"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."*

John Stuart Mill, "The Contest in America," Fraser's Magazine, February, 1862. [Mr. Saul L. Penn is an American citizen and a scientist residing in Bethesda, Md. The speech above was delivered to a local Toastmasters International Club on the date noted.] Ladies and gentlemen may I respectfully suggest that those better men today have recently returned from Vietnam. Certainly, appeals for amnesty should be considered on an individual basis; but as a general principal, in view of the type of government that we have, the illegal avoidance of service in the armed forces of the United States should not be excused.

APPENDIX III

SAUL L. PENN.

The Noncommissioned Officers Association of the United States of America, composed of 160,000-plus noncommissioned and petty officers of the United States Armed Forces; 85 percent of which are on active duty as career-enlisted military members; is opposed to granting amnesty to those men who avoided the draft or deserted the Armed Forces during the Vietnam conflict.

We have listened to many appeals-everything from, "They were too young to realize the error of their ways"-to, "It has been done before, so let's do it again." But to any and all pleas, we can only say, "Humbug!"

These men are criminals-just as certain as one who commits or contributes to murder, or at least homicide. Their refusal to be drafted, or go into or remain in combat, caused others to be drafted, sent into combat as their replacements, and possibly wounded, maimed or killed.

There is only one way to deal with these men, and that is through due process of the law. They may return and lend their pleas of extenuating circumstances— if there are any-to their cases before a competent judge and jury. If the latter feels they are or are not criminally liable, then justice has been accomplished.

But to let them return to the country they have shunned, and possibly serve in the armed forces when there is little or no chance of being shot at by an enemy, is a slap in the face to the millions of men who were drafted, who were wounded, who were maimed, or who were killed in a bloody, unpopular war.

To further excuse these men because of youthful age bears no rationale to recent congressional action allowing 18-year-olds the right to vote. If they are old enough to vote, they are old enough to serve their Nation.

The good God calls upon us to be merciful-to forgive our trespassers, but He did not mention "amnesty." Our mercy and our forgiveness can be granted through the present judicial system.

[The above commentary was delivered by C.A. Mack McKinney, Director of Legislative Affairs, NCO Association, on WTOP-TV, Channel 9, Washington, D.C., Tuesday, February 5, 1974, in answer to a Hugh Sidey commentary advocating. Amnesty on January 27, 1974.]

Mr. DRINAN. Does Mr. Cavin want to say anything at this time? Mr. CAVIN. No, sir.

Mr. DRINAN. Thank you very much.

I yield to the distinguished gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Railsback. Mr. RAILSBACK. I just want to thank you for coming and for giving us the benefit of your organization's feelings.

Do I understand that your organization would take the same position on conditional amnesty as it does on absolute amnesty? Mr. DARLING. Most assuredly.

Mr. RAILSBACK. Thank you.

Mr. DRINAN. I am pleased to yield to the distinguished gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Sandman.

And I am glad to see that our chairman, Mr. Kastenmeier, is present. I will yield the chair to him in a moment.

Mr. KASTEN MEIER. I would ask the gentleman from Massachusetts to retain the chair. It has been part of my policy to encourage other members to participate in presiding.

I would like to extend a warm welcome to our witnesses. I appreciate their views. I am pleased that you could come here on behalf of your constituency bodies.

Mr. DRINAN. I have just one question.

What was the motivation for taking up the question of amnesty at your last convention?

And second, was there any dissent from the statement that was adopted?

Mr. CAVIN. None whatsoever. It was unanimous by the delegates at the national convention.

Mr. DRINAN. Is this the first statement that you have made on amnesty?

Mr. CAVIN. No, sir. There was one made a year ago, the year previous to this in August 1971.

Mr. DRINAN. All right, fine.

We thank you very much for coming and we will make this a part of the record.

Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. DARLING. Thank you.

Mr. DRINAN. Our next witness this afternoon will be Mr. Abe Simon of New York.

Mr. Simon's son was invited to appear before this committee today. He was a member of the U.S. Armed Forces who deserted in 1968 and lived in Sweden for 4 years, and thereafter in Canada. Mr. Lewis Simon returned to this country late last year and surrendered to the Federal authorities at that time.

