deal unfairly with the small traders. There was no actual monopoly at that moment; but it had been found there were only two firms-one Messrs. Hallett, and the other Messrs. Moses-who had given satisfactory tenders for the old clothing. Last year the clothing was sold to Messrs. Hallett; this year it had been purchased by Messrs. Moses. One great reason why it was to the interest of the country that all the old clothing should be bought by one firm was that no old uniform was allowed to be re-sold in this country. The buyer was obliged to undertake to ship the goods away; and there were not many firms in the country who were in a position to buy this large amount of clothing, and who had such relations with other countries as enabled them to dispose of it. With regard to the observations which had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for West Sussex (Sir Walter B. Barttelot), he had to say that there was no disposition at all to change the colour of the uniform of the Army from the good old British colour of red, except in hot climates. In the last campaign it was decided that, for various reasons, khakee cotton was the best material for hot climates. Since he had been at the War Office he had looked into the question himself, because he confessed. he had a strong prejudice in favour of serge instead of cotton. He found that the General Commanding in Egypt and the principal medical officers united in preferring khakee cotton to any other form of material for hot climates, provided that it was worn over flannel. He was not, however, quite satisfied, and should be glad, if it were possible, to make some further trials of khakee serge. SIR FREDERICK FITZ-WYGRAM said, he was glad to hear, and he was sure the great body of the officers of the Army would be pleased to find, that it was not intended to give up the old colour of red. It was thoroughly admitted by all military men that the great point was not so much the colour, as the distinction of colour, by which the nationality of an Army was known. He should prefer to see every British soldier wear a red jacket. In war it was absolutely essential that the nationality of each individual soldier should be known at once. The argument against red was that it was more visible than any other colour, and that in these days of proficiency in rifle shooting it was not advisable to make their men more conspicucus targets than they need be. He believed there was a great fallacy in that argument. When a line was advancing at 1,000 yards it was always in skirmishing order, and he thought that however much men were practised in musketry they would shoot at the advancing line and not at any individual. As the line got nearer, of course the men were drawn closer together; when it got to within 600 yards it was so near as to be immaterial whether the colour was red or khakee or any other. For that reason he thought they might safely adhere to red. Now, with regard to the question of serge or cotton. He had been in India a good many years, and he had found that the principal advantage of cotton over serge was that it could be washed as often as was desired. In hot climates men perspired a good deal, and serge would not stand the constant washing which British soldiers required of it. He had always worn serge; but for the reason he had assigned he thought cotton cloth answered better for the private soldier. Vote agreed to. (3.) £2,227.800, Supply, Manufacture, and Repair of Warlike Stores. THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. W. H. SMITH): I think it is desirable that I should on this Vote make a statement which my Predecessor (the Marquess of Hartington) promised, in answer to a Question I put to him at an early period of the Session, to make. It is a statement of the expenditure out of the ordinary Estimates, and out of the Vote of Credit for naval armaments, land service armaments, and submarine mine defences. In the early part of the present year an inquiry by a specially qualified Committee was held into the present service method of gun construction. Mr. Leese, of Sir Joseph Whitworth's, Sir William Armstrong, and Captain Noble were added for this purpose to the Ordnance Committee. I have already laid the recommendations of this Committee on the Table of the House, and it will therefore be sufficient at this time to say that the decision of the Committee was wholly favourable to the present method of construction, their re increase the power of manufacture to 250 per annum. The total expenditure on naval armaments may be classified as follows:-guns, projectiles, &c., normal Vote £668,000, Vote of Credit £450,000; torpedoes-normal Vote £78,000, Vote of Credit £67,000; miscellaneous-normal Vote £104,000, Vote of Credit £50,000; total-normal Vote £850,000, Vote of Credit £567,000, or a total on both Votes of £1,417,000. The ordinary Estimate for land service armaments (including coaling stations) embraces the following guns and mountings: commendations being directed to certain | and provision is made in the Vote of modifications in the designs calculated Credit for buildings and machinery to to give the guns a larger margin of strength to meet the effects of the slowburning powders now being introduced. The construction of guns suffered a slight delay pending the result of this inquiry; but it is gratifying to be able to state that a more serious cause of delay which