to

he must know already that increased | ought to have given some special reasons length, having regard to the position for constructing this particular dry dock where this dry dock was being made, which was cost something like would involve a large increase of expendi- £300,000. These were very grave omisture, because at the place chosen by the sions from the list of works for which Government there was a very high rock. provision was to be made. There was But there were other matters in con- the omission of such important works as nection with Gibraltar to which the those at Dover and Hong Kong, and attention of the House ought to have there was no mention of improvements been drawn before it was asked to pass in ports in the Far East of the Mediterrathis Bill. The measure had been sub- nean. Two months ago in this House, mitted to the House without any explana- the Chancellor of the Exchequer delition of the principles involved. On the vered a speech foreshadowing an intenfinancial principles not a word was said tion to give up our hold on the Eastern by the Government until the Chancellor Mediterranean. He knew that the right of the Exchequer was forced to reply hon. Gentleman afterwards took the first this evening to the criticisms of the noble available opportunity to withdraw that Lord, the late First Lord of the Ad- speech, and he was, therefore, surprised miralty. He wanted to know what was to find that no mention was made in to be the depth of water enclosed by the these works estimates of any works in new flying breakwater and the extension the Eastern Mediterranean, where a very of the new mole. The depth of the water small expenditure would provide us at was a very important matter, and no all events with a secure harbour for our information had been given them on Fleet in sight of Famagusta. He knew the point. When the extension of the that some people who did not realise new mole was talked of, he wished to the dangers of their proposal, thought know whether, with that extension, that our best policy would be to facilities were to be provided for the abandon the Mediterranean. But coaling of steamers. Were facilities for if, from pusillanimous advice, we coaling to be provided in connection with should be induced to withdraw from the new flying extension that was to be the Mediterranean, what hold had we on made, or was it to be merely a new the Atlantic? He could state on the breakwater? Then, had the Government highest Naval authority, and from his considered the alternative schemes that own personal observation, that we did had been before them for the past 10 not possess a properly-equipped Naval years? Had they considered the canal base between Devonport and Cape Town, scheme, and the scheme relating to the and if war broke out there would not be eastern face of the rock? [Mr. E. a single port where coal and stores ROBERTSON "It has been all answered could be replenished or ships repaired already."] These points had not been over that very nearly 7,000 miles of all answered. [Mr. E. ROBERTSON: "I Atlantic Ocean, the only remaining referred to the portion of the eastern side route to our great Possessions in South of the rock."] The hon. Member had Africa, to Australia, to India, and the made an observation which would lead Far East. The House would appreciate the House to suppose that all these ques- the importance of this statement when tions had been answered, whereas they he said that the modern battleship only had not been all answered. The canal carried coal sufficient for three weeks' scheme had not even been referred to by effective cruising, and no such vessel the Government speakers. The Govern- could proceed 3,000 miles for effective ment knew very well that in adopting service unless it could have recourse to the scheme for a dry dock in the parade a reliable coaling base. He regarded ground, as it was called, they were this as a neglect of Imperial and Naval adopting a scheme which was very ex- interests. The works set out in this pensive, which was incapable of future Bill had never been properly explained expansion, and which could only provide to the country, and he believed that not one dock. He thought that the Govern- only experts, but the general public, ment ought to have told them something would not feel much confidence in what about those other schemes which were the Government were about to do from not open to the same objections, and the explanations they had offered to the

House that night. As to the financial unless they were continued, be absoprinciples of the Bill, his noble Friend lutely thrown away. He thought it

on 11 different items might all be spent upon one item. He contended that that was a breach of their best financial traditions, and there were other matters in the Bill which would also require their close scrutiny in Committee. On the whole he wished to congratu late the Government on having boldly followed in the steps of their prede cessors so far as they dared. He could only regard the Bill, however, as a halfhearted, halting, and inadequate attempt on the part of the Government to follow in the wise financial course pursued by their predecessors.

