had been proved to be utterly inadequate taken possession of by an aged crippled for the purpose in view; and in support man of, he was sorry to say, very of that contention he quoted descriptions irregular habits. This man was per

of the state of things in certain districts mitted to live in the shanty, and the of Scotland, which were very deplorable.

In the part of Scotland with which he sanitary authorities condemned it as unwas best acquainted, he was glad to say fit for human habitation. Nobody disthat the bothie system did not prevail. puted that, and least of all himself. It It had been given up long ago, and the was, accordingly, pulled down. But sooner it was given up in other parts of what was the end of the old man? He Scotland the better. But he thought was taken to the workhouse, and within the houses described by the hon. Member six months he was dead, his death being were fit subjects for the Act of 1890. Was generally attributed to his having to give there any medical officer who would up his free and easy and somewhat disrepass as fit for human habitation houses in which, according to the hon. Member, the labourers had to lie on the floor, looking out at the stars through the broken roof, through which the water also poured when it rained?

*MR. SEYMOUR KEAY said, the difficulty was, that the absence of power to compel repair and the erection of new dwellings, restrained the medical officers from condemning existing dwellings even when unfit for human habitation.

putable style of life. Even now the sanitary authorities had considerable powers under the existing Acts. He found that in the County of Renfrew, last year, no fewer than 40 dwellings were pulled down, having been condemned as unfit for human habitation. So, although he was prepared to admit that the words of the Act of 1890 were somewhat rigid and ought to be made more elastic so as to put an end to houses not dangerous to, but unsuitable for human life, still he *SIR HERBERT MAXWELL thought said that if the present Act was adminthe hon. Member showed his want of istered with a little more spirit and diliacquaintance with agricultural matters gence by the local authorities, landlords in putting forward such an objection. would be stimulated to take prompter Everyone who knew anything about means for improving the state of matters. agricultural land knew that farms could He ventured to say that few hon. Memnot be worked without dwellings for the bers would corroborate the picture that labourers, and if the dwellings were had been drawn by the hon. Member for unfit for human habitation, and were Elgin and Nairn. He did not deny that pulled down, they must be replaced by in some districts, especially those vergothers, or the lands could not be worked, ing on the Highlands, there were dwelBesides, the tenant had his remedy lings which it was deplorable to see in against the landlord. ["No, no!"] any civilised land. But it was also the There were very few landlords, indeed, case that these dwellings were steadily who would hesitate for a moment to re- disappearing. This improvement could place a building that had been con- not be effected in a single year, and the demned by the sanitary authorities. In landlord had often difficulties to some cases, he admitted, the building counter in the matter. As an instance was not replaced. The hon. Member for of this he mentioned that two years ago Elgin and Nairn said that the powers of he visited three labourers cottages on the Medical Officer were not sufficient at his own property, which he had built the present time. He must come before about seventeen years ago, and while two the hon. Member in a white sheet. Two of them were now in a perfect state of years ago, on his own property in Scot- repair the occupant of the third had land, a cottage was condemned by the by neglect allowed it to become so local authority. But what was that dilapidated and so filthy that had cottage? It was extremely interesting it stood alone many a man would from an antiquarian point of view as a have said it was unfit for human relic of a past state of things altogether, habitation. It must not be forgotten and the ancient dwelling had been that, while undoubtedly there were allowed to stand for generations by the duties incumbent upon the landlords, roadside. It was a dwelling for which and very heavy responsibilities for he, as landlord, got no rent; it was making this provision, there were also not included in any farm, but had been duties incumbent upon the tenants and Sir Herbert Maxwell.

en

labourers in order to take advantage of undoubtedly been in many parts a great

this provision and maintain their dwellings in suitable repair. He trusted the Lord Advocate would express some opinion upon the merits of this measure as compared with the suggestion he had ventured to lay before the House as to amending the original Act.

