Commodore BERTHOLF. All of these are now used on the Florida and Texas coasts. It is sometimes 20 and 30 miles between the stations; far apart, and it became very necessary to keep the coast under surveillance during the war.

Mr. BYRNES. How did you manage to carry on that business before the war?

Commodore BERTHOLF. We did not carry it on.

Mr. BYRNES. Then with cessation of hostilities, do you expect to carry on that work?

Commodore BERTHOLF. It is not an absolute necessity, of course. We can omit the patrol of that portion of the coast in the future as in the past., but it is much better to maintain a patrol, and these cycles can go along the beach at least once a night to see what is happening.

Mr. BYRNES. What is the necessity of patroling it in times of peace?

Commodore BERTHOLF. In order to ascertain if anything happened along the coast. Vessels having no wireless come ashore and can not communicate. We do maintain a patrol all along the coast between stations where the stations are sufficiently close together so that the patrol men may meet. That condition of affairs exists on the Long Island coast and the New Jersey coast, and as far down as just below Hatteras.

Mr. BYRNES. Do you propose to patrol the entire coast from Texas to Florida in that work?

Commodore BERTHOLF. No; there are certain rocky sections of the coast that can not be patrolled, but wherever we do have stations a patrol should go over the coast line at least once during the night or during the day to ascertain if there is anybody in need of help; otherwise there is no means of finding out. That is what the coast is patrolled for.

Mr. BYRNES. How great a necessity has there been heretofore in times of peace for this patrol, what circumstances in peace times made it necessary? Were you unable to make any patrols at all?

Commodore BERTHOLF. We have been, of course, unable to make any patrols where we have 40 miles to cover, or even 20 miles. The length of a patrol which a man may cover by walking along the beach is about 4 miles. He goes 4 miles in one direction and returns the same distance.

Mr. BYRNES. Prior to the war you did not do it?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Not in that section of the coast; not these long distances.

Mr. BYRNES. During the war you have?

Commodore BERTHOLF. We have done it; yes.

Mr. BYRNES. And your desire now is to continue during peace times that patrol you inaugurated during the war?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Exactly.

Mr. BYRNES. If that is done you will need the motor cycles; if it is not done, you will not need them?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is true.

Mr. MONDELL. You desire this language and appropriation for motor cycles only, do you?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is all we have now. I took this wording from other appropriations, particularly the Navy. Of course, we

do use trucks where it is necessary, but those are not passenger-carrying vehicles. We have not anything now along the coast except these motorcycles.

Mr. MONDELL. And all you anticipated securing or using was motorcycles?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is all.

Mr. MONDELL. And the amount you ask for is sufficient to 'keep in operation and repair the cycles you now have? Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir.

Mr. MONDELL. How many did you say?
Commodore BERTHOLF. We have 15 now.

Mr. MONDELL. You think there is considerable advantage in maintaining a regular patrol where the condition of the work is such as to make it possible with a motorcycle?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir; decidedly so.

Mr. BYRNES. You do intend, though, to purchase some in addition to those you have now?

Commodore BERTHOLF. If we find it necessary. These we now have will wear out, of course.

PAY AND ALLOWANCES.

Mr. BYRNES. Under the head of "Pay and allowances," you ask for $5,375,698. Last year you asked for $5,124,835 and received that amount?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. What is the explanation for the increase you now ask for?

Commodore BERTHOLF. The estimate we originally prepared for 1920 was on the war basis, of course. After the armistice was signed, we were directed to revise it, and the estimate which we now submit is $2,340,000 less than we originally submitted. Of course, we had to start on some basis, so we prepared this estimate on the assumption that the proclamation of peace will have been made on or before July 1, 1919.

Mr. MONDELL. What is your present estimate?

Commodore BERTHOLF. It is $5,375,698.

Mr. MONDELL. No, your revised estimate.