the late First Lord made a speech in would have been more practical and businesslike if the Government had which he advanced four criticisms on the explained to them that these various Bill, and the effort which the Chanworks would cost so much money. He cellor of the Exchequer made to answer found that they provided for a million them only showed how weak was the sterling of expenditure, leaving the case of the Government in regard to this country saddled with a further expenpart of the measure. The Chancellor of diture of five millions and a half, if the the Exchequer advanced several conten- first expenditure was to have any effect tions which appeared to him to be con- at all. It was a great pity that the tradictory in themselves and of one whole matter could not have been disanother. The right hon. Gentleman cussed at greater length. In one of the said it was not a sound policy to allow classes the Admiralty was enabled to finance in Naval and Military matters transfer from one head to another in to be subject to the control of the House the schedule, without the control or of Lords, and in almost the same breath approval of the House, large sums of he said the only sound policy was to money. The consequence was, that the introduce an annual Bill for this pur- million which it was proposed to spend pose. If that meant anything, it meant that annually they were to put their Naval policy, in the words of the right hon. Gentleman, at the mercy of the House of Lords. That was one contradiction. Then the right hon. Gentleman said it was a mistake to suppose that a loan would be appealed to as a financial measure on the plea of urgency. The only legitimate justification for a loan, he said, was because the money was intended for permanent works; but his main financial principle was that the needs of the year must be got out of the funds of the year. Here was a Bill which professed to be a Loan Bill, because it was for permanent works, and yet in its very principle it was to be an annual Bill to take the money of the year for the work of the year in order to pay for permanent works which ought to be paid for by a permanent loan. The noble Lord argued that there ought to be a time limit in any expenditure of this kind, but he had not heard from any Member of the Treasury Bench why there should not be a time limit, and he thought his noble friend who had made this criticism deserved a substantial reply on that point. Then the right hon. Gentleman had told them that it was no use taking the total cost, because they must from year to year provide funds for the work which was to go on. But if they were in any way to charge posterity with the continuance of these works they left it to posterity to say that the works might be stopped at any moment. The money spent upon these works would,

Sir G. Baden-Powell.

MR. W. E. M. TOMLINSON (Preston) said, the view he took might be put in the form of an analogy. In a Committee of the House dealing with a project brought forward by a private adventurer, a statement of the whole expenditure required had to be given, and the private adventurer was expected to take powers to incur that whole expenditure; if he did not the Committee was not likely to pass the Bill. The House ought to have the whole scheme before it, so that the details might be discussed. The result of the mode of dealing which the Government had adopted was, that the House could only imperfectly consider the schemes under which the money was proposed to be lent. When they came another year and offered any criticisms upon the scheme, they would, he supposed, be told that they sanctioned the scheme because they sanctioned the expenditure for the first part. As guardians of the public

purse they were bound to protest England, where most of the money against this method of dealing with would have to be found, and the labour public funds. market was sorely in need of employment.

improved by the construction of a ship canal from the east coast to the west, which would enable us to transfer our naval force from one to the other as circumstances might render necessary. Above all things, let us employ labour at home, and spend money at home, and so improve the condition of our own working classes; and this the construction of the suggested canal would do.

where it is proposed to spend so large a sum for two docks. The Secretary of the Admiralty having, in reply to a question on the subject, admitted that a large floating derelict had been swept through the Straits of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean from the Atlantic Ocean, the Government would be seriously compromised if so great a danger were not captured or destroyed.

