of 14,000 men. On a full view of the state of the navy, and the distresses of the country, those whose duty it was to attend particularly to this department of the public service were of opinion this reduction might be made without danger. But it was not intended to make any reduction in the marine corps; and the reason was, that the reduction of that corps would render the speedy equipment of the navy at a future period a matter of very great difficulty. The vote, therefore, was to be taken for six thousand men for this year, being the number voted last year. The charge for the navy, last year, was L.10,114,000. The charge for this year would be only L.6,397,000; making a saving of L.3,717,000, as compared with the charge of last year. In the charge of L.6,397,000 for this there was, it ought to be mentioned, a sum of L.500,000, which would not appear in the estimate of the following years. It would be proper, also, to mention, that though the number of men was only reduced to 19,000, the charge year, was calculated, with reference to that of last year, as if the vote had been only for 18,000 men. The reason was, that as you reduced the men, you also reduced the ships; so that there was a reduction not only of the expence for the men, but also of the expence for wear and tear. The reduction in the estimates for the navy, then, as compared with those of last would year, amount to L.3,717,000; to which adding the savings under the heads of the army, the commissariat, the ordnance, and the other branches of service to which he had previously adverted, would make up the gross saving to L.6,510,000. He meant this, he repeated, as compared with the supplies of last year. The noble lord then recapitulated the separate charges, as estimated for the current year :→→ from L.28,000 to L.88,000. While he deprecated all gloomy views of our situation, while he saw no reason for alarm or despondency, and entertained hopes of an alleviation of our burdens, even sooner than many would allow, he was as little disposed to deny, as he was ready to lament, that the country was suffering under the severest pressure, in every branch of its industry and resources; that this distress was as universal as it was severe; and that, from the highest to the lowest rank, through all classes of society, the hand of Providence was heavily felt. It was rather an aggravation than an alleviation of the sufferings of a generous people, to know that they did not suffer alone; but if our calamities could be soothed by a fellowship in distress, we need only look into Europe to find causes of consolation. No state on the continent, however small or great, no class of society were exempt from that pressure and exhaustion which were consequent up on a war of such extent. If he compared Great Britain with any one of these states, he should be led to describe her as comparatively happy. Comparisons of this kind, however, could not lighten our distress. Whatever was the lot of other nations, our sufferings were severe, our calamity was great; but if it was great, the ardour of those in affluent circumstances to relieve was likewise great. (Hear, hear!) That desire to lighten the burdens of the destitute, by sharing them that generous sympathy which bound all classes of society together in this happy land, and diffused a general spirit of beneficence and charity-had wrought, not only within the limits of law, but had exerted itself in public and in private, with spontaneous efforts, beyond any thing ever witnessed on any former occasion. The example of England would be admired by the world, and would ope rate a reduction of the evils felt over Europe. In the highest quarter, in the head of the government of this country, the same feelings and sympathies were shared that actuated his people. He not only sympathized with their distress, but was prepared to share their privations; and, from the spontaneous movement of his own mind, had expressed his determination to abstain from receiving, in the present state of distress, so much of the civil list as he could refuse, consistently with maintaining the dignity of his station, without doing what parliament would disapprove of incurring. His Royal Highness had given his commands to inform the House, that he meant to give up for the public service a fifth part of the fourth class of the civil list, which, it ought to be observed, was the only branch connected with the personal expences, or the royal state of the Sovereign; for all the other heads of charge included in the civil list, except the privy purse, were as much for paying public services as the sums included in the estimates he had this night mentioned. That branch of the civil list amounted to L.209,000, and his Royal Highness offered out of this and the privy purse, L.50,000 (hear, hear!) for the public service. The servants of the crown (as we understood the noble lord to say, for he spoke so low as to be inaudible in the gallery at this particular time,) had resolved to follow the example of their royal master, and to surrender that part of their salaries which had accrued to them since the abolition of the property-tax; and he trusted that the whole of what would thus be given up might amount to a a sum not unworthy of the acceptance of the country, nor unbecoming their situation. He now came to the proposition already alluded