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that he only gave up a temporal pri- sented from the church of Rome. vilege. As to the other Protestant As to the Catholic states, there were states in Europe, Holland, Denmark, none, great or small, enlightened or Sweden, &c. no Roman Catholic bi- ignorant, which permitted any comshops were permitted to reside ; and munication between their clergy and the inferior Catholic clergy were pro. the see of Rome, except with their hibited from holding any intercourse. own privity; and in all states, with with the see of Rome, except through some inconsiderable exceptions, in the the respective governments of those case of a few sees in Naples, the bistates. “If, therefore, the parliament shops were appointed by the soveconsented to grant the full participa- reigns of the respective countries, and tion in all civil rights to the Catho- not by the Pope. In Spain, where it lics, it would be to try an experiment would be expected there would be the which no state in Europe had ever most superstitious attachment to the made; and when the right honour. see of Rome, any communication beable gentleman (Mr Grattan) spoke tween a clergyman and that see was of this country as the only intolerant punished by deprivation and imprison. state in Europe, he should have also ment in Africa. Even the attornies, added, that if it adopted the course who were the parties in such a transnow recommended, it would be the action, were punished by ten years' only Protestant Government which imprisonment in Africa. The free ever ventured such a trial. In Rus. communication with Rome which the sia, the Catholic bishop was appoint. Catholic clergy were to enjoy in this ed by the Emperor; but it was said country, while the laity possessed all in a work of great authority on the civil rights, was a perfectly novel exquestion, (the Edinburgh Review,) periment. Indeed all countries in that there was less difference between Europe, Catholic as well as Protesthe Greek church and the Catholics tant, had carefully shut out the docthan between Catholics and Protes trines propagated by the court of tants. This was not the fact, as the Rome for its

own power and interest. Greek church differed from the Ro. These tenets, known by the name of mish in all the points at issue between trarısalpine doctrines, were excluded the latter and the Western Reformers, from all Europe, excepting two spots and besides esteemed the Pope and the one was the Vatican, the other his adherents madmen, schismatics. the college of Maynooth. The intoBut notwithstanding this, when the lerance which still prevailed in the Empress of Russia proposed to give Romish church was shewn by the rea stipend to the Catholic Archbishop script of the Pope against that noble of Mohilew, and to appoint that offi. society, which, like the angel in the cer, the proposal was gladly accepted Revelation, bore the gospel through by the see of Rome. A 'regulation the world. He referred also to the which the Pope could accept under a late pamphlet of Dr Gandolphy, in Greek Emperor, he could not object which Protestantism was described as to under a Protestant King of Great a visitation on England, worse than Britain, on any religious principle; pestilence and the sword, and the Bi. and if the objection was merely politic shop of London was represented as cal, he should on that account be more an emissary of the Prince of darkness. disposed to insist on the enforcement. He believed, that in the acts of vio. Thus much as to the states which dis. lence which took place between the

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members of different religions, the otherwise, of appointing any one whom Catholics were uniformly the aggres- he chose, or of leaving

the see vacant. sors.

The Catholic clergy were ready to Mr Yorke would state candidly his enter into a concordat with the Pope, opinion, though it might not be in his by which this right should be given power to satisfy either party. He was up. They were also ready to take most anxious that something should the following oath: “I, A. B., do be done, and considered the freedom most solemnly swear, that I will not of the Pope as affording an opening to effect or connive at the election of any wards it; since no arrangement which man whom I do not believe to be a had not his concurrence could have loyal and faithful subject, and of a any stability, He considered securi- peaceable demeanour and disposition; ties essential, whether by the veto or and that I will not attempt by open otherwise ; but a nomination purely force or by secret fraud, to subvert domestic appeared to him to afford or destroy the constitution, either in very ample security. He should have church or state. Nor will I attack little difficulty in granting the request, any thing as by law established, and if the Catholics of Ireland were like if by any correspondence, or by any those of France or Germany; but he other means, I discover any persons believed them to be the most bigot. endeavouring so to do, I will without ted that now existed. His chief dif- delay make it known to his Majesty's ficulty would be with regard to seats Government.” He considered every in parliament, and efficient offices un. requisite security as thus afforded, der the crown. It was true, he would and earnestly hoped the house would be glad to see the Howards, the Clif- go into the committee. fords, and the Arundels, taking their The motion was zealously opposed seats in our parliament; and the Plun- by Mr Webber, and as zealously supketts and Barnwells from over the ported by Mr Elliot.—Lord Castlewater; but the greater part were of a reagh was deeply sensible of the imdifferent description. He hoped, how. portance of the measure, and was unever, the House would find some willing, by opposing it, to occasion means of consolidating the union of the annual occurrence of such a disthe two countries, and confirming cussion. Any great question hanging them in mutual attachment.