improvement, but at the same time no one who knew Scotland would say there was not room and necessity for a great improvement in many other places, and on many estates. And so without going into the question as to how far there was a necessity all over the country *THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. J. B. or over all estates for such a measure, BALFOUR, Clackmannan and Kinross) he thought they should be agreed that it remarked that they were, of course, only was not a superfluity to demand, in the now on the Second Reading, and were case of agricultural labourers' cottages, not considering whether every clause of some safeguards of the kind proposed the Bill was so worded as not to admit by the Bill. It had been askedof amendment. He might say at the Why deal differently with agricultural outset that the objections taken to the labourers dwellings from others? He Bill were by no means of a consistent should be glad to see the Public Health or harmonious character. They had Act, and other acts amended, but everybeen told in some speeches that there one who had had anything to do with was no need for the Bill, and he rather these Acts was well aware that probably understood the suggestion was that the no class of statutes was so full of contenBill was not required, because there tious matter or so certain to raise conwas no necessity for having the troversies. Wherever they encountered kind of improvements in agricultural medical gentlemen and sanitary inspeclabourers' cottages proposed by it. tors they got into questions of the In the second place it was said there greatest difficulty, and on which there was no need for the Bill because the were the sharpest differences of opinion. existing Acts of Parliament, and par- Successive Governments had long been ticularly the Public Health Act of 1867 looking forward to amending the Public and the Housing of the Working Classes Health Act, but the Amendments required Act of 1890, were adequate to meet the would be so numerous, and the controvercase. But that did not consist with the sies upon some of the subjects so bitter, Amendment which had been moved by that, to accomplish the object in view, his hon. Friend the Member for West must occupy a serious amount of time. Renfrewshire, which was that— But in this Bill there were definite pro

"That this House, whilst recognising the

posals with respect to a particular class of dwellings.

desirability of amending and rendering more What was the position of effective the Public Health (Scotland) Act, the agricultural labourer in most parts 1867, considers it undesirable to legislate on of Scotland as regards his dwelling? this subject without conferring the benefits He had to live beside his work, equally on all classes of the community." either in the farm-steading or near So that the position of those who it, and very often the steading approved of this Bill, as they on the was far from any village or town. Government Bench did, was that they Accordingly he was not in the position were between two fires. The suggestion of a workman who had the choice of his was on the one hand, that the Bill was dwelling. If, therefore, there could be unnecessary; and on the other, that it was special reason for taking up the case of desirable, but that it was too restricted in a class which was homogeneous in itself, its scope, and should be made universal. and which could be dealt with in all He left these arguments to destroy each parts of the country by a similar remedy, other, and he would state very briefly such special reason was established in the views of the Government. Some- regard to agricultural labourers' dwelthing had been said of the condition of lings. It was quite true that under the agricultural labourers' cottages in Scot- 16th Section of the Public Health Act land. That, he should say, was a of 1867, there were important powers varying condition, there being great for dealing with insanitary or even indifference between agricultural labourers' adequate dwellings, but the case had to dwellings in different parts of the country and on different estates. Having known Scotland all his life, he said there had

be proved under the name of a nuisance, which threw a very heavy onus upon the prosecuting party. Again, the words

SIR J. FERGUSSON said the only difficulty he had about assenting to the Bill was the speech of the Mover, whose description of the state of the

"dangerous to health" under the Act of decency should be made, and he would 1890 also, it was felt, involved too get the benefit of that at the expiry of heavy a burden of proof. Some legisla- the lease in increased letting value. The tion was wanted which should not go tenant paid his rent for what was let to the length of demanding proof of nuis- him, and the hypothesis of improvements ance or danger to health if the dwelling being added must be that the houses let was disadvantageous to or unsuitable for were not fit or suitable for the occupahuman habitation. Now the Bill proposed tion of the labourers. He hoped the three things, all of them of a positive and House would give a Second Reading to simple character. The first was, that in this moderate and desirable Bill, while the case of houses to be occupied by leaving it open to amendment in agricultural labourers, there should be Committee. sufficient and suitable accommodation. That was the very thing which the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir Herbert Maxwell) desiderated, because it described something short of a nuisance or of being housing of the working classes in the dangerous to health, but still disad- country districts of Scotland was altovantageous or inappropriate for human gether exaggerated, and his condemnahabitation. The second head pro- tion of the manner in which landed provided for the separation of the sexes prietors performed their duties utterly -a provision which was levelled at undeserved. Still, he recognised that it the bothy system. No one who had was very desirable the law should be known Scotland as long as he had, further strengthened in order that could contend that the bothy sys- houses which were unsuitable for the tem had not been a source of moral occupation of decent people should be put mischief, and, although the system was into proper repair. He should be sorry disappearing, it was not so in all cases, to stand in the way of such improvefor sometimes unmarried persons of dif- ments. From that point of view he ferent sexes were still thrown into such ventured to suggest to his hon. Friend proximity that great evil resulted. The third provision was not the least valuable of all, and that was the power to local authorities to make bye-laws relative to what should be required in such dwellings. No one could object to that, because it was in accordance with the whole tendency of modern legislation. Those bye-laws would gradually give a standard to which agricultural labourers' dwellings should come up.

*MR. RENSHAW Varying in every locality?