to, of a committee to inquire into the income and expenditure of the country. Ballot had been an usual mode of chusing such committees, and he was still inclined to think it a good one; but as it had been objected to, and Mr Brougham had revived an old joke of Mr Sheridan on the subject, he would now openly name the members proposed. It could not be expected, that he should name twenty-one individuals who could be considered as perfectly impartial. He confessed he had not observed, that the sentiments of that small class of men who wished to be considered as neutral and independent were treated with any respect by gentlemen on the opposite side: on the contrary, the House must have remarked, that if any class of men were treated by them with more of contempt, asperity, and sarcasm than another, it was that which set up a species of claim to independence and impartiality. This kind of claim seemed, indeed, to be resented by gentlemen opposite with a peculiar acrimony: so that he could not expect to form a committee out of that rare and pure class of members which would be at all acceptable to them. (A laugh.) For his part, he must frankly confess, that though he did not share that spirit to its full extent with which gentlemen opposite seemed imbued, yet he did go along with them to a certain extent; for in his conscience he believed that matters would be in no degree better, if there was no party management in that House; convinced as he was, that much of that splendid and comparatively happy situation which the country enjoyed, was produced by the fair, manly, and liberal conflict of parties, and that it was by the determined competition of public parties that truth, wisdom, and public virtue, were often elicited. Men in office certainly ought not to predominate in such a committee; but a few of them were necessary for giving information. He would combine them with some who were looking forward to office in the event of a change of administration, and with others not looking to office at all. The noble lord concluded with reading the fol lowing list : Lord Castlereagh, Mr Arbuthnot, Mr C. W. Wynn, Mr Gooch, Sir T. Acland. Mr Tierney said, that he could not be expected to be able at once to go through the whole of the details which the noble lord had brought forward. The noble lord had professed to give a very ample account of the expenditure of the great establishments, but he had left out what might be considered rather a material feature in the case, (a laugh,) and that was the income which was to meet this expenditure. From some expressions of the noble lord, it appeared that it was conceived that the machine of finance would go on without any increase to the debt: still there could scarcely be any mode of income devised which would not amount to the same thing: it would only be a question about putting in at one end, and taking out at the other. He was very far from wishing to encourage a spirit of despondency in the country; but he felt most strongly, what it seemed his Majesty's ministers were at last brought to feel, that now was the time for probing the subject to the bottom. He was, however, glad that the ministers at last saw what every body else had long seen-that the expences of the country should be reduced to some reasonable proportion with its means. He was gratified by learning the noble conduct of the Prince Regent, but censured ministers for not having soon er advised what there appeared such a promptitude to accede to in that distinguished quarter. As to their own concession, he considered it as tardy, and made only from necessity. In regard to the nomination of the committee, the noble lord said, that the best proof he could give of the sincerity of government in this business would be, to take an equal number of gentlemen from the two sides of the House. But then, at the same time, the noble lord treated the neutrals rather too rough. ly, (a laugh,) for although he did admit them into his committee, yet he seemed to intimate that they were not likely to do much good. Now he (Mr Tierney), would say, that if the neutrals were good for any thing, it was for such a committee as this. (Laughter.) He had sometimes been reproach ed with being a party man ; but whatever opinion some persons might entertain on this subject, he could only say that he gloried in being a party man. Certainly this was not the case with a good many members of that House, but there were even different parties among the neutrals, one party of whom had maintained a sort of armed neutrality, which ended in their joining the belligerents, and as soon as they had done so every one of them was put upon the staff. (Laughter.) The gentlemen on the other side of the House seemed always to find fault with the neutrals; but those on his side only did so when they fought under false colours, and kept a double set of colours in their hold. (Laughter.) But the question was much more serious as to the admission of men in office into such a committee. He would ask if the noble lord was in earnest about the abolition of offices, when he put into this committee the holders of offices? For instance, one of the proposed members of this committee was a right hon. gentleman with whom he had main Mr tained an uninterrupted friendship of forty years, (meaning, we presume, C. Long,) and towards whom he meant not the