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WITNESSES (ROYAL COMMISSIONS
AND PARLIAMENT) PROTECTION
BILL. (No. 287.)

SECOND READING.

Second Reading, I think it is only right
to say that very
careful consideration
must be given to Sub-section 1 of Clause
1 and the language therein used. The
words are, any person who " dissuades,
These
hinders, or intimidates," &c.
words are, I think, altogether too
broad, because they would include
people who legitimately object, or pro-

a Commission. I remember, in 1874,
when the Conservative Party were
in power, they proposed and con-
stituted a Commission for the pur-

pose

Order for Second Reading read. (12.25.) MR. YERBURGH (Chester): In moving the Second Reading of this Bill I may mention that an under-bably would object, to the inquiry by standing has been arrived at with the hon. and learned Member for Hackney (Sir Charles Russell) by which with the assent of the Government if the House will give a Second Reading to this Bill and to the Bill introduced by the hon. and learned Member, the two Bills shall be referred to a Select Committee. I do not think it is necessary for me to trouble the House with any detailed reference to the provisions of As the House knows it the Bill. arises out of recent proceedings upon a breach of privilege, and the firm conviction in the minds of myself and my friends that distrust has been aroused among the working classes as to the power of Parliament to protect those who give evidence in a Parliamentary inquiry.

Motion made, and Question proposed "That the Bill be now read a second time."-(Mr. Yerburgh.)

(12.26.) DR. TANNER: This Bill, I understand, is the issue of the proceedings arising out of the wrongful dismissal of the man Hood, who gave evidence before a Committee, and was, for so doing, dismissed from his employment by an hon. Gentleman, a member of the Conservative Party, and other Directors of the Cambrian Railway Company, and for which the hon. Gentleman and his coDirectors incurred most severe censure from the Chair.

(12.27.) MR. MORTON: I do not rise to make any objection; but I think it should be clearly understood that the Bill of the hon. Member for Hackney (Sir C. Russell) dealing with the same subject should also receive a Second Reading, otherwise we may find ourselves jockeyed after passing this Bill.

(12.28.) MR. BROADHURST (Nottingham, W.): Before the Bill proceeds further, and not now objecting to the VOL. III. [FOURTH SERIES.]

which we, the organised Trade Unions of inquiring into questions considered had been inquired into and debated quite sufficiently, and we objected on reasonable and quite sufficient grounds to giving evidence or taking mission. With the Bill in force leaders any part in the proceedings of the Comof Trade Unions, if they so acted now, would be liable to the penalties under the Bill. I do hope, if the Second Reading is now agreed to, care will be taken at a future stage to carefully consider the language of Clause 1, so that the Bill may not really do more injury than it will do good.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read a second time, and committed to a Select Committee.

MERCHANT SHIPPING ACTS AMEND-
MENT BILL.-(No. 229.)

SECOND READING.

Order for Second Reading read.

(12.30.) MR. HOWELL (Bethnal Green, N.E.): I hope the House will now allow this Bill to be read a second time. The promoters of the Bill have come to an arrangement with the shipowners' representatives by which we have agreed to leave out all reference to the examination of papers, and to amend the second clause in reference to the inspection of provisions. If the House will permit, I propose to insert the Amendments in Committee pro forma, and then, when the Bill has been reported, to move its re-committal.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second

time."-(Mr. Howell.

Motion agreed to.
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RETURN.

MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.): I beg to move the Motion for the Return standing in my name.

to supplement the existing Salmon and NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND).— Freshwater Fisheries Acts by providing a means of identifying packages containing salmon, trout, or char which may be transmitted from place to place during the period in which the sale or possession of such fish is already, with certain exceptions, illegal. The Bill has the support of the hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Dillwyn), the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Berwickshire (Mr. Marjoribanks), and others interested in fishery questions.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."-(Sir E. Birkbeck.)

THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Sir J. GORST, Chatham): I am afraid I cannot consent to this without some further consideration. The preparation of the Return will be very expensive. Perhaps the hon. Member will give me a day or two to look into the matter?

MR. SEXTON: This is a somewhat strange proceeding. The Return is in relation to the National Education of Ireland; it concerns the Department of the Chief Secretary, and he, the Bill read a second time, and com- Minister responsible, has stated that mitted for Thursday.

Motion agreed to.

COMMISSIONERS CLAUSES ACT (1847)
AMENDMENT BILL.-(No. 216.)
SECOND READING.

Order for Second Reading read.
MR. DILLWYN (Swansea, Town):
I hope the House will allow this Bill
to be read a second time now. Its
object is simply to allow the elections for
Commissioners, Trustees, and cognate
bodies to be conducted by the ballot
bodies to be conducted by the ballot
instead of by open voting. I do not
know that there is any objection to the
principle.

Objection taken.

he has no objection to the Return. I am extremely surprised at the right hon. Gentleman's interposition now.

SIR J. GORST: I did not understand that my right hon. Friend had no objection to the Return. At any rate, I cannot let the Motion pass without some further converse with him.