The subcommittee felt that Mr. Lewis Simon was uniquely qualified to testify on the application of this legislation to those living in exile, and for that reason the subcommittee wrote to the Secretary of Defense on February 28 and asked that the Secretary make the proper arrangements for Mr. Lewis Simon to appear as a witness before us today.

On March 4, the Acting General Counsel of the Department of Defense replied to the committee, stating that "In view of his status, and the potential for prejudicing his subsequent trial, it would be inappropriate for the Department of Defense to arrange for his appearance."

Copies of that correspondence will be inserted into the record without objection at this point.

[The documents referred to follow:]

Hon. JAMES R. SCHLESINGER,

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES,
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Washington, D.C., February 28, 1974.

Secretary of Defense, Department of Defense,
Washington, D.C.

MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: The Subcommittee on Courts, Civil Liberties, and the Administration of Justice of the House Committee on the Judiciary has scheduled hearings on March 7, 8, and 11, 1974, on pending legislation relating

to the subject of amnesty. The measures involved are H.R. 236, H.R. 674, H.R. 2167, H.R. 3100, H.R. 5195, H.R. 10979, H.R. 10980, H.R. 13001, H. Con. Res. 144, and H. Con. Res. 385.

Among the people who would be affected by the passage of any of these measures are American exiles living abroad. One of the witnesses suggested to this Committee is a young man who could make a significant contribution to the debate on these measures. He is Private Lewis H. Simon, 125-36-8208. Mr. Simon deserted from the U.S. Army and lived as an exile in Sweden for many years. He subsequently visited with many groups of exiles in Canada and Europe and may be uniquely qualified to represent the views of American exiles toward this legislation.

This Committee would like to receive the testimony of Mr. Simon on Monday, March 11 at 10:00 a.m. At the present time he is confined at the Fort Dix Area Confinement Facility at Fort Dix, New Jersey, awaiting trial on charges of desertion. Would you please have the proper arrangements made so that Mr. Simon may present oral testimony to the Committee on that date respecting this pending legislation.

Sincerely yours,

ROBERT W. KASTEN MEIER, Chairman, Subcommittee on Courts, Civil Liberties, and the Administration of Justice.

GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, Washington, D.C., March 4, 1974. Hon. ROBERT W. KASTEN MEIER, Chairman, Subcommittee on Courts, Civil Liberties, and the Administration of Justice, Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: The Secretary of Defense has asked that I reply to your letter of February 28 requesting that Private Lewis H. Simon appear before your Subcommittee. As you noted, Private Simon is now in confinement and awaiting trial. In view of his status, and the potential for prejudicing his subsequent trial, it would be inappropriate for the Department of Defense to arrange for his appearance, in response to your invitation.

Sincerely yours,

L. NIEDERLEHNER, Acting General Counsel.

Mr. DRINAN. We regret that Mr. Lewis Simon cannot testify before us this afternoon. In his place, we nonetheless are pleased and privileged to receive the testimony of his father, Mr. Abe Simon, who is here.

Mr. Simon, would you please proceed?

TESTIMONY OF ABE SIMON ON BEHALF OF LEWIS SIMON, ACCOMPANIED BY TOD ENSIGN, COUNSEL FOR LEWIS SIMON

Mr. ENSIGN. If I may, my name is Thomas Ensign. I am an attorney for Lewis Simon and work with the Safe Return Amnesty Committee. I would like to make a brief statement about the case because we are quite concerned about the military's position, and we want to really clarify what we see to be the true state of affairs.

The pretense of the military that they have been concerned with defending Lewis' constitutional rights, his right to a fair trial, is just that. We regret it. We want to place in the record the fact that since Lewis Simon has been confined pending trial at Fort Dix, he has been placed in solitary confinement on three occasions. He is in soli

tary confinement right now. Access to defense counsel, defense clerks, and other legal assistance has been refused on several occasions. We have an investigation pending with General Pruitt at this time, and I think it is just unconscionable at this time that the Pentagon can posture itself as being concerned about this young man's rights or possible prejudice which might stem from his testimony today.

In listening this morning to some of the others and the statements of the former Secretary of the Army particularly, it more than ever makes me anxious to hear the testimony of men like Lewis Simon. To have Secretary Froehlke sit here and tell us that the war in Vietnam is somehow to be forgotten, that the things which motivated thousands of men like Lewis to leave, to resist at great possible cost, should be forgotten and to tell them this is nothing, this is to be forgotten and we must move forward and reconcile our country, is an outrage, and I only wish that Lewis could be here today to confront this kind of reasoning directly.