slightest disrespect by this notice, who was himself the holder of an office (joint paymaster of the forces,) which must be among the very first of those to be abolished. Was it of such members that the committee ought to be composed? The noble lord, however, said, that without the assistance of men in office, a committee set to decide upon the necessity of maintaining or cutting off certain offices, would be like a judge set to decide a cause without counsel or witnesses. In answer to this he would just say, that he would wish to have the assistance of these gentlemen merely as counsel or witnesses, but in no other capacity. As a member of the committee he would wish to have these gentlemen in office before him, and not beside him. If the committee were composed of, he would not say independent men, because it would be unparliamentary to apply that name exclusively to any set of men in the House, but of men whose immediate and personal interest or feelings could not even be suspected of a leaning towards the preservation of any particular offices, then the House might expect from it a report on which it might act during the present session; but if the committee were not so composed, it would be a mockery to expect any substantial good from its labours, or any thing that could lead to a beneficial arrangement during the present year. called upon the House to support him in this most important point; that, before separating this night, they should appoint such a committee as the circumstances of the country required, as the nature of the duty which they had to perform rendered necessary, and as the expectations of the whole nation looked for. He The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that it was only last year that the income of the Prince Regent had been placed upon such a footing as to make it possible for him to contribute to the exigencies of the country. What ministers had done was in no degree to be considered in the light of taxation, but merely of voluntary contribution. He endeavoured to shew that the finances of the country were in a more flourishing and promising state than they had been represented by Mr Tier ney. Mr Brougham expected, in the present state of the nation, that when economy was set about, it would have been in a workman-like manner, and that the members of the committee now proposed would have been distinguished, not by their habitual subservience to the crown, but by their attachment to the rights and liberties of the nation. The real ground taken for the formation of this committee was, when strictly examined, that it could do nothing: it was obvious that in its operation it must meet with a mass of patronage and of influence which would impede every endeavour at reduction. With. out refering to their names, he might, without speaking invidiously, predict, that every salutary object would be evaded; and that the principal cause of this defeat would be the overwhelming mass of papers and unintelligible accounts with which the committee would be inundated. He might safely say, that they would look only to the favourable side of the account. It was, however, incumbent on that House to look into the real condition of the country, at this moment. (Hear, hear!) The public made a call: would they refuse to answer it? What the public wanted was the reduction of an enormous expenditure. This was a cry not to be smothered; it was a want not to be disappointed. We had now arrived at the grand point of seeing a committee of public expendi ture and revenue, the destroyers of abuses, and abolishers of sinecures, constituted of the same persons who enjoyed them. (Hear, hear!) The ordinary way of choosing six on the one side, as it was supposed, and six on the other, would not do, unless they looked to the equal result, or, as he might say, the real working. How could they expect gentlemen to be exact commissioners of inquiry who were themselves interested in the very subject of that inquiry? The only, the great, the effectual inquiry which could be instituted was, an inquiry into the possibility of reducing the salaries of all the high offices in the state without exception. No work of retrenchment was suggested, no great offices of the crown were reduced, and it was for the House to determine whether they would make themselves parties to the illusion. It was for them to say, whether they would wish to see a committee formed of the landed and independent interest, or whether they would desire to see it composed of the friends of ministers, and those who aspired to become ministers themselves. Mr Canning, though he never expected that any proposition of his noble friend could meet the approbation of the gentlemen opposite, was yet astonished at the degree of irritation which this had excited. In his opinion, the only reasonable doubt could be, whether the system of retrenchment had not been carried too far. The honourable gentleman stated, that the object of this committee ought to be to diminish the influence of the crown, and that, therefore, official men should be excluded from it. It was a matter of argument whether the influence of the crown had grown up within the walls of parliament or in the country, in such a proportion as to render it proper that official men should be excluded from the present inquiry, If tried even by their own test, it would |