year after year about parliament, was Sir J. Cox Hippisley supported the an evil, especially when religious were motion, and controverted the state- mixed with political considerations.ments of Mr Foster.--Sir H. Parnell It was impossible to contemplate the observed, that Mr Foster had materi- temper recently manifested in Europe, ally mis-stated the fact relative to the without feeling that the former dangers nomination of the bishops. It was by connected with the question were conno means a general practice for bishops siderably diminished, if not wholly reto appoint a coadjutor; it took place moved. There was a period when the only when they were in some manner alliance of the Pope was courted by incapacitated for the duties of their all, and when he had it in his power to office. The practice was for the convulse Europe by his influence. bishops to make up a list of three, Latterly, however, Rome had not in. which was transmitted to the Pope, terfered in political questions. Let who usually chose the first on the list; the House carry its attention back to but he had the full right of acting the treaty of Westphalia, in which the

question of religion formed so leading rence of the Catholics, but otherwise a feature; in which Catholic votes even without that concurrence, and were balancedagainst Protestant votes, would trust to its producing ultimate. and in which the principle of exclusion ly the proper effect. He would exwas carried into effect. What was the pect ample securities both as to oaths, case at present ? When the great po and as to government having some inlitical questions of Europe were last fluence in the nomination of Catholics. discussed, he had never heard the sub. He certainly knew that every objecject of religion mentioned in any of tion on the part of the Pope to such those discussions. In the diversified

an arrangement was now withdrawn. states of Germany, in some of which He conceived that much would be the Protestant religion, and in others done if the crown even received inform the Catholic religion predominated, mation previous to the appointment of the whole body chose equality of reli a bishop. He regretted the word veto gion as the basis of their mutual ar had been used; it was a forbidding rangements. He conceived that con word. Upon the whole, he apprecession had been chiefly prevented by hended nothing but good from the inthe rash and intemperate conduct of troduction of a few Catholic members the Catholics themselves. Though into parliament. Until they had got differing in opinion from Mr Foster, the Catholics among them in that he was much gratified by the informa- House, fighting the battles of the tion his speech contained; but the constitution, as in our wars they had facts disclosed in it led, in his mind, to 80 bravely fought the battles of the an opposite conclusion. He believed

country, he should never be satisfied. that a sound temper would never exist Feeling so strongly, he should be guilin Ireland while religious considerations ty of great baseness were he not to decontinued in that country on their pre. clare it. During a part of his life he sent narrow basis. Never would he had considered it his duty, under existbelieve that any existing danger could ing circumstances, to oppose the claims be aggravated by the introduction in- of the Catholics. But those circumto parliament of a few noble Catholic stances no longer existing, he was peers, or of a few generous.Catholic bound to make an earnest and a solemn commoners. On the contrary, he was appeal to the House in their support. persuaded that they would be the fore. Until the subject should be disposed most to repress any deluded people of of, the legislature would never enjoy their own religious persuasion, who repose, nor should we appear in the might be tempted to disturb the public eyes of Europe and the world as we tranquillity; and the concession of the ought to do--an empire, consolidating Catholic claims would afford them its varied population into one great most powerful means of achieving an mass, actuated by the same interests, object so desirable. It was the unhap- and directing its energies to the same piñess of Ireland under its present cir- objects. cumstances, that the state had not suf. Mr Peel opposed the motion in an ficient talents to maintain itself, and elaborate speech. He was convinced carry it through adverse circumstan- that no scheme could be devised at ces. A connexion with the higher once agreeable to the Catholics and ranks of the Catholic body would af. affording security to the Protestants. ford an aid in that respect which would It was with the deepest regret he conbe invaluable. He would press this fessed himself not included in the nummeasure, if possible, with the concur- ber of those who saw any prospect of

settling the question. He might have contended on the other side that the adopted his opinions on the subject at measure was necessary for the purpose first, without much examination, and of removing anomalies ; but if a bu in case of doubt, he might think the like that of 1813 were passed, the inte presumption was in favour of the exist- consistencies and anomalies would be ing order of things ; but from the si- rendered more oumerous instead of be tuation which he had for some time ing diminished. He denied the assert held in the Irish government, he should tion contained in the bill of 1813, that have considered himself culpable in no it was possible to communicate to Ca slight degree, had he not bestowed tholics the same interest in maintaining much attention to the examination of the constitution ; nature forbade it: a question in which Ireland was so they must always have a distinct intsdeeply concerned ; and had he seen rest, directly opposite to the Protestreason to change his opinion, he hoped ant religion inviolably established at he should have had manliness enough the Revolution. The oath which Cato avow that change. But he avowed tholics were to take on entering the that he had not changed them. He House, denying the interference of the did not wish to revive animosities; Pope, it had been truly observed, was neither did he wish to impute any doc more like a bill of indictment against trines to the Catholics which they them for their previous conduct, or a were willing to disclaim ; but he would sort of confession of early crimes. It ask, what would be the operation of it were fit that they should be admit