Abe would like to make a statement from Lewis, which he would have given had he been here.

Mr. DRINAN. One question. His being in solitary at this moment is not related to this committee's investigation?

Mr. ENSIGN. I do not have the information to answer that with any conclusionary evidence. I think the pattern of the past few weeks has shown that Lewis' position about the war, his talking to the other men in the stockade, has been the source of the harassment.

Mr. DRINAN. Thank you.

At this point before you begin, Mr. Simon, I will announce the rule for the entire afternoon. We hope that all witnesses will keep their statements substantially under 15 mintues, because we do have nine witnesses scheduled for this afternoon.

Mr. Simon, you may if you so desire place your statement in the record at this point and speak to us about the point you wish to bring up. Will you proceed?

Mr. SIMON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am here in the dual role as a father of Lewis Simon and also as a spokesman for him because, as you know, he has been denied the right to speak. Of course, I am deeply involved personally with him. I try to be completely objective and try to see the viewpoint of various other organizations.

One thing struck me very hard, and that was the statement by the Noncommissioned Officers Association that if they are 18 and old enough to vote, they are old enough to fight. You might as well say they are old enough to think, also. And these boys have thought this thing out. They have devoted years contemplating what the effect of their actions would be.

I believe that it took more courage to do what they did than to submit to what they thought was not proper.

And before I read Lewis' letter, if I may. I would like to explain my own viewpoint. I, too, have served more than 3 years in European operations.

When Lewis first deserted, my mind was completely military and similar to those who spoke before we did. Not until years later, not until 2 or 3 years later, did I realize that what these boys did, they did with the full conviction that what they did was right. They knew and felt that this was an immoral war.

I can give you examples of my own son. I am deeply involved with him. He was stationed at Fort Jones, a member of the Army Security Agency, and he was cleared for operation with the Army Security Agency. And when he did desert-and I think that was an important point-that was a great blow to the Army, and that is one of the reasons he is being harassed now. And he is being harassed in the stockade. Almost any insignificant detail, the slightest violation of any regulation, immediately imposes a deep sentence upon him. He is immediately thrown into the hole, into segregation. He is being made an example.

There is no justice in this, at all, in my opinion. And I will take another moment just before I read his statement.

I also feel that through his efforts we here back home fully realize what has gone on. Over the years, we all went along minding our own business, doing our own jobs. Only through the efforts of these boys, by their acts, did we realize what had been going on with the Pentagon papers, which revealed it. The shabby 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution was revealed, and I think all these things have backed these boys up.

I will now proceed with his statement, if I may.

Mr. DRINAN. Go ahead.

Mr. SIMON. This is the statement of Pvt. Lewis Simon. He is at present in the stockade at Fort Dix awaiting court-martial, which will be held next week, March 18.

"I would like very much to have appeared in person before you today, but the Defense Department prevents me from doing so. After three months of pretrial imprisonment in the Fort Dix Stockadebeing subjected to threats and intimidation, forced solitary confinement, and being denied the due process of law-it did not surpise me that the Pentagon refused Chairman Kastenmeier's request that they release me to appear before your Subcommittee today.

"While members of Congress and officials from the Pentagon discuss various amnesty proposals, it should not be forgotten that, at the same time, the military continues to hunt, imprison, and permanently stigmatize thousands of us who refused duty in Vietnam. This continued persecution is the military's response to amnesty, just as their denial of my right to testify here today-out of a phoney concern about possible 'prejudice' so my case-is in itself an eloquent statement as to their views of the issue."

Again, quoting Lewis:

"Next week I will be court-martialed. Like all those before me who have passed through the military system of justice, the result of my trial has already been assured: I will be found guilty' as charged, imprisoned, and eventually given a debilitating less-than-honorable discharge."

He asks, "Why?"

The answer is simple: "Because I am one of the half-million ordinary American GI's who dared to challenge U.S. policies in Indochinapolicies which have destroyed the land and peoples of Southeast Asia and have claimed the lives of 53,000 young men like myself.