at 430 East Main, El Dorado.
The CHAIRMAN. Are you now or were you formerly a member of Steam Fitters Union Local No. 706 in El Dorado?
Mr. HULSEY. I was from 1941 until 1954.
The CHAIRMAN. You were one of the charter members, I believe, of the local ?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. HULSEY. Well, discrimination. I have always been against that boy, ever since he has been in there, very nearly.
The CHAIRMAN. Who are you talking about?
Mr. HULSEY. Earl Griffin. It looked like if I was going to work I just as well move.
The CHAIRMAN. Why did you say you were against him!
Mr. HULSEY. Well, there was a number of reasons. One of the main ones was that I didn't like his tactics, the way he run his job. Just some few people worked all the time and some few were discriminated against so bad they couldn't making a living out of it.
The CHAIRMAN. Were you one of those discriminated against ? Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; I was. The CHAIRMAN. During the last year that you were in the union, did you have any jobs ?
Mr. HULSEY. No, sir. The last job I worked on while I was in 706 was on the Pine Bluff job.
The CHAIRMAN. That is what we call the Pine Bluff Arsenal job?
Mr. HULSEY. That is right. That is where the biggest part of our troubles started.
The CHAIRMAN. You did work there?
Mr. HULSEY. To begin with, he always wanted to dictate to the position you held, the kind of job you did, and who you worked for, which was strictly my policy of working. They put me in the field, way out in the mud
to begin with, because it was just starting. The CHAIRMAN. That was when the job just started at Pine Bluff? Mr. HULSEY. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. That would be late 1951; would it?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes. I stayed in the field down under three different foremen, hustling material for them, with a winch truck and a helper. It didn't seem like me or my helper could satisfy anybody so I asked to be transferred over into the material end of it, with Mr. Terry.
They gave me the transfer when they found out I wasn't going to work anyplace else. That is where it started. Then in a few days I was in a shop in their office building and walked in just in time to hear Yocom talking. I suppose it was to Griffin. Anyway, I heard him mention my name and I stood there and listened.
The CHAIRMAN. Yocom was talking to someone and you thought you heard him mention your name?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes; I thought so. And they said to have me report tonight at Building 50, and I shook my head, and he covered the telephone receiver and said, “You are not going to go!" and I said "No," and he said, “The little man said you are going and you are going."
The CHAIRMAN. Who is "the little man"?
The CHAIRMAN. And when he saw you, he put his hand over the phone so his conversation with you couldn't be heard ?
Mr. HULSEY. That is right.
The CHAIRMAN. And he asked you if you were going to go on that particular job that night and you told him you were not, and he told you the little man said you would go and the little man was Earl Griffin
Mr. HULSEY. That is who he called the little man, Earl Griffin.
The CHAIRMAN. Was that his general way of referring to Earl Griffin ?
Mr. HULSEY. That is right. That is the way he referred to him most of the time. What he was trying to do was to set up the foremen over there to handle this job like he wanted it. And I never wanted any part of it, the way he handled his men and the
he handled his job. So I refused it.
That is where our trouble started and it still lasts, from then on. The CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you have occasion frequently to ride to and from work with Mr. Yocom in his car!
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; I rode with Yocom the biggest part of the time. Of course, along just before I left up there he got to where he had to stay out there quite a bit at night, so I changed my rides then with a fellow by the name of Little.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you have an occasion to observe the conduct of Yocom while he was on the job?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; quite a bit.
Mr. HULSEY. Well, I will express it this way: In my idea it was pretty bad conduct.' He drank a lot and conducted himself in a manner that I disapprove of a lot.
Mr. ADLERMAN. On occasions when you were riding with Mr. Yocom, did you about once a week or so carry any articles with you?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; sometime. Now, it wasn't every week.
Mr. HULSEY. Sometimes it would be every week and sometimes he would skip a week or two. He would call at the warehouse and have me clock out early in order to come in with him. Well, we would always bring assessment money in with us when we would come.
Mr. ADLERMAN. How was that assessment money carried ?
Mr. HULSEY. Sometimes it would be in paper sacks and sometimes just in a paper box or anything they could pick up to put it in. Each individual's money was put in an envelope and those envelopes just piled in the boxes or sacks.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Did the money ever come loose?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; it was a DeSoto station wagon that we would be riding in.
The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean?
Mr. HULSEY. Well, it would be scattered on the floor. I didn't have sense enough to touch any of it. Most of the time that I clocked ou to come in with him he had me to drive.
Mr. ADLERMAN. And was some put in the glove compartment and some on the floor?
Mr. HULSEY. I had seen envelopes in that automobile that had been hauled long enough that you couldn't make out the names on them.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean he would leave them in there? Mr. HULSEY. Just leave them in there. The CHAIRMAN. Was he that careless with the money? Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; he was pretty careless with it. The CHAIRMAN. What was his condition with respect to sobriety? Would he be intoxicated ?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir; a lot of times I have carried him home when he was drunk.
The CHAIRMAN. And he was in charge of this money ?
The CHAIRMAN. What did you do with it when you got to El Dorado?
Mr. HULSEY. If we got in before they closed, we took it to the office; and if we got in after they closed, we took it to Griffin's house.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever go when you took it to Griffin's house?
Mr. HULSEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HULSEY. That would be hard to say, but it was more than one time; several times.
The CHAIRMAN. What did you do after you got to Griffin's house?