ago there was an order issued, and 40 | had done he had simply related facts women were taken by the police from which were notorious. He had not inthe streets near Waterloo Place. Well, tended to make any general charge when he came out of his club the very against the Police Force beyond thisnight afterwards he himself saw the that they were ordinary human beings, same policemen who had apprehended exactly the same as hon. Members all some of the women talking and chatting were; and if temptations like those held with them in the most friendly manner. out to the police were held out to them There was no doubt that there were a they would probably succumb as any of great many good men amongst these the police would give way. Where was policemen; but if they put these temp- there anything in the clause to show tations in their way they could not ex- that the initiative was not to be taken pect anything else to happen but what by the police? The keeping of these he had described. They ought to make houses was declared to be illegal under them the protectors of the public, and the Summary Jurisdiction Act; but not the institutors of prosecutions. there was not one word in regard to the institution of proceedings; and if the police were not to initiate who was to? Where was there any person but the police given the power of instituting these proceedings? SIR ROBERT FOWLER (LORD MAYOR) said, he did not see how they could exclude the police altogether from these cases. THE CHAIRMAN said, the discussion was going a little wide of the clause, which contained nothing on this subject. SIR ROBERT FOWLER (LORD MAYOR) said, he would not detain the Committee; but he did not see how they could prosecute brothels unless they took the evidence of the police. MR. EDWARD CLARKE said, he hoped that the Home Secretary would not put words into the clause which would exclude the police altogether. It might be proper not to allow them to institute prosecutions; but it would be a very serious thing to exclude them altogether. MR. JAMES STUART said, he was altogether opposed to giving the police the power of instituting proceedings against these women. It would be placing an unfair temptation in the way of the police; and he could not help suspecting that those who had the control of the Force must feel very great doubt and hesitation with regard to putting these powers in their hands. He was altogether opposed to the police instituting anything against brothels and prostitutes. MR. GRAY said, he did not wish to pursue the discussion at that moment; but he ventured to say that there might be some few people here and there who would not think the late Home Secretary's statement so absolutely convincing as he seemed to think. For his part, he had always held the opinion that the police were an exceedingly useful and able body of men; but in stating what he Mr. Molloy SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, he could answer that at once. MR. GRAY pointed out that if the right hon. Gentleman could do so it would shorten the discussion materially. All he was anxious for was that the police should have nothing to do with these matters. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, the police were not prosecutors at all, and when they did do so it was only for general convenience. They were not supposed to prosecute in any case, and their doing so was only for convenience. If it was desired to exclude them absolutely, then some words should be put in to that effect. He would have no objection whatever to that course. He had always thought it better to keep them out of these matters. He was not responsible for the actual drafting of the clause; but certainly the object of it was, not to alter the existing prosecuting authorities, who were the Local Authorities, but to enable the magistrates to exercise a summary jurisdiction. Clause agreed to. PART III. Definitions and Miscellaneous. Clause 13 (Definitions) agreed to. Clause 14 (Application of Act to Scotland). THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Sir R. ASSHETON CROSS) proposed to omit line 34-namely-"The expression 'Attorney General' shall mean Lord) Advocate." Amendment agreed to. Clause, as amended, agreed to. MR. HASTINGS proposed, in page 7, line 9, after the word "Act," to insert the words "or any case of indecent assault." Amendment agreed to. THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Sir R. ASSHETON CROSS) proposed to insert, after the word "prosecution," in line 10, the words "in the same manner as in cases of felony." Amendment agreed to. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 16 (Repeal of enactments in Schedule) agreed to. THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Sir R. ASSHETON CROSS) moved, after Clause 14, to insert the following clause : (Saving clause as to liability to other criminal proceedings.) "This Act shall not exempt any person from any proceeding for an offence which is punishable at common law, or under any Act of Parliament other than this Act, so that a person be not punished twice for the same offence." Clause brought up, and read the first and second time, and added to the Bill. New Clause (Vexatious indictments,) -(Sir R. Assheton Cross,)-brought up, and read the first and second time, and added to the Bill. THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Sir R. ASSHETON CROSS) proposed the new clause (Power of Search). He simply wished to move the second reading in order that it might appear on the Orders. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause be read a second time." Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next. TELEGRAPH ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. (Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Hibbert.) [BILL 121.] THIRD READING. Order for Third Reading read, and discharged. MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCE proposed that the Bill be re-committed in order to introduce two new clauses. The object of the clauses he wished to introduce was that the initials of the Metropolitan districts should not be counted as words, and that the names of streets, gardens, squares, parks, crescents, crosses, lanes, and so forth, and the names of islands, bays, harbours, levels, and so forth, should be counted as one word only. end of the Question, the words "and in Amendment proposed, to add, at the respect of two new clauses." — (Mr. Alderman W. Lawrence.) Question proposed, "That those words be there added." MR. SHAW LEFEVRE said, it was quite impossible for him to accept either of the alterations suggested by the hon. Gentleman. Question put, and negatived. Main Question put, and agreed to. Bill re-committed in respect of Clause 2; considered in Committee. (In the Committee.) MR. SHAW LEFEVRE proposed to omit from line 30 "1d. for each additional two words, or parts of words," for the purpose of inserting "d. for each additional word." Amendment proposed, In Clause 2, line 30, to leave out the words "Id. for each additional two words, or parts of words," and insert "d. for each additional word."-(Mr. Shaw Lefevre.) Amendment agreed to. Bill reported, with an Amendment; as amended, considered. MR. SHAW LEFEVRE hoped the House would now read the Bill the third time. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time."--(Mr. Shaw Lefevre.) MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCE hoped the right hon. Gentleman the late Postmaster General (Mr. Shaw Lefevre) would consider whether names of streets should not in all cases be charged as one word only. He could Motion made, and Question proposed, not see why Piccadilly, which had 10 "That the Bill be re-committed in re-letters in it, should be charged as one spect of Clause 2."-(Mr. Shaw Lefevre.) word, while Pall Mall, in which there were only eight letters, should be charged as two words. The refusal to make the alterations he suggested would cause great irritation to many persons. Motion agreed to. Bill read the third time, and passed. EAST INDIA (ARMY PENSIONS DEFICIENCY) BILL.-[BILL 255.] (Sir Henry Holland, Colonel Walrond.) SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."(Sir Henry Holland.) MR. ONSLOW said, this was a very important Bill, affecting, if he mistook not, the Revenue of India. It was only delivered that day, and as hon. Members had not had an opportunity of examining it, perhaps the hon. Baronet would explain its provisions. The THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Sir HENRY HOLLAND) said, a certain number of pensions, which fell due before the new arrangement with regard to pensions was made in 1884, had to be paid by this country. pensions which had fallen due since. that arrangement were annually paid by India. For the pensions which fell due before 1884, there was no more money coming from India; but there was about £1,600,000 in hand to meet them. When that sum was exhausted, the pensions would form a charge upon the Army Vote. That would raise the Army Vote very unfairly, and therefore it had been thought right to borrow from the Consolidated Fund a sum of money to lighten the Estimates. The charge would cease when the pensions came to an end. Annual accounts would be presented to Parliament. Motion agreed to. solidated Fund in respect of certain Indian Army Pensions. Resolution to be reported upon Monday next. House adjourned at twenty minutes after Three o'clock till Monday next. HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, 3rd August, 1885. MINUTES.] - PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading— Patent visional Order (No. 2)* (188); Metropolitan Board of Works (Money)* (209), and passed. Withdrawn-Scottish and Irish Peerages (10). SCOTTISH AND IRISH PEERAGES BILL.-(No. 10.) (The Lord Waveney.) BILL WITHDRAWN. LORD WAVENEY, in asking the leave of the House to withdraw the Bill, said, that it had been introduced in order to provide a remedy for the anomalies that arose from the present system of electing Representative Peers for Scotland and Ireland. sidered it a great and positive evil that the two Kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland should be represented by a close corporation in that House. The question of Peerages in their Lordships' He con Bill read a second time, and committed House had been considered on various for Monday next. occasions; but it had never been fairly considered in regard to the important Under the point raised in the Bill. existing arrangement, all the Peers elected generally belonged to one side in politics-that, namely, of the majority, or the Conservative Party. Peers who belonged to the minority, or the Liberal Party, had no chance of being represented, or of getting into the House, except by being created