threatened difficulty last year has been entirely removed. Mention has formerly been made of the difficulty of obtaining from the trade large steel ingots for the manufacture of heavy guns. There has been no cessation of effort to cope with this difficulty, which may now be said to have been finally overcome. Excluding Elswick, there are now several firms able to supply the Department. The steel forgings up to the end of 1884-5 have all been received, and no difficulty whatever is anticipated in obtaining those which will be required in the present financial year. All guns ordered for the Navy, up to March 31, 1886, will be ready in time for the ships. The ordinary programme of guns for the Navy includes the completion of three 110-ton breech-loading guns and the manufacture of the following-namely, three 13.5 inch of 66 tons, two 12 inch of 48 tons, five 9 2 inch of 22 tons, 102 6 inch of four tons, 43 5-inch of 40 cwt., 40 4 inch of 25 cwt. The Vote of Credit supplies £50,000 for accelerating naval guns, and also money for the manufacture of 100 additional 5-inch guns and other minor gun services. Forgings have also been ordered on account of the programme of 1886-7, and the contract is out for four 66-ton guns for Her Majesty's ship Howe. The total number of breech-loading guns made or making up to March 31, 1886, will be-three 16-25 inch 110 tons; 12 13.5 inch 63 or 66 tons, 17 12 inch 43 or 48 tons, 31 9.2 inch 18 or 22 tons, 41 8 inch 11 tons, 363 6 inch 89 or 100 cwt., 367 5 inch 36 or 40 cwt., 141 4 inch 22 or 25 cwt.-making a total of 975 breech-loading guns. With regard to machine and quick-firing guns, 400 of different sorts are being prepared on the normal Estimate, and 460 more are ordered under the Vote of Credit. The amount to be spent on the combined Votes, and including machine-gun ammunition, will be £350,000. One hundred and fifty Whitehead torpedoes will be made this year on the ordinary Estimate, Mr. W. H. Smith two 12 inch breech-loaders, nine 10 inch breech-loaders, 16 9.2 inch breechloaders, seven 6 inch breech-loaders, besides a certain number of regulation muzzle-loading mountings, the guns being already available, and six 12 inch breech-loading mountings. A sum of £25,000 is taken for four batteries of new Field Artillery 12-pounder breech-loaders. The Vote of Credit includes the special purchase of four 8 inch breech-loading guns, and of seven 6 inch breech-loading guns on disappearing carriages from ir William Armstrong and Company. The great majority of these guns are for coaling stations abroad. Works have already been commenced or their construction ordered at the principal coaling stations-i.e., Aden, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Simon's Bay, Singapore, Trincomalee-and armaments are in course of manufacture. It is proposed to complete the fortifications of these stations, and of the other principal coaling stations, before dealing with the coaling stations of minor importance. I do not think it would be to the advantage of the public to give the precise details ap plicable to each station. On this point it will be sufficient for me to say that the works and armaments have been recommended for approval by the authorities who professionally advise the Secretary of State on these matters. Every effort will be made to complete the whole of the fortifications in the time specified-i.e., March 31, 1888. In the meantime, some temporary additions have been made to the armaments at certain stations. The stations at which expenditure has been authorized are Aden, Jamaica, St. Lucia, Simon's Bay, Trincomalee, Hong Kong, St. Helena, Sierra Leone, Singapore, and Mauri-mercial ports there will be the nucleus tius. The main difficulty in providing of expansive organization-i.e., one dian efficient system of coast defence by vision of the coast corps of the Royal submarine mines is in the organization Engineers, and four companies of the of the personnel to work them. Stores, Volunteer Engineers. In the coaling buildings, and boats are easily procured stations we have provided one battalion if funds are available; but a properly of four companies, to be composed of trained corps requires time to organize. Malays and other Oriental races, for It is quite out of the question to expect Hong Kong, Singapore, Trincomalee. that the Royal Engineers can provide Mauritius, and 43 officers and men of sufficient men for the mine defence of the Royal Engineers. Considerable our numerous ports at home and abroad. progress has been made in providing The cost of such an organization would stores and depôt buildings for the milibe prohibitory, and its establishment tary ports abroad, and at home efforts would prevent the development of local are being made to bring them into a resources which offer to the regular Ser- condition of preparedness for any emervices assistance of a most valuable and geney that may occur. The principal economical character. It has accord- coaling stations capable of receiving ingly been decided to form one division this system of submarine defence are of a coast corps of Royal Engineers for nearly complete as to stores and depôt instructional purposes in relation to the buildings, while the personnel is in course submarine mine defence of our commer- of organization. So far, I have given cial ports, and to form in connection with the results of the expenditure on the this corps