Commodore BERTHOLF. I would like to continue the statement a bit further. This present estimate in print, $5,375,698, is in error It should be reduced $43,000 for this reason, that in revising the estimate we omitted to take one item, representing an expense we will not incur. I want to explain it so that the printed estimate may be reduced accordingly.

Mr. BYRNES. Go on.

Commodore BERTHOLF. Last year we were obliged to transfer from the Lake stations to the coast about 330 men during two months when those stations were not in commission. That condition will not exist, of course, in peace times, and in making up this revised statement, based on peace conditions, we forgot that point, and we carried in that estimate those 330 men for two months. We should not have done so, therefore that estimate now should be reduced $42,000.

Mr. BYRNES. Let me ask you this: The estimate of $5,375,698 was prepared before the signing of the armistice?

Commodore BERTHOLF. No, sir; after the signing of the armistice. Mr. BYRNES. Then, that estimate was based upon a return to peace conditions?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is correct.

Mr. BYRNES. Then, you propose, on the return to a peace basis to ask for more money than you secured during the war?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is correct. That is just what I was coming to. We made an estimate last year for the current fiscal year for $5,475,835. It will cost for this fiscal year, for this item, $6,608,000, because we have needed more men; things have cost more; and there is under present conditions extra pay for the men, so that our original estimate was considerably more than the estimate now submitted. Now we submit this estimate based on peace conditions, but even under conditions which we assume will begin on July 1, there are two items of expense caused by war which must be continued. The officers of the service are serving now under temporary promotions, and those promotions will cease six months after the declaration of peace. Therefore, we must carry their pay for the first six months of next fiscal year. That is an item of $106,000. We are estimating we will reduce our enlisted force during 1920 as quickly as possible, but we figure it will take us three months to gradually discharge these men and return to normal conditions, and these men must be paid during this reorganization period. That is an item of $204,000, so that this estimate now includes an item of $310,000, which ordinarily would not be needed under peace conditions. That makes the estimate much higher than last year's estimate.

DISCHARGE OF MEN.

Mr. BYRNES. Why will it be necessary to take three months after July 1 to reduce that force?

Commodore BERTHOLF. It will not take three months for all the men, but there are something like 1,800 men to be discharged after the 1st of July, if indeed we are at peace at that time, and we can not discharge them all at once.

Mr. BYRNES. Knowing as we do the possibility of a return to peace conditions, can nothing be done until the day those men are discharged?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes; we are discharging men now as rapidly as we can; but there is, for instance, over at New York to-day 1,400 men which we would not have at all in peace times. It is their particular duty to safeguard New York Harbor in the loading and exportation of munitions. We expected to be able to discharge those men shortly after the armistice, but we find they are busier now than at any time during the war, because many of those munitions are coming back and must be unloaded in New York. At the present time we have 15 vessels in that harbor with explosives on board, and that is more than we had at any one time during the war; so we can not reduce our force as quickly as I thought we could. How long that condition will last, whether it will last after the 1st of July, I do not know; but I expect it will, so I provide in this estimate for the pay of these men for three months. Undoubtedly they will not all stay for three months.

Mr. BYRNES. Those are the only men you propose to reduce, then, those 1,400 in New York?

Commodore BERTHOLF. 1,800 altogether, 1,892 is what we have provided for in these three months.

Mr. BYRNES. What munitions are being returned?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Munitions they shipped from New York. Mr. BYRNES. Being returned in large quantities?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Very large quantities; some have not been unloaded and some have been reloaded.

Mr. BYRNES. Can you not secure some information from the other departments as to how long that will likely continue? Commodore BERTHOLF. No.

Mr. BYRNES. Have you tried to do so?
Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. And they do not know?

Commodore BERTHOLF. They do not know. We hope it will be temporary, and of course it will, but how long that temporary period will last I do not know. It is only a guess.

Mr. BYRNES. Then your ability to reduce this force depends upon how long that shipment of munitions continues?