MR. WILSON LLOYD (Wednes- The defence of this country might be bury) said, the schedule of the proposed expenditure was very meagre. He agreed that the House ought to have more complete information before it. He wished to ask why it was that in this scheme so large a proportion of the money was to be spent outside England. They were told-and they all knew it that England was "the predominant partner" of the United Kingdom. Yet under this scheme England, which found MR. J. C. MACDONA (Southwark, a great part of the money, would not have Rotherhithe) urged that, however much the benefit of the expenditure of the money might be spent upon dock accommoney in this country. From the point modation for our shipping at Gibraltar of view of popularity, he should have and elsewhere, it would be of little use thought the Government would have if ships never arrived to be docked. spent the money in the country in which Amongst the many dangers to which they desired popularity. But what did shipping was exposed, perhaps the the House find? They found that the greatest was the danger of running upon first item of expenditure in the schedule a derelict. This danger has only recently was to be spent outside the United been reported as close to Gibraltar, Kingdom-at Gibraltar: £275,000, more than a quarter of the whole sum, was to be spent in Gibraltar. Surely the Government must know the depressed state of the labour market in England at the present time. It had been said and even promised that we were to give up Gibraltar. A time might come when we should give it up as a naval station. He hoped not, for he should deplore it. But it was often suggested that Gibraltar should be given up. They all knew that, after spending a million of money on important defences and fortifications on the Ionian Islands, those islands were CROFTERS HOLDINGS (SCOTLAND) BILL. given up. The ex-Prime Minister advo- On the resumption of the Adjourned cated the giving up of the Ionian Islands, Debate on the Motion for leave to bring and they were given up after a million in a Bill, it was proposed to postpone the of money had been spent there. How- Order to Monday, the 22nd instant. ever desirable it might be to spend DR. CLARK (Caithness) asked when £275,000 for Gibraltar, the money the Government intended to bring in the should be spent in England. [Ministerial Bill? Cries of "Divide !"] Yes; those cries were their argument. Expenditure for Ireland and Gibraltar, but not for the benefit of the British taxpayer. If a Member on the Opposition side of the MR. T. R. BUCHANAN (AberdeenHouse said, "We want this money shire, E.) protested against the way this spent in England," they cried, "Divide!" Bill was being put off. Scotch Members and thought it out of order. England had been kept waiting on the chance was the predominant partner, and he did of the Order being reached that night, not know why £275,000 should be spent and now they were to be hurried back in Gibraltar, and £250,000 in Ireland, on the Monday that the House releaving less than half to be spent in assembled on the same chance. He

Bill read 2o.

MR. ASQUITH: It would be the second Order on the Monday.

DR. CLARK said, that meant it would be again reached at midnight.

moved that the Bill be put down for the the Government make it a second Order Thursday.

DR. MACGREGOR (Inverness-shire) seconded that Amendment.

MR. ASQUITH said, he hoped the Amendment would not be persisted in. The Government strongly desired to bring in the Bill. As a Scotch Member he was himself interested in it. They were pledged to bring on the Factories Bill immediately after the Recess, and would put this Bill down next.

MR. T. H. COCHRANE (Ayrshire, N.) said, that it would be an inconvenience to him as a Scotch Member to return on the Monday.

MR. W. E. M. TOMLINSON said, it had been usual to take Estimates on the first day after a Recess.

on a Monday or a Thursday before public business, or would they give some information as to the course they intended to pursue? Scotch business was as important as Welsh, Irish, or English business, and the Scotch Members were not going to take the leavings of the Government. MR. J. H. C. HOZIER (Lanarkshire, S.) asked whether the Crofters Bill was in future to have precedence of the Scotch Local Government Bill.

MR. T. R. BUCHANAN earnestly joined in the appeal made by the hon. Member for Caithness. He hoped the Government would consider, not merely the better progress of Scotch business, but the greater convenience of the Scotch night; and that would be served if the Government could state to-morrow whether the Bill would be taken as the First Order on the Thursday after the House re-assembled.

MR. ASQUITH said, with reference to the question of the hon. Member opposite, the Crofters Bill would be taken before the Scotch Local Government Bill, as the Government regarded it as the first Scotch business of the Session. As to the question of the hon. Member for Caithness, if the Bill to which he referred was, unfortunately, not read on the Monday night after the Adjournment, as the Government hoped that it would be, then it would be taken as the First Order on the following Thursday.

The House adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve o'clock.