*MR. J. B. BALFOUR thought they would vary very little, because the value of bye-laws was that they tended to uniformity of standard, though he could conceive differences of local circumstances would make bye-laws suitable for one locality unsuitable for another. There was wanted for the rural districts what in Scotland was called a "Dean of Guild" or Ædile jurisdiction to direct and regulate buildings somewhat similar to that which had long existed with much public advantage in towns. In regard to the position of the landlord, of course it must be at his cost that the improvements required for health and Mr. J. B. Balfour.

the Member for Renfrewshire, than
whom there was no more earnest re-
former, not to press his Amendment, so
that both sides might combine with the
Government in endeavouring to make
this an adequate and proper measure for
the great object in view.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Bill read 2a.

MOTIONS.

SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE (IRELAND)
ACT (1887) AMENDMENT BILL.

On Motion of Mr. Maurice Healy, Bill to amend the Supreme Court of Judicature (Ireland) Act, 1887.

Bill presented, and read the first time; to be read a second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 185.]

FISHERIES ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

On Motion of Mr. Bryce, Bill to amend the Fisheries Acts.

Bill presented, and read the first time; to be read a second time upon Tuesday next, and to be printed. [Bill 186.]

House adjourned at Twenty-five minutes before Six o'clock.

regulation of a common, or confirming any scheme certified by the said Board relating to a Metropolitan common, or confirming any scheme of the Charity Commissioners for England and Wales, shall be read a first time after Tuesday the 7th day of May next.

That no Bill originating in this House confirming any Provisional Order or pro

The following Bills received the Royal visional certificate shall be read a first

time after Tuesday the 7th day of May next:

That no Bill brought from the House of Commons confirming any Provisional Order in pursuance of a report of the Board of Agriculture relating to the enclosure or regulation of a common, or confirming any scheme certified by the said Board relating to a Metropolitan common, or confirming any scheme of the Charity Commissioners for England and Wales, shall be read a second time to after Tuesday the 25th day of June

SHOP HOURS BILL.

of the Bill, but it had been pointed out LORD RIBBLESDALE, in moving to him that other professional men than the Second Reading of the Shop Hours solicitors were unable to obtain their Bill, said the object of the Bill, which charges when they became mortgagees, consisted of one clause only, was to and he could see no reason why the remedy a defect in the Act of 1892. The Bill should not be extended to them 4th Section of that Act directed that also. He did not know whether his

every employer of labour or owner of noble and learned Friend had any objeca shop should put up in a conspicuous tion to this extension of the Bill, which, place on his premises or shop a notice in its title, was not confined to solicitors, stating the hours of labour, but it did but he thought the point was one which not provide any penalty on summary deserved consideration in Committee on conviction for breach or neglect of the the measure. Section. A case was tried in the Queen's Bench in December last, and the necessity of the Bill was then established. The one clause in it provided that on the summary conviction of a person for not posting up the notice referred to a fine of 40s. would be recoverable.

Bill read 2a.

SOLICITORS (IRELAND) BILL. [H.L.] House in Committee (according to order): Bill reported without Amendment; and re-committed to the Standing Committee.

MORTGAGEES' COSTS BILL.

LORD MACNAGHTEN moved the Second Reading of this Bill, remarking that it dealt with a technical point in the law relating to mortgagees, and that its object was to do away with a rule which, he thought, was due to over

LORD MACNAGHTEN said he would confer with his noble and learned Friend on the question, but he might mention that there was this distinction in the matter that provision was made for taxing the cost of solicitors which did not apply to other professional men, and solicitors being officers of the Court, it was more easy to deal with the question of costs in their cases than in those of other persons.

Bill read 2a.

House adjourned at Twenty minutes before Five o'clock.

OF

COMMON S,

Thursday, 28th March 1895.

The House met at Three of the clock.

refinement on the part of Chancery HOUSE Judges. In cases of money raised on mortgages a person, had, of course, to pay the costs of the mortgagee for investigating the title and completing the mortgage; but if the mortgagee happened to be a solicitor the Court declared that he was not to receive any remuneration for his labour. The same rule applied after the mortgage was completed. He thought their Lordships. would agree that the rule was unreasonable; moreover, it was easily evaded; it was rarely put in force unless there was ill-will between the parties, and it Message to attend the Lords Commisled to more expense than it saved. The sioners; the House went, and, being House of Commons thought the rule returned; Mr. SPEAKER reported the should be abolished, and had passed the Royal Assent toBill, and he felt confident their Lordships would take a similar view of the

matter.

COMMISSION.

1.-Consolidated Fund (No. 1) Act,

1895.

2.- Australian Colonies Duties Act,

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, he had no objection to the Second Reading 1895.