Commodore BERTHOLF. My guess is we can do it in three months after the first of next July. I may be wrong, but that is what we are figuring on.

Mr. BYRNES. You are basing that guess solely upon the continuance of those shipments of munitions; if that stops, is there any reason why you should not be able to let those men off earlier?

Commodore BERTHOLF. None at all; if that stops, we could cut them off next week.

Mr. BYRNES. That accounts for how many then, for 1,800 men? Commodore BERTHOLF. For 1,892 men.

Mr. BYRNES. You have that 1,892 men in employ at this time? Commodore BERTHOLF. Now, yes; they are not all up at New York, of course. They are all over-in the ships-everywhere.

Mr. BYRNES. How great a sum is that?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is $204,000.

Mr. BYRNES. $204,000 for those men?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, and that is based on the peace rate of pay, because the war rate of pay for the men stops on the declaration of peace.

PAY OF OFFICERS.

There is the other item of $106,000, which we can not get rid of; that is a matter of law, officers' pay which continues six months after peace.

Mr. BYRNES. That is how much?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That is $106,000. If we did not have to provide for that and did not have to pay these men for three months, that estimate could be reduced $310,000.

Mr. BYRNES. That accounts for $310,000, which would bring you down to $5,300,000?

Commodore BERTHOLF. That would bring us down to about $5,000,000.

Mr. BYRNES. That $5,000,000 was based upon a greater increased force than was maintained during the war, was it not?

Commodore BERTHOLF. No, sir; that was based on what we need for peace times.

Mr. BYNES. In peace times you did not have that money, you did not have $5,000,000 for pay and allowances, did you?

Commodore BERTHOLF. No; we had in 1918 $4,000,000, and in 1919 we had $5,124,000 on current appropriation.

Mr. BYRNES. Why can you not return to the peace appropriation of $4,359,000, outside of the two items that you have referred to?

Commodore BERTHOLF. For the simple reason that $5,000,000, which we have just figured out, is the cost of the service under the new conditions, pay and allowances just for that number of men. Mr. BYRNES. Was not it the cost under war conditions?

Commodore BERTHOLF. No, indeed; the cost under war conditions was $6,500,000.

Mr. BYRNES. The additional amount being secured from the Navy Department?

Commodore BERTHOLF. The additional amount being secured from the Navy Department under the law. The total expenses for the first six months of the current fiscal year, has actually cost us $3,265,000 whereas under the appropriation we had only $2,525,000. That appropriation had to be supplemented by the Navy Department. Mr. BYRNES. There was an increase, due to war pay, was there not?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Oh, yes; that is in there, war pay and all. Mr. BYRNES. Have you taken into consideration the reduction by reason of there being no war pay?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir; this estimate is figured on the old pay, which, we will assume, will take effect the 1st of July.

Mr. BYRNES. Last year you stated that one item going to make up your increase was due to the fact that you had retired officers on service during the war?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. That would not be true during peace conditions. Is it not possible to allow for some reduction on that score?

Commodore BERTHOLF. It has already been allowed for. That is not in this estimate.

ADDITIONAL NUMBER OF MEN-ADDITIONAL SHIPS.

(See p. 14.)

Mr. BYRNES. Do you contemplate that you will have in the service. during the next fiscal year, under peace conditions, more men than you had in the last year of peace conditions, and if so, how many men? Commodore BERTHOLF. The last estimate called for 4,897 men; the present estimate is calling for 4,801 men, a reduction of 96. Now, the estimate prior to that called for 4,164 men. We can not return to the number of men we had in 1916 or 1915, because the service has grown. We have more ships.

Mr. BYRNES. How many more ships have you?

Commodore BERTHOLF. We expect to have five more.

Mr. BYRNES. You expect to have five more?

Commodore BERTHOLF. Five more, because five have been appropriated for and bids are now in.

Mr. BYRNES. But you have how many-not your expectations-you have how many in the service at this time?