conducted himself. His other ground was the justice of the case. This club stood on the same footing as the Carlton or the Reform, and there should be equal justice for the poor man and the rich. THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (Earl BEAUCHAMP) said, his answer would be very simple. The matter was considered by the Home Office very carefully in May last, and the late Home Secretary (Sir William Harcourt) then instructed the Public Prosecutor to take up the case on behalf of the police and to defend them. He did not see any discrepancy between the statement of the Secretary of State and the answer given by the Public Prosecutor, who very naturally was reluctant to do something which would have the effect of reversing the action he was instructed to take in May last. The noble Earl put his appeal on the ground of equal justice. But their Lordships would be very much surprised if the police made a foray upon the Carlton or the Reform, that the Secretary of State should be called upon to prosecute them at the public expense, on the ground of equal justice to rich and poor. They were told that the members of the International Club were poor men. As individuals, no doubt, they might be poor; but when they were considered in the aggregate there could not be any serious difficulty in their procuring funds for conducting the prosecution. Therefore, he did not think that the allegation of injustice was borne out by the facts of the case. The matter had been considered by the late Secretary of State, and it had also been carefully considered by the present authorities at the Home Office, and they had not been able to satisfy themselves that there was any reason why they should adopt the unusual course of undertaking the defence of the police on the one hand, or, on the other hand, of paying the expenses of this prosecution. The circumstances must be most exceptional and unusual to justify a course like that, and the Secretary of State did not feel himself called upon to adopt the very unusual course suggested by the noble Earl. THE EARL OF WEMYSS said, that the case was now different from what it was in May, as the police had been committed for trial. House adjourned at a quarter past Eight o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter past Four o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, 28th July, 1885. MINUTES.1-SUPPLY-considered in Committee CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES-CLASS IV.— EDUCATION, SCIENCE, AND ART, Vote 18; CLASS III.-LAW AND JUSTICE, Vote 31. Resolutions July 27] reported. PRIVATE BILLS (by Order)-Considered as amended -Belfast Central Railway (Abandonment) *; Southampton Corporation." Withdrawn-Southwark and Vauxhall Water. PUBLIC BILLS-Second Reading-Expiring Laws Continuance [247]. Committee-Report Third Reading - Lunacy Acts Amendment [244]; Metropolitan Police Staff Superannuation [246]: Patent Law Amendment [240], and passed. Report Elementary Education Provisional Orders Confirmation (Birmingham, &c.)* [228]; Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (Public Health Act) (No. 2) * [212]. * SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. COLONEL MAKINS said, he thought it would save the time of the House if he stated what the promoters intended to do in regard to this Bill. He was informed by the promoters of the Bill that although they were fully aware of the great urgency of the matter, they were also aware of the difficulties in which they would be placed in carrying out the duties imposed upon them by Parliament in the face of the opposition which had been raised to the progress of the Bill. No doubt, it would be for the interests of the consumers that the Bill should be passed; but looking to the period of the Session at which they had now arrived, and that there was still a possibility that the Standing Orders of the House would not be suspended, the promoters had come to the conclusion that they would best consult the convenience of the House, and best show their respect to it, by not persevering with the Bill. He proposed, therefore, to move that the Order for the second reading of the Bill be read and discharged. If any difficulty should arise years it had provided without such Parliamentary powers. He would refer to another authority which his hon. and gallant Friend would also accept. Evidence in support of the Bill was given by Mr. Knight, who stated that for some years he had been Chairman of the Southwark and Vauxhall Water Company. Mr. Knight was asked by the Chairman of the Committee to the consumers in consequence of a deficiency in the supply of water, he hoped it would be clearly understood that the blame would not rest upon the Southwark and Vauxhall Company, who had done their best to make provision for the wants of the locality by legislation. If any difficulty did arise, and complaints were made of an inadequate supply, the House must bear its full share, and a very large share, of the blame. But considering the period of the Session, and of the probability that the progress of the Bill would be resisted at every stage upon the Standing Orders of the House, he thought it would not be fair to the House to take up more of its time. He, therefore, begged to move that the Order for the second reading of the Bill be read and discharged. Motion made, and Question proposed, therefore they did not require capital to "That the Order for the Second Reading of the Southwark and Vauxhall Water Bill [Lords] be read and discharged."