Volunteer Submarine Mining ordinary Estimates; but a further sum Companies. This system has already has been taken on the Vote of Credit been successfully tested by the help of for the provision of buildings and stores Colonel Palmer, M.P., of the 1st New- for submarine defence. This has been castle and Durham Engineer Volunteers; mainly expended on the provision of and it has consequently been decided to buildings, stores, and boats for the prinform four Volunteer Companies (as an cipal commercial harbours, including a increase to the establishment of the re- small additional amount for coaling stagiments) for the defence of the Tyne, tions, and a sum of £20,000 to suppleMersey, Clyde, and Severn-for the Tyne, ment the defences of the military ports. the 1st Newcastle and Durham Engineer Taking the two Votes together-i.e., the Volunteers; for the Mersey, the 1st Lan- normal Vote and the Vote of Creditcashire Engineer Volunteers; for the the expenditure on submarine mine deClyde, the 1st Lanarkshire Engineer fence will be as follows:-Buildings, Volunteers; and for the Severn, the 1st £73,000; labour at certain home ports, Gloucestershire Engineer Volunteers. £7,000; stores, £116,000; vessels, Detachments of these companies have £52,000; total, £248,000. been sent to Chatham for instruction for a period of 30 days. The officers and non-commissioned officers will be sent for instruction for a period of from 60 to 120 days, receiving the usual allowances. A special efficiency capitation grant of £5, in lieu of the ordinary allowance, will be issued to the company on account of such members as shall be recommended for the same. For each company of Volunteers a special instructor will be furnished by the coast corps of Engineers. It will be seen that this system is capable of expansion. For submarine mine defence the following organization has been approved: For our military ports at home and abroad there will be 10 companies of Royal Engineers, and four companies of Submarine Mining Militia. In com MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR: How much of that money will be spent in Ireland? THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. W. H. SMITH): I am not able at this moment to give the precise amount; but I will endeavour to give the hon. Gentleman the information subsequently. I propose to follow up the inquiries and proposals of the several Committees which have sat on the defences of the mercantile ports and the arrangements which I have already detailed for the utilization of the Royal Engineers and Engineer Volunteers in the several rivers and ports of the United Kingdom by nominating, in conjunction with my noble Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty (Lord George Hamilton), an officer or officers to prepare a work sum of something more than £250,000 would be required to complete the reserve of stores commenced in the Estimates for the present year. This is altogether irrespective of any expenditure for a new small arm which has been under consideration for some years, but as to which no decision has yet been taken. I have thought it right, Sir Arthur Otway, to put the Committee and the country in possession of these facts in order that they may fully and properly understand the Vote which is now under consideration, a Vote which I trust will be accepted as the first and necessary step towards the provision which is required for the safety of the country. ing scheme for each place, by which all the several elements shall be brought into harmonious co-operation, and the defences be made capable of immediate application on any sudden emergency. At the present moment, no one man is responsible for their completeness; and in availing ourselves of the loyal devotedness and energy of Naval and of Engineer Volunteers, it will be necessary to provide for them skilled and responsible direction and assistance from the Regular Forces. I think it right, also, that the Government should take Parliament and the country into their confidence as to the amount of exertion and the expenditure which will be required in the course of the next three or four years in order to provide the matériel for the protection of our coaling stations, the improved defences of the military ports, and the protection of our rivers and harbours at home, which have been found to be necessary. In December last the Earl of Northbrook stated that it was the intention of the Government to ask, in the three years beginning with 1885-6, for an increased provision for the Navy, amounting to £1,600,000, and £825,000 for armaments and works for the protection of coaling stations. Allusion also was then made to a further provision which would be required for the protection of military ports and mercantile harbours; and subsequently, on introducing his Budget, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Childers) referred to a probable large expenditure in future years for these purposes. I think it would be right the Committee should know what has already been provided out of the Votes of Parliament, including the Vote of Credit, and the amount which will have to be included in the Estimates of the next four years, if the proposals which have been accepted and approved by the late Govern-vernment should take into serious con ment are carried out. I have already said that the Navy and coaling stations required a sum of £2,425,000 