might otherwise have prosecuted on | Lordships and of Her Majesty's Governaccount of unforeseen difficulties, and ment was necessary, in order to ascerquestions that had to be solved-for in- tain if there were deficiencies in our stance, the question with regard to military armaments and munitions of water-glass painting. If Mr. Herbert war; and, if so, that they might be seemed a long time in completing the brought to notice and remedied. There work he had undertaken, the circum- had been a feeling that our military stances must be taken more fully into stores had been allowed during the last consideration. He rose for the purpose six years to fall below a sound level. of expressing his own sympathy and ad- First among present demands stood the miration for the great work Mr. Herbert Artillery. The increased activity in the had done in reviving what was supposed Navy, stimulated by the national deto be a lost art among us. Mr. Herbert mand, would require increased activity had made himself a reputation which in the gun factories to supply the artilwould last as long as that building en-lery for the new ships, and especially to dured, and a name which would be immortalized in the history of painting. Whatever disappointment Mr. Herbert might feel, no doubt the sympathy and admiration they all felt for him would be some compensation to him. While not wishing to interfere with the de-sciousness of national weakness on our cision of the Office of Works, he would only say that the matter was one which, under any circumstances, and more especially in the peculiar circumstances under which Mr. Herbert completed his work, should be treated with the greatest consideration. LORD EMLY said, he deeply regretted that Mr. Herbert was not permitted to complete the frescoes, a work which called forth the admiration of the world. He (Lord Emly) should be very much surprised if the unanimous wish of their Lordships was not to condemn the gross injustice that had been done. supply the carriages for which heavy guns had too often had to wait. The Colonial ports and coaling stations, in addition to our home coast defences, made a heavy demand for guns of position. The newly-awakened con coasts would lead to much self-help; but in the matter of weapons the State must assist. No one who had observed the working in battery of heavy muzzleloading guns could hesitate to demand breech-loaders; and the above considerations led to the conclusion that it would be better to enlarge our Government manufactories for the construction of guns and gun carriages, and our small-arm and gunpowder factories for fabricating materials on which we could thoroughly rely, than to be greatly dependent on external aid; and, also, for our Field Artillery, we must correct the error committed some 15 or 16 years DEFENCES OF THE EMPIRE-ARMA- ago in rejecting breech-loaders. The new MENTS AND MUNITIONS OF WAR. QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. LORD NAPIER OF MAGDALA, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether it would not be desirable to convene a Royal Commission to consider the present condition of the armaments and munitions of war in the United Kingdom and the Colonies, and what additions to them are necessary to meet any emergency or hostile combination? said, that taking into consideration the smallness of their Military Force, and the extent of the Empire it was called on to defend, it was imperative that they should be supplied with the very best weapon. Therefore, he had been impressed for a considerable time with the feeling that the proposal which he now presented for the consideration of their field gun, which had been so highly he was impressed with the great ability | enable a Government not to do what of these officers, more especially of the they ought to do, and to shield those Director General, General Alderson; who ought to have done their duty but his duties were enormous, and it without necessitating an inquiry as to was difficult for a Departmental officer why they did not. He would wish to to initiate any considerable increase to have a Return of our stores and guns. his establishment. He could not move The Government might not wish to give independently, being only able to act such a Return; but they might be sure to the extent of what was supplied him. that foreign nations knew the state of If he made recommendations he was our stores and guns very well. None apt to be regarded as overrating the knew better than his noble Friend the wants of his particular Department. Under Secretary of State for War (VisHis opinions would be listened to with count Bury) the deficiency of our supply more attention if they were confirmed of guns, and it was also notorious that by the voice of an impartial Commission. our stock of small arms was very far He did not think it convenient to bring from what it ought to be; and it was the subject forward when there appeared essential for the proper defence of the a prospect of a disturbance of the peace- country that we should be well supported ful relations between Great Britain and with guns, both large and small. The some other countries. It was not at Militia and Volunteers were shortly to such a time that we should begin to be armed with the Martini-Henry; and, make new weapons and new machinery; when that was done, he would like