-(Colonel Makins.) MR. FIRTH said, he should have allowed the Motion for the withdrawal of the Bill to be made without any observation if it had not been for one remark which had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend. While he was perfectly ready to take a full share of the responsibility for the rejection of the Bill, he could not concur in the statement which his hon. and gallant Friend had made in reference to the necessity for the Bill so far as the interest of the consumers who were to be served by it were concerned. In refuting that statement, he (Mr. Firth) would not rest the matter upon his own opinion, but would cite an authority which he believed his hon. and gallant Friend would at once accept. When the Bill was brought into the House of Commons last year for the supply of Wimbledon, the promoters, through their counsel, stated that the object of the Bill was to extend the limits of supply of the Southwark and Vauxhall Water Company. "That," said the learned counsel, "is the sole object of the Bill. It seeks no capital powers whatever. It simply seeks statutory authority for doing that which for the last 30 years has been done without." That was to say, that it sought simply to continue under Parliamentary powers for providing a supply which for 30 Colonel Makins "Are you able to supply the higher level with greater facilities than the Lambeth Company? And the answer to that question was "At the time when the arrangement was made I believe the Lambeth Company could not give that supply at all, and we did it for them. But I believe that now the Lambeth Company would be able to give that supply if they were asked." You have been doing it?-Yes, we have done it " enable them to do it "and we have done it very efficiently and very I have been connected with the Company." satisfactorily for the last five or six years since Then followed a question to which he (Mr. Firth) wished particularly to draw the attention of his hon. and gallant Friend, because he was satisfied that his hon. and gallant Friend would not seek to impeach any statement of the Chairman of the Company. "In order to supply these districts efficiently, is it necessary for you to seek any fresh capital powers of any kind?-Not a penny. Have you both plenty of money and plenty of water within your statutory powers-Yes, ample. We have ample capital, and we have a surplus of something like 8,000,000 gallons of water per day beyond what we are distributing. and we can and have distributed 25,000,000 We are now distributing 17,500,000 gallons, gallons per day. We have effected a saving by preventing waste." In reply to further questions, Mr. Knight stated that the powers asked for were required for Wimbledon in order to prevent waste, and, he added, that a constant supply, with a proper system of waste prevention, tended to diminish the consumption. Then, as to the question of urgency, Mr. Shiress Will, who appeared for the Wimbledon Local Board, said "I am here on behalf of the Local Authority to say that there is nothing in the local requirements of Wimbledon as regards water which is so urgent that you should be asked to pass this Bill, or which is urgent at all." MR. SPEAKER: Order! I must remind the hon. Gentleman that the Motion before the House is that the Order for the second reading of the Bill be read and discharged. It is quite irregular to discuss the merits of the Bill upon such a Motion. MR. FIRTH said, he accepted the ruling of the Chair. He had only been anxious to point out, in answer to the remarks of his hon. and gallant Friend, that the counsel who represented the Wimbledon Local Authority declared that there was no urgency in the matter whatsoever. COLONEL MAKINS: This year ? MR. FIRTH: No; the statement was made last year. If the debate had gone on he should have been prepared to show that the circumstances were the same now, and that the Bill had been brought before the House at an unfortunate moment. Question put, and agreed to. QUESTIONS. 0 EGYPT-MISSION OF SIR HENRY DRUMMOND WOLFF. out my right hon. Friend; but it is not usual to lay on the Table_beforehand the instructions given to an Envoy going to a foreign country. MR. LABOUCHERE: Will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to say whether we shall have an opportunity of discussing the policy of the Government in this matter, and whether he will give us an opportunity by putting down the first stage of the Appropriation Bill at such an hour that a debate could take place upon it? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: We shall be anxious to afford every facility, and I rather anticipated that some discussion of the kind would arise on the Appropriation Bill. MR. WEBSTER asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether, having regard to the necessity of ample time being afforded for the discussion of the Universities (Scotland) Bill, the prospect of prolonged opposition to its MR. M'LAREN asked Mr. Chancellor the Session, he will now see fit to anprovisions, and the advanced period of of the Exchequer, If he can give the nounce, for the convenience of the House any further information as to the House, that the Bill will not be promission of the Right honourable Mem-ceeded with this Session? The hon. ber for Portsmouth; and, whether he will lay the terms of his instructions upon the Table? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS- BEACH): My right hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth (Sir H. Drummond Wolff) will be accredited to His Majesty the Sultan on a special Mission with reference to the affairs of Egypt, and in the execution of the same Mission he will subsequently proceed to Egypt. Her Majesty's Government have to deal with, and, as far as may be, to settle, several grave and difficult questions in regard to that country which are still undetermined. The territories placed under the Khedive by the Firman of 1879 must be protected from the recurrence of the disturbances to which in recent years they have been exposed, and must be assured in as great a degree as possible the blessings of good government and of peace. It is in the execution of this duty that Her Majesty's Government have resolved upon sending Member, observing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not yet present, said he should postpone the Question till he saw the right hon. Gentleman in his place. THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Sir R. ASSHETON CROSS): Will the hon. Member allow me to say that if this Bill does not go through it will certainly be due to the opposition of the hon. Member himself, who will have to account for it to the people of Scotland. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE QUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH), having now arrived in his place, said: Looking to the list of Bills on the Paper, and to the opposition of the hon. Member and some other Members from Scotland, I am afraid we cannot hope to proceed with this Bill. MR. WEBSTER was understood to ask whether he was to accept this as a final answer? [No reply.] NAVY-THE EVOLUTIONARY SQUAD RON-H.M.S. "AJAX." Finance Lord, an independent financier, with the view of securing an effectual financial control over our Naval expenditure in the future; whether there be in the terms of the Patent of 1869, under which Boards of Admiralty are now constituted, anything to render illegal the appointment of a Permanent Finance Lord; and, if so, what that objection is; whether it is contemplated that Sir Gerald Fitzgerald, recently appointed Accountant General of the Navy, shall, as the chief of one of eight Departments at the Admiralty, in addition to the mul tifarious duties already devolving upon his present office, be called upon to undertake the onerous and responsible duty of endeavouring to institute and continue effectual financial control over the seven other Admiralty Departments? MR. BERESFORD (for Lord HENRY LENNOX) asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, Whether his attention has been called to the facts stated in The Daily Telegraph of the 20th July, by its Correspondent with the Evolutionary Squadron, that, during the recent Naval practice, H.M.S. Ajax behaved in an extraordinary manner, her helm appearing at times to lose all command of her, and that a serious collision with H.M.S. Agincourt was only averted by that ship backing astern at full speed; whether it is true that H.M.S. Ajax, although one of our most recent ironclads, is not a safe ship to manoeuvre with a squadron, when going at any but the lowest rate of speed; and, whether, if this statement be true, the sole responsi- THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIbility for such constructive blunder rests RALTY (Lord GEORGE HAMILTON): I with the Constructive Department at am not aware that there is any wish on Whitehall; and if, under such circum- the part of the public that an indepenstances, he will take steps at once to re-dent and permanent Finance Lord should organise that Department? THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Lord GEORGE HAMILTON): A statement to the above effect, purporting to come from the Correspondent to The Daily Telegraph with the Evolutionary Squadron, was seen by me; but, as no official Report on this point has reached the Admiralty, I attach little importance to such a statement unless supported by trustworthy evidence and report. I am informed by Sir Geoffrey Hornby that the Ajax, up to the speed at which