MR. SEXTON: The right hon. Gentleman distinctly stated that he would raise no objection, but he observed that the Return would take a

long time to prepare, and probably would not be ready in time for the

discussion of the

Education Bill.

But he certainly said he had no objection to giving the Return. I certainly think the organisation on the

Second Reading deferred till Wednes- Treasury Bench must be defective

day.

when the Secretary refuses what a

Minister has accepted. I will renew | bers voting "No." Mr. Speaker, I my Motion to-day. was sitting in my place the whole time, and took no part in the Division, and

PUBLIC LIBRARIES LAW CONSOLIDATION I desire that my name may be struck

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Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."

PERSONAL EXPLANATION.

MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne): I desire, Mr. Speaker, to call your attention to a small matter affect ing myself, partly in the nature of a personal explanation, having relation to Division List 91 in the proceedings of Thursday last. A question was put that the Clergy Discipline Bill be committed to the Standing Committee on Law, and Mr. Courtney, acting as Deputy Speaker in your unavoidable absence, directed that the Members who challenged a Division should stand up in their places. The record stands in the Votes thus:

"The House proceeded to a Division, and Mr. Deputy Speaker stated he thought the Ayes had it, and on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was frivolously claimed; and he directed the Noes to stand up in their places, and Fourteen Members having stood up, Mr. Deputy Speaker declared that the Ayes had it." To my great astonishment, when I looked at the Division List, I found my name at the head of the list of Mem

out of the List. I should not have called attention to the mistake in this manner-it is a mistake for which I do not blame anyone-but for the fact that it may render me liable to the charge of obstructing a measure I have been asked to support by my constituents, and which, in their interest, I promised to support. May I also, Sir, venture to offer a humble suggestion that when Members are asked to stand up in their places it might be as well that the names should be read over before the List is passed in order that mistakes may not occur?

MR. SPEAKER: I will take care that the remarks of the hon. Member have attention. I understand that the hon. Member desires that his name should be struck out. The correction shall be made.

MR. CONYBEARE: Yes, Sir, I supported the Bill in two other Divisions.

MR. SEXTON: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary to the Treasury, who just now interfered to prevent the granting of a Return in which his Department is not concerned, whether and when he intends to fulfil the promise he gave in reference to a matter in which his Department is concerned-namely, to lay before the House Papers in explanation of the Irish Teachers' Pension Fund? Treasury fiasco in reference to the

SIR J. GORST: I recognise the courtesy of the hon. Member's reference to myself. The Papers will be presented as soon as the Committee have furnished their Report. As to the Return, I may explain to the hon. Member that I do not wish at all to stop it if it is desired by the Government of Ireland, but the hon. Gentleman should be aware that the preparation of this Return involves considerable expenditure which it is necessary the Treasury should sanction before it is incurred.

MR. SEXTON: It is, I believe, in accordance with the usual custom to assume that a Return will be granted

when not opposed by the head of the
Department concerned.

MR.CAUSTON (Southwark, W.): In
reference to the suggestion made by the
hon. Member for Camborne just now, I
hope it will receive favourable con-
sideration, because this is not the first
time a mistake of the kind has
occurred.

DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid):
Will the right hon. Gentleman, who
takes such an unusual interest in
matters of Irish administration, give us
some explanation of, and say if anything
has been done to remove, the deadlock
between the Post Office and the Trea-
sury, which prevents the citizens of
Cork from having that improvement in
their postal service they have every
right to claim? A small sum of £3,000
is required for the purpose of giving us
Mr. Sexton

an accelerated service on the Great
Southern and Western Railway. The
Postmaster General admits the justice
of the claim, but the Treasury blocks
the way. Can the right hon. Gentle-
man say if anything is being done to re-
move this deadlock?

SIR J. GORST: The hon. Member
will be glad to learn that there is no
deadlock between the Post Office and
the Treasury. Nothing has been done,
and nothing is likely to be done. The
Departments are in a perfect state of
harmony.

DR. TANNER: I will refer to the
subject in Committee of Supply.
Motion agreed to.

House adjourned at a quarter
before One o'clock.

[INDEX.]

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The subjects of Debate, as far as possible, are classified under General Headings:-e.g.,
ARMY-BOARD OF AGRICULTURE-BOARD OF TRADE-COLONIES-EDUCATION-FOREIGN
AFFAIRS-INDIA-IRELAND-NAVY-PARLIAMENT POST OFFICE-SCOTLAND, &c.

BERDEEN, EARL OF (Viscount | Accumulations Bill [c. No. 277] ·

A Gordon)

Labourers (Ireland) Allotments Bill, 530

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Intro. Sir R. Webster; Read 1o, 1227
Debated 1737; Read 2o, 1743

Achill Viaduct, County Mayo

Q. Mr. Sexton, A. Sir H. Maxwell, 679

ACLAND, Mr. Arthur H. Dyke, York,
W.R., Rotherham

Education and Local Taxation Relief (Scot-
land) Bill, 400, 1850

Maltby Telegraph Office, 982

Secondary Education (England) Bill, 1084
Small Agricultural Holdings Bill, 725

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