ON the conclusion of the Sitting, Mr.
Asquith, and other occupants of the
Front Benches, took leave of Mr. Speaker
by shaking hands with him. As Mr.
Speaker was leaving the Chair a cheer

On Motion for the Adjournment of the was raised throughout the House, to House,

which the right hon. Gentleman bowed his acknowledgments. During the discussion on the Naval Works Bill, the attendance of Members was comparatively small, but throughout the evening a constant succession of Members took leave of Mr. Speaker while he occupied the

DR. CLARK asked the Government what they intended to do with reference to the Crofters Bill for Scotland. The Scotch Members were being brought down night after night for this Bill, and it was always being postponed. Would Chair for the last time. Mr. T. R. Buchanan.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, 10th April 1895.

At noon, when the only business before the House was the election of a new SPEAKER, in succession to Mr. PEEL, the Chamber was crowded in every part.

THE ELECTION OF SPEAKER.

THE SERJEANT-AT-ARMS (Mr. H. D. ERSKINE) came, and brought the Mace, and laid it under the Table.

*THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir W. HARCOURT, Derby), addressing himself to the Clerk of the House (who, standing up, pointed to him, and then sat down) said: Sir Reginald Palgrave,-I have it in command from Her Majesty to acquaint this House that the Queen, having been informed of the resignation of the Right Honourable ARTHUR WELLESLEY PEEL, late Speaker of the House of Commons, gives leave to the House to proceed forthwith to the choice of the new Speaker.

of those who form a majority of this House is to be questioned. ["Hear, hear!"] I regret it for this reason-that it has always seemed to me-and, indeed, upon high authority, it has often been stated— that the unanimous voice of the House lends authority to the Chair. [Cheers.] On that ground alone I regret that a contest is likely to take place. But whoever is selected we can remember that the choice is the choice of the House; and I do not doubt that that choice will be followed by a full measure of that confidence and support which we owe to our Speaker. [Cheers.] It has been said, and well said, that in electing a Speaker of this House we appoint not a master, but a servant, of the House. True, but a trusted and honoured servant, to whose hands we commit great powers, whom we charge with grave responsibilities; and, indeed, it seems to me that it would be a base and lamentable failure on our part if, having thus made him our Minister, we withheld from him a full measure of that loyal Confidence which alone is the source of, and alone can maintain, his authority. [Cheers.] I have no fear myself that we shall in any way fail in our duty in that respect. This is not a new Parliament. We have had experience of its ways ; and I think that ready submission to our Speaker, that instant rally in support of the Chair, to which we are accustomed is not a mere habit of obedience. It is with us who have been here any time an instinct of self-preservation [Cheers]because we know and we realise all too ["Hear, hear!"] To a House of Com- well that, without the support of our mons that has had the experience which Speaker, the conduct of public affairs in the present House has now acquired, I Parliament would be impossible. But, think it is needless that I should take up hearing that there is to be a contest on time in endeavouring to sketch the quali- this occasion, it becomes necessary that ties and the gifts which we expect in I should ask myself what are the objecour Speaker. That was done last night tions which are to be raised to my hon. in admirable terms by the Leader of the Friend. Possibly it may be said that he House. [Cheers.] I may at once say has not that long experience of Parliathat I think the example which this ment which some would desire. [OppoHouse has had before it of the daily sition Cheers.] It will be said, perhaps, exercise of the highest qualities which that some one ought to have been can adorn that Chair has impressed upon selected who had greater knowledge of all of us a sense of what gifts are re- the practice of Parliament. [Opposition quired, what qualities are demanded, Cheers.] Let us go back a little. Let better than any words. [Cheers.] I us go back to the last occasion upon regret to learn that, upon this occasion, which there was a contest in this House that practice which has now happily en- for a Speaker. That was in 1839, when dured for more than half-a-century is Mr. Shaw Lefevre was proposed, and likely to be broken, and that the selection exactly the same objection was raised to VOL. XXXII. [FOURTH SERIES.]

MR. SAMUEL WHITBREAD (South Beds), who was received with cheers, said: I rise for the purpose of proposing

"That Mr. William Court Gully, Member for Carlisle, take the Chair of this House as Speaker."

3 H