.. the Catholic doctrines, in a country ted at all within the walls, how could situated like Ireland, and supposing it be shewn that such an oath ought to the Catholics actuated by the same be administered? The principle of the motives as other men, and by the prin. bill was religious and political equality; ciples of their religion? He did not for yet in carrying this principle into e a moment impute to the aristocracy of fect, it excluded Catholics from the Ireland either disloyalty or disaffec. offices of lord lieutenant and lord tion; but if they were sincere profess- chancellor; so that the measure diors of the Roman Catholic faith, if rectly contradicted the principle on they possessed the feelings and pas- which it was founded. One argument, sions that actuated other men, they not hitherto adverted to, appeared exmust be naturally desirous to see that tremely strong ; England, a Protestant religion re-established in the empire. state, was firmly united to Scotland, It would be recollected, also, that the where the Presbyterian religion was reformation in Ireland was not produ. the religion of the country. Could it ced as in England, by the growing be shewn that happiness had not been hatred of the people to the artifices promoted by the union, notwithstandand machinations of the priests ; and ing this discordance ; and what was to this circumstance formed an additional interfere with the same harmony be. reason for refusing the boon now de tween Protestants and Catholics He manded. It was no answer to these apologized to the House for detaining objections to reply, that only a few it at so much length; but before be Catholics would have seats in parlia-, resumed his seat, he entreated those ment, and that their efforts on that ac who were disposed to favour the mo. count need not be dreaded. Let them tion to pause before they took the first be admitted if it were just and politic, step towards an alteration so radical but not because their influence would and important. It was remarked by be trifling or insignificant. It was Hume, that when the spirit of religion

united with the spirit of party, it pro- It was no part of their doctrine that duced effects less correspondent to their the Pope could absolve subjects from known causes than were to be noticed their allegiance. The laws against under any other circumstances. This, them were acts of power, were unjust, which was observable in the reign of and ought to be repealed. The Pope James and his successors, while it con- had restored the jesuits and the inquistituted an apology for such statesmen sition ; but because he had restored as had adopted a particular line of con- the jesuits, would any one say that duct, from which the happy conse. Lord Fingal should be attainted ? No quence they had reasonably expected one would propose it; but in-tead of did not result, at the same time cast a Lord Fingal, they would attaint the grievous responsibility upon those who, whole Catholic population. No man presiding over a long settled form of was entitled to punish bodies for the government, under which, by the bless- crimes of individuals. They had been ing of God, internal happiness and ex reminded too of the cruelties of the ternal glory were enjoyed, were dispo. Irish Catholics some hundred years sed to interfere and to make innova. ago ; but they should have stated the tions in matters of such difficulty and transactions of Ireland since she had delicacy as those where religion and become a nation—for the last forty policy were involved. The presump- years. They should not say—“ here tion was, therefore, against every pro- such a town was burnt-here so many jected alteration, and in favour of the Englishmen were murdered ;"—but, established order of things, which he “ here did Englishmen and Irishmen earnestly hoped the House would fight in one cause—here did a Catho. preserve unwarped by the visionary lic regiment stand-here did Catholics schemes of theoretical politicians. fall defending the British empire." If

Mr Canning admitted the question this were done we should love one anwas very delicate ; but after much re- other. And, instead of this, should flection, he was convinced that what we attaint the children for the crimes was now proposed could be safely of the fathers ? Should we go back to granted. He was anxious for a com- the times Ireland was oppressed, and mittee, as it would tend to satisfy the when she retaliated ? The Protestants Catholics, and shew them that there had taken the land of the Catholics, was a disposition to grant them every and they would take their liberties reasonable concession.

they had taken their tithes, and would Mr Grattan endeavoured to answer take their privileges. This was a pothe objections that had been made licy which would not last-they might against the motion. He insisted that depend it would not last. An interthe Catholics, by the common law, course was arising between the church were entitled to a full equality of pri. of Rome and the church of Ireland, vileges, of which parliament could not and the population were to be let loose justly deprive them for a mere senti- by the state, to take part with the ment of the mind, unless their doctrine clergy. A clamour might be raised; affected some temporal concerns. As but no cry would long continue to go to these, they had the answers of the against the privileges of the people Catholic universities. It was no part and the interests of the state. When of their doctrine, that the Pope bad he saw Britain at the head of Europe, temporal power in Great Britain. It mediating between nations, and swaywas no part of their doctrine that no ing the balance of the world, he own. faith was to be kept with Protestants. ed it had astonished him to see her de.

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