to it was the time to turn to account the know how many were in store? He best weapons we possessed. But now, believed the amount would be very when there appeared no such strain or small; at any rate, not approaching severe tension, it seemed the right and what a nation like ours ought to have. fitting time to put our house in order, It should be remembered that in the and to proceed calmly and deliberately to French War arms were taken by huncorrect any deficiencies rather than to wait dreds and thousands at a time. He befor a time of danger, and then to hurry lieved that about 3,000 a-week was all into contracts and preparations, which we could turn out. It was notorious were more costly than in ordinary times, that the 40-pounder was now inferior to and were too often not completed in time the 12-pounder and the 16-pounder, and for the occasion. The noble and gallant steps ought to be taken to improve it. Lord concluded by asking the Question He pointed out last year that our preof which he had given Notice. sent rifle at 2,000 yards made excellent practice, and it would be better to try and improve it than to have an entirely new weapon which would necessitate a break of gauge. The fact was, each Party as it came into Office tried to cut down expenditure, in order to make a good show with the Budget. That was the real reason why the armaments of the country were in their present condition. He should like to ask what course the Government intended to take with reference to the new arm? THE EARL OF WEMYSS said, that he had a Motion down on the Paper for to-morrow with respect to the new arm; but probably it would be convenient if he were, on this occasion, allowed to make a few remarks on the subject which his noble and gallant Friend had brought before them. His noble and gallant Friend had done good service in calling attention to our want of stores and efficient guns, and he had not done so without ample grounds. His noble and gallant Friend recommended a Commission; but much good could hardly come of that, because, for many years past, there had been a perpetual series of Committees and Commissions. There was hardly a room in the War Office in which a War Office Commission had not sat at some time or other, and nothing came of them all. Another Commission would only lead to the same result. It seemed to him that Commissions served only as a screen to Lord Napier of Magdala LORD ELLENBOROUGH said, he hoped that, if the Commission was ap pointed, it would be an independent body. Had those who were responsible for these matters spoken out in the way they ought to have done, our Army would not now be in the position in which it was. It was absolutely necessary, if information was to be sought, that it should be from those who were hard-working soldiers, whose merits were too often overlooked, and not from those soldier politicians who had con- | He did not, of course, know what that stantly held Staff appointments, and Committee would decide; but, whatever who had never for an hour commanded it was, it would only be in the way of a regiment. It was absolutely neces- advice to the head of the War Office, sary that something was done, for the who, after the Committee had reported, Army had not been in the state in which would form his own judgment upon the it ought to have been as regarded its subject. That was the state of the case armament, and various other important with regard to the re-armament of the particulars, for upwards of 25 years. troops with the new breech-loading rifle. He would now come to the somewhat larger question raised by the noble and gallant Field Marshal. The condition of the armaments and munitions of war had already occupied the serious attention of the Government. They found that their Predecessors had come to recognize the necessity for improved guns, and for a remedy in the matter of the deficiency of stores. He (Viscount Bury) was not there to say that the armaments were or were not in a satisfactory state; but he merely said that the matter had occupied the serious attention of the Government; that something had already been done in the time of their Predecessors; that more was now being done by the present Government; and that they hoped to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. He should like to give a general statement as to what had occurred. The following was the provision that was being made during the year on account of the Naval and Submarine Mining Services. The normal Vote amounted to £2,227,000, and the Vote of Credit to £2,360,000-making an available sum of £4,587,000. that, £2,227,000 was due to the normal Vote and £2,360,000 to the Vote of Credit. Of the latter sum, there was due to Egypt £800,000; this left £1,560,000; and there was due to the Navy £560,000, which left £1,000,000 available. There were sundry schemes for the supply and increase of armaments, which were provided for out of that £1,000,000 to the amount of £465,000, and that left of the Vote of Credit and the ordinary Estimates together about £500,000. That £500,000 would be allocated as follows: Expended on rifles, which would be recovered on repayments, £100,000; small arms ammunition beyond previous programme, £100,000; acceleration of guns for land and sea services, £120,000; additional torpedoes for Navy and plant for increased