councils themselves? The county councils ought to be the employers in these contracts, and not give the work out. MR. KILBRIDE: I cannot myself exactly see what difference exists between a contract for breaking stones and a contract for supplying bricks. Nobody denies that the abuses mentioned by the honourable Member exist, and the question is, how are these abuses to be prevented, excepting by some enactment which will penalise those persons guilty of them. A man who is desirous of getting a contract does not depend upon his own tender. He gets two or three friends to tender as well as himself, and then he either assiduously remains in court or skips out of it as it suits him. If the Amendment of the honourable Member for Cork is not accepted, the same sort of thing will continue to exist. I shall certainly support the honourable Member for Cork if he goes to a Division. MR. ATKINSON: A corporation may construct works, and so may sanitary authorities and boards of guardians, hence they are not bound to take the lowest tender, but the grand jury are bound to accept the lowest tender, but every precaution that can be taken is taken to see that the offer shall be a bona fide one, and that proper security shall be given. Everybody who has had any experience of the way in which these things are done in Ireland, knows that the compulsory acceptance of the lowest tender has by no means given general satisfaction. Question put. Amendment negatived. "Page 36, line 17, after 'juries,' insert"(3) A county council may with respect to any public work, the expenses of which are chargeable partly or wholly to the administrative county, or upon the recommendation of the council of the district with respect to any public work, the expenses of which are chargeable wholly to a county district, execute such work without the intervention of a contractor, Mr. Field. and the Act of the twentieth and twenty-first years of the reign of Queen Victoria, chapter fifteen, shall in such case apply with the necessary modifications.””—(Mr. Shee.) MR. SHEE (Waterford, W.) said that the Amendment would give the Irish county councils the same power as the English ones possessed. It was, he said, a very important Amendment so far as the work of the Irish county councils was concerned. He had expert testimony in favour of his Amendment, and evidence of two county surveyors who he proceeded to read to the House the favoured his contention, and which testimony was practically endorsed by all the county surveyors of Ireland. MR. GERALD BALFOUR: This is a matter in which the opinions of county surveyors should certainly weigh on the House. But as a matter of general principle, are we prepared to allow the county councils to have control of their own work? I think that the proposal to allow the road work to be put out to contract meets with the general approval of Ireland. MR. DALY: I am very much obliged to the right honourable Gentleman, and I hope he is not going to accept this Amendment. I am sure that, while the right honourable Gentleman is doing his best, he is not able to please everybody. If the county councils take over the whole of the roads, that would cause a great deal of increased cost. If the county councils only make the surveyors do their duty, the roads will be kept in good repair. Of course, if after a while the county councils think that they can mend the roads better than by contract by all means let them do it. MR. DILLON: No one can deny the zeal with which the honourable Member has advocated this proposal, but in spite of that zeal, I must confess that the pursuit of economy in some cases leads to waste of money. For instance, with regard to the county surveyor, I am in favour of high salaries, because if you want skilled work done properly, you must be prepared to pay for it. I think that the extreme measure that, without notice,. without any inquiry, without consultashould be forced upon these county tion with any authorities, this system boroughs. honourable Member by this Amendment system is applied to the county boroughs. has raised a very important question, and only? Because the corporations have I confess that, for my part, I cannot see been maintaining their roads for I do why the county councils should not have not know how many years, time out of the option. They will have quite enough mind. It seems to me to be a very to do without being called upon to do their own work and employ their own labour. After all, all that the Amendment would do would be to allow any county council who felt inclined to try the experiment to try the two systems; and the ratepayers, who were the best judges, will soon see the result. If this Amendment were passed the way it would work would be this, that certain county councils would take a certain portion of the roads and employ labour, and we can be perfectly certain that if it increased the burdens of the ratepayers it would soon be put a stop to. I think it would be a reasonable thing for the experiment to be tried, and I am therefore in favour of the Amendment. MR. FIELD: The experiment has been tried, and what has been the result? Why, that the ratepayers desire to go back to the old system, because the contractor has not given satisfaction, and the roads have fallen into a state of disrepair, and they want the old system so as to get the roads into proper order and repair. MR. M. HEALY: I do think there is something to be said for permitting county councils, in the case of main roads, to take the roads into their own hands and maintain them. May I ask the Government whether it was by a deliberate intention that this contract Thirty or forty years ago the Cork Corporation had transferred to them the power of maintaining their roads, and they have ever since maintained them, and now, in the year 1898, they are compelled to adopt, for the first time, this contract system, whilst other authorities in Ireland are permitted to do as they please in the matter. I cannot believe that the Government have made this proposal with a full consideration of all its bearings, and I am really at a loss to understand what the draftsman had in his head when he drew it up. MR. ATKINSON: It was done in order to put the county boroughs in the same position as the ordinary boroughs. MR. CREAN: This would be better for the ratepayers, because they would have greater facilities than they now have in various directions. I hope the right honourable Gentleman will re-establish the power of county boards. to execute their own works if they think it necessary. Question put "That those words be there inserted." The Committee divided:-Ayes 28; Noes 111.-(Division List No. 119.) Billson, Alfred Hammond, John (Carlow) AYES. Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport)> FOR THE AYES- Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. Arnold, Alfred Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. Dane, Richard M. NOES. Folkestone, Viscount Goldsworthy, Major-General Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. W. Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord A. (Down) Kenyon-Slaney, Col. Wm. Lawrence, Sir E. (Cornwall) Committee report Progress; to sit again this day. House resumed. MR. GLADSTONE'S FUNERAL. OF THE EX CHEQUER reported from the Select Committee appointed to consider the circumstances relating to the attendance of this House at the funeral of the late right honourable William Ewart Gladstone on 28th May; That they had considered the matter to them referred, and had agreed to the following Report: : Your Committee are informed that the Earl Marshal has arranged to provide places in the South Transept of Westminster Abbey for Members desiring to attend the funeral of Mr. Gladstone on 28th May. Your Committee recommend that Members should attend in mourning dress; that each Member should be admitted by ticket; and that Members desiring Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) places should send in their names to Mr. Speaker's Secretary by 7 p.m. on Wednesday, 25th May. That provision should be made in the front seats for Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of Ways and Means, Ministers, ex-Ministers, and Privy Councillors; and that officers should attend at the entrance of the Abbey and inside, to prevent unauthorised persons entering the seats reserved for the use of Members. bers attending should assemble in the They further recommend that Mem House an hour before the time fixed for the funeral; and that Mr. Speaker do make such provision as may appear to him necessary for the orderly arrangement of the procession of Members to the Abbey. That the Clerks and Officers of the House, not exceeding 35 in number, shall be permitted to accompany the Members of the House, and have tickets issued to them accordingly. Report to lie upon the Table. House adjourned at 3.40. PLYMOUTH AND STONEHOUSE GAS BILL. CROMER GAS BILL. As amended, considered; to be read Table, and to be printed. the third time. Reported; Report to lie upon the Reported; Report to lie upon the made by the Secretary for Scotland, Table, and to be printed. PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS. METROPOLITAN POLICE PROVISIONAI ORDER BILL. Read the third time, and passed. LAND DRAINAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER (HACCONBY FEN) BILL. Read a second time, and committed. " under Part I. of The Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1890, relating to the City and Royal Burgh of Edinburgh, ordered to be brought in by the Lord Advocate and Mr. Anstruther. Presented accordingly, and read the first time; Referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill No. 233.] LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL. Reported, without Amendment [Provisional Orders confirmed]; Report to lie upon the Table; Bill to be read a third time upon Monday, 6th June. |