she has been tried with the Evolutionary Squadron-namely, about 10 knots-is not considered to be an unsafe ship to manoeuvre with a squadron. SIR JOHN HAY asked whether Sir Geoffrey Hornby had expressed an opinion whether going at a speed beyond 10 knots the Ajax was a safe ship? THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: She has not been tested beyond 10 knots. THE ADMIRALTY-A PERMANENT MR. BERESFORD (for Lord HENRY LENNOX) asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, Whether he is aware that much disappointment prevails in the public mind at his declaration that he was not prepared to take any steps towards the appointment, as Permanent be added to the Board of Admiralty. THE ROYAL UNIVERSITY OF IRE- MR. JUSTIN M'CARTHY asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, In what subjects the Senate of the Royal University, Ireland, propose to examine candidates orally at the second examination in arts, and to what THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEextent such oral examination will be QUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH): carried? On consultation with the proper authoTHE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRE-rities, I find that the necessary arrangeLAND (Sir WILLIAM HART DYKE): I ments will be made on the illness of the am informed that candidates for honours Serjeant-at-Arms or Deputy Serjeant will be examined orally in the subjects to prevent any inconvenience arising. in which they seek honours, and that pass candidates will be examined orally PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS-REGISin experimental physics, chemistry, biology, and geology. The extent to which this examination will be carried must be left to the discretion of the Examiners within the limits of the course defined. I have given the hon. Member the information he seeks, so far as I am able to do so; but I rather doubt the utility of putting Questions upon matters which are within the competence of the Governing Body of the University to deter mine. POOR LAW (IRELAND)-BANTRY UNION. MR. DEASY asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether the promised inquiry into the alleged irregular alterations of the rate books of the Bantry Union has yet taken place; if not, whether he will compel the revising officer to proceed to an inquiry at once; and, whether he will take steps to have Mr. Gilhooly, P.L.G., who has made charges against certain of the Union officials and others, informed of the day on which it is intended to have the rate books examined? THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Sir WILLIAM HART DYKE): The Commissioner of Valuation informs me that it is intended to investigate this complaint next month, and that Mr. Gilhooly will receive notice prior to the holding of the inquiry. TRATION OF VOTERS-ALLEGED MISCONDUCT OF OVERSEERS. MR. THOROLD ROGERS (for Mr. EARP) asked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether his attention has been called to the fact that a solicitor named Metcalf, residing at Southwell, Notts. who is acting as the Conservative Registration Agent for the Newark Division, has issued books to the overseers with a request to be furnished with copies of the registers marked to indicate the politics of the persons entered upon such registers, under the initials C. for Conservative, L. for Liberal, and D. for doubtful; and whether the said solicitor has received from overseers books so marked; and, what steps he proposes to take in reference to such conduct on the part of overseers paid for their services by the Government? THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR): The Conservative registration agent has asked the chairman of the Conservative registration committees and others to mark copies of the registers, as stated; but Mr. Metcalf positively denies that any such application has been made to an overseer with the knowledge that he held the office of overseer, and the Report I have received from the Local Government Board Inspector, whom I requested to look into the matter, entirely confirms this denial. PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF COMMONS-The hon. Member is under a misappre OFFICERS OF THIS HOUSE-THE SERJEANT AND DEPUTY SIR ROBERT FOWLER (LORD MAYOR) asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether Her Majesty's Government would consider the propriety, in view of the great increase of the business of the House, of arranging that, in case of the Serjeant or Deputy Serjeant at Arms being absent from illness, the Assistant Serjeant should be available to relieve them in the Chair? hension in supposing that overseers are paid for their services by the Government. The office of overseer is an un paid and compulsory one. POOR LAW (ENGLAND AND WALES) — MEDICAL OFFICER. MR. THOROLD ROGERS asked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether it is the case that Mr. Thomas Davies, appointed district medical officer to the Conway Union in 1873, |