manufacture, £85,000, which was far in advance of former years; making good loss on appropria THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Viscount BURY) said, that no one could bring this subject forward with greater force than the noble and gallant Lord who introduced it (Lord Napier of Magdala). The noble Earl who followed him (the Earl of Wemyss) spoke of the re-armament of the Army with a particular rifle; and, for the sake of clearness, he (Viscount Bury) would dispose of that question first, and then address himself to the remarks of the noble and gallant Field Marshal. The noble Earl was himself a Member of the Committee which sat to consider the subject of a change of rifle for the Army. That Committee reported mainly and generally in favour of an improved arm. The matter, when the late Government left Office, appeared ripe for settlement; but it had not been settled. It, therefore, devolved upon the present Government to decide what should be done. His right hon. Friend at the head of the War Office could not take any decision of his Predecessors, but felt it his duty to examine the matter for himself; and, although there was a considerable consensus of opinion among military experts as to the advantage of having an improved weapon for the rank and file of the Army, that question had not yet been decided upon. The noble Lord on his right (Lord Ellenborough) had stated that the evidence of working soldiers should be taken on this matter. He (Viscount Bury) was quite in accord with the noble Lord on that point; and he might say that it was the very course which his right hon. Friend at the head of the War Office was about to adopt. The Papers and evidence with regard to this change of rifle had been to-day given into the hands of a small Committee, over which an officer well known to their Lordships' House would preside, Colonel Philip Smith. A more practical soldier than Colonel Smith could not be found. With him would be associated a couple more practical soldiers. Of LORD WAVENEY said, he had no doubt as to whether the Martini-Henry rifle was an arm adequate for the defence of the Empire. If they ought to have a store of 800,000 stand of arms, at the rate they were making them-4,000 a-week it would take four years to have that quantity ready. He wished to warn the Government against allowing alterations and improvements to bring about delays. tions in aid, £50,000; and these items, I thought his noble Friends might dismiss with £45,000 for margin, account for from their minds that they would be the £500,000. It would be seen that caught napping in this respect. Nothing very considerable advance had been had been decided as to the arming of made this year in the provision for the Army with a new gun; and, therestores, for ammunition, and for guns. fore, the production of the MartiniHe did not say that we were in a satis- Henry would go on with all possible factory position; but he did say that we speed. The idea of appointing a Royal were progressing towards that position. Commission did not commend itself to His right hon. Friend the Secretary of the Secretary of State. He was enState for War had by no means lost gaged almost day and night in investisight of the importance of the subject, gating the condition of affairs for himwhich had been before him ever since self; and he felt that while he was he entered upon his Office. This appro- doing that the appointment of a Compriation of £500,000 for increased arma- mission could hardly have a satisfactory ments would leave to be provided next result. If he afterwards found it necesyear the sum of £250,000 for a further sary to seek the assistance of a Commisreserve of stores, and that would not sion, he would be most happy to do so. exhaust the demands upon the Trea- But at present he hoped that a Motion sury, for there would probably be in for a Commission would not be pressed. future years a permanent addition of £150,000 on account of these extra stores. As to Field Artillery, he was not able to quote from the Report he had in his hand, because it had not yet been laid on the Table; but of Field Artillery we had a very considerable provision, and we had enough to send a considerable number of guns to India if they were required. As to 40-pounder guns, there was a 40-pounder which was new and which was a breech-loader-it was a gun of very great power and accuracy -and of that we had a considerable store. It was not at all a contemptible With regard to mountain guns, we had seven batteries-that was, 42 new guns this year; and there was the material for turning them out at a considerable rate. A considerable addition had been made to the plant, and the Secretary of State for War was inclined to add still further to that arm. We were very fairly off for siege guns. As to the reserve of small arms, it was true that with the arming of the Volunteers and the Militia with the Martini-Henry rifle, the reserve of small arms had fallen below what it ought to be. At present we were turning out about 3,000 a-week. Alterations were being made in the mode of working, which would bring the turn-out to about 4,000 aweek. This was the normal position; but by night shifts and other arrangements we could turn out double the number. We should practically have about 20,000 of these Martini-Henrys in store, and we should go on manufacturing them as rapidly as we could. He Viscount Bury arm. LORD NAPIER OF MAGDALA said, he should like to know how many field guns could be sent to India, and whether they were of the latest breech-loading pattern? He would also observe that though the sum reserved for heavy guns no doubt required an effort, and was so far satisfactory, it would not go very far to meet the demand for the foreign ports and coaling stations. It was satisfactory to know that the Secretary of State for War had given his serious attention to the subject; and, therefore, he would not press the Motion for a Royal Commission. VISCOUNT BURY, in reply, said, there were 271 muzzle-loading guns of 16 lbs. WATERWORKS CLAUSES ACT (1847) THIRD READING. Order of the Day for the Third Reading read. Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a." (The Viscount Enfield.) was ad misericordiam; but he must call the noble and learned Lord's attention to the fact that, while doing so, he had wholly ignored the extortion in the shape of exorbitant overcharge practised by those Companies for a great number of years. He (Lord Truro) would impress upon their Lordships that there was great necessity that the Bill should pass. VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, his noble and learned Friend (Lord Bramwell) had used such strong terms in regard to this Bill that he must recall their Lordships' attention to the history of the measure. It was before the other House of Parliament for four months, and the third reading was passed without opposition. LORD BRAMWELL, interposing, said, that the Bill certainly did not pass without opposition. LORD BRAMWELL said, he wished to raise a last, and he feared an unavailing, protest against a measure which was wholly unjust in principle, and the proceedings in which had been of a most unusual character. The Bill was grossly unjust, and would cause much misery. It altered the Private Acts of eight different Water Companies supplying the Metropolis. It altered the private bargains which those Companies had made with the public, and the Bill was in reality a Private Bill, and would have been so treated if the Companies had themselves proposed alterations of a like character. And the alteration in those Acts would operate to the grievous loss of the Companies and their shareholders, many of whom depended wholly for their maintenance on the dividends received on their shares. The income of these poor people would be diminished by one-fifth. There had been no complaints of the Water Companies; and no Petitions, except from Vestries which did not understand the question, and would be glad to reduce the income of Water Companies as low as possible, had been presented in favour of the Bill. The Companies would be obliged to charge on assessments as to which they had no voice. Everybody else was entitled to appeal against an assessment; but in consequence of the time at which that Bill would be passed it would be too late to appeal, and the Companies would be subjected to this gross injustice for the next five years. If this Bill had been referred in the proper way to a Select Committee, witnesses would have been examined and the subject properly thrashed out. But that course was not followed, and this great wrong was to be perpetrated. The Water Companies had done their best, and it was a very remarkable fact that out of their 700,000 customers they had only had 50 complaints settled by the magistrates, and that all those cases except two were settled in favour of the Companies. As he had said, the Bill would work a grievous amount of injustice, and he could not believe their Lordships could understand its injurious and unfair effect. He begged to oppose the Motion. VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, he thought he was correct in saying that the third reading was passed without opposition. It was true, however, that there was an important division in Committee, on the question whether the Bill should be treated as a Public Bill or not. When it came to that House, the noble Earl who presided over their Lordships' Committees (the Earl of Redesdale) did not treat it as a private measure, and consequently it came before them as a Public Bill. After having been read the second time without a division, it was referred to an impartial Committee, who heard an able representative of the Water Companies, and reported the Bill without Amendment to the House. He hoped it would be passed. LORD FITZGERALD said, that his noble and learned Friend (Lord Bramwell) and the noble Earl on the Cross Benches (the Earl of Wemyss) had reiterated the arguments against this Bill several times over, and had asked their Lordships to reverse their previous decisions. For himself, he could not understand such a course of action. What had been advanced on behalf of the Water Companies only went to show that for years they had been taking too much. What his noble and learned Friend denounced as spoliation was this LORD TRURO said, he deeply ad--No person being appointed to make a mired the courage and persistency of the noble and learned Lord (Lord Bramwell) in fighting the battle of the Water Companies as he had done, although it valuation under the Act of 1847, the Water Companies made valuations for themselves, and on that footing they continued to charge until a case was |