in three years. The Estimate for armament and works for the military ports is £2,230,000, and for the mercantile ports £1,770,000; making a total of £6,425,000. Of this £6,425,000, £900,000 has been met out of the Estimates of this year and the Vote of Credit, leaving an abnormal expenditure of £5,525,000 to be provided on Army Estimates within the next four or five years, and in addition a Mr. W. H. Smith MR. O'KELLY said, the statement which the right hon. Gentleman had just made was, from an Irish point of view, exceedingly unsatisfactory. The right hon. Gentleman, acting on behalf of the Government, showed a great desire to protect the foreign coaling stations; but he made no provision to protect the Irish towns which were also exposed to attack. In case of war-the only case in which the protection of the coaling stations would become a pressing necessity-nearly all the Irish towns would be practically undefended; and, so far as he gathered, no steps were to be taken to put them in a state of defence. The proposition which the right hon. Gentleman had made with regard to the establishment of a Volunteer Engineer Corps for the defence of towns would be peculiarly applicable to a great many of the Irish towns. Take, for instance, Waterford, Cork, Dublin, Derry and Belfast. Those were towns which, from their situation, could be defended with some chance of success by Volunteer Corps, especially if they used torpedoes. It was very desirable, from an Irish point of view, that the Go sideration the desirability of placing Ireland in an equal position as regarded defence as England and the outlying Colonies. The Irish towns were just as important to the Irish people as the English towns were to the English people. The Irish people had to contribute to the defences of the Empire, and therefore they had a right to claim that they should be put upon a footing which would enable them in case of war to protect themselves. At present, Derry, Belfast, Galway, Limerick, and Dublin were completely open to attack. There | try, and there was no doubt they were greatly in need of improvement; but he was determined that their coaling stations abroad, which were now more exposed than others, should be armed and fortified in a manner which was absolutely necessary for their safety. The right hon. Gentleman had stated that a sum of £6,425,000 would be necessary to carry out the works proposed, and that it was intended to spread the raising of that amount over several years. He (Sir Walter B. Barttelot) was persuaded that the nation was now fully alive to the necessity of improved defences, and for the expenditure which was now proposed. It was not for him to say how it was to be carried out; but he was satisfied that now the attention of the country had been called to these matters it would never forgive any Government that neglected to carry out its wishes, and he was sure that any Government, in following the national will, would be studying the best interests of the country. With reference to heavy ordnance, the right hon. Gentleman had stated that a very large number of breechloading guns were required for the Navy; and he wished to ask whether, considering the great outlay that was to be made, and the great number of guns which were to be made both for the Army and the Navy, the time had not come when those two Departments should be separated, and when the Navy should manufacture its own guns? It would appear that the result of the present system must necessarily be that one Department would keep all the best of the guns for itself. He would say nothing as to that, however; but it would be well for the Government to consider whether the time had not now come when some change should be made. At the end of his right hon. Friend's speech he stated that there were a certain number of Field Artillery batteries which had got new 12-pounder breech-loading guns-he stated that there would be seven batteries of those guns completed by the end of the year. Now, he should like to know from his hon. Friend the Surveyor General of the Ordnance (Mr. Guy Dawnay), when he got up, what he thought of that gun. He had heard that this was the best gun in the world, and he would like to hear on whose authority that was stated. He could only say that in this country their SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT quite agreed with the hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Kelly) that as much attention should be paid to the defence of the Irish towns as to the English towns; indeed, he firmly believed his right hon. Friend (Mr. W. H. Smith) had got the Irish towns in view just as much as any other towns. Of course, as the hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Kelly) had said, the arming of Volunteers in Ireland was a wider and different question, and could never be done in a hurry, but required most careful and anxious consideration. The formation of corps for engineer and torpedo service was another question altogether, to which he was sure the right hon. Gentleman would give his serious consideration. He congratulated his right hon. Friend upon the statement which he had just made, because it was not only a very statesmanlike statement, but it showed that he had carefully considered the great need of the country in regard to defences. The right hon. Gentleman was not only prepared to improve the defences of the home coun |