Peers of the Clause, as amended, agreed to. LORD MOUNT-TEMPLE moved an Amendment, providing that the byelaws of the Conservancy for the regulation of traffic on the Thames should not allow house-boats or other boats to remain for more than 48 hours at anchor United Kingdom, in which case they | Conservators power to hear complaints had to sink the old historic names by as to unreasonable delay of boats in which they were known and dis- front of the property of riparian owners. tinguished. That was That was an unsatisfacAmendment agreed to. tory state of matters, which was never intended, and which required to be remedied. He recognized the impossibility of getting the Bill through that Session, and therefore thought it more respectful to their Lordships to formally withdraw it, than to allow it to remain any longer on the Paper. He thought it would be well, however, if their Lord-in front of a residence. At present, a ships were to bear in mind and see whe- serious nuisance was caused to owners of ther a system could not be devised that houses on the banks of the Thames by would do away with the existing ano- boats being moored for weeks and malies in connection with the Peerages and months in front of these residences. of Ireland and Scotland. The constitu- At regattas and on other occasions the tion of the House of Lords was at pre-public would be deprived of much of sent a subject of popular discussion; and their present enjoyment if arbitrary he thought that made it all the more power were bestowed on occupiers of desirable that their Lordships them- houses to prevent any temporary loiterselves, and of their own accord, shoulding at their banks. apply themselves to the remedying of more than forty-eight hours.")-(The Lord Mount-Temple.) any defects that were found to exist, in-line 7, after ("ground") to insert ("for Amendment moved, in Clause 6, page 3, stead of waiting until pressure was brought to bear on them from without. Their Lordships would recollect a very remarkable gathering that recently took place in Hyde Park. He never saw a more good-natured assembly or a more representative body of men; but, under the influence of popular excitement, a good-humoured crowd of that description might easily degenerate into an unruly mob. As he had said, the evil was a very serious one, and ought to be dealt with by their Lordships. He would give Notice that he would bring the Bill forward again next year. LORD BRAMWELL maintained that the owners of these boats had no right to loiter opposite to the residences of riparian owners at all, and on that ground he opposed the Amendment. It would be an intolerable nuisance for a boat-especially a house-boat, with, perhaps, many persons on board-to stop in front of a gentleman's garden for 48 hours. They might as well give gipsies power to camp for that time on the high road in front of a dwellinghouse. LORD HOUGHTON said, he thought their Lordships were indebted to his THE EARL OF WEMYSS also opnoble Friend (Lord Waveney) for call-posed the Amendment. He would point ing attention to this important subject. out to their Lordships that there might He hoped his noble Friend would carry be a succession of boats each staying 48 out his intimation, and that the Bill hours. would be brought forward again at the first opportunity. THE EARL OF ABINGDON said, he supported the Amendment in the inte Bill (by leave of the House) with- rests of riparian owners, a committee of drawn. whom had come to the conclusion that they would rather have a summary jurisdiction power of removing boats RIVER THAMES (No. 2) BILL.-(No. 218.) | after 48 hours than be left, as at pre (The Lord Mount-Temple.) REPORT. Amendments reported (according to Order). THE EARL OF ABINGDON moved an Amendment in Clause 4, giving the sent, with the alternative of a Common Law action, which, in all probability, would not be tried until months after the order for removal had ceased to be of any practical benefit. LORD MOUNT-TEMPLE explained that house-boats were used by artists, lovers of nature who would have no en- | Committee-Secretary for Scotland [242]—R.r joyment if they were not permitted to loiter. As it was, these boats were often moored opposite a house for as long a period as three months. All the riparians knew very well that they had better have the boats removed at the end of 48 hours. LORD BRAMWELL said, he thought the owners of boats ought to be liable to a penalty if they stayed opposite a house Committee - Report-Criminal Law Amendusent Report Elementary Education Provisional QUESTIONS. -0 PIERS AND HARBOURS (IRELAND)— MR. MAURICE BROOKS asked the Whether he is aware that, in certain Financial Secretary to the Treasury, conditions of the wind, considerable avoidable inconvenience is caused to the Irish travelling public, including numerous Members of Parliament, by the lack of protection and shelter from rain and storm when shipping and landing as passengers between Kingstown and Holyhead; whether he is aware that the contractors for the carriage of Her Majesty's Mails between Holyhead and Kingstown have repeatedly applied for works to be carried out at the Carlisle Pier, Kingstown, and the Royal Mail Packet Jetty, Holyhead, which they state to be necessary for the protection of the Mail Packets, and for the shelter and convenient landing and shipping of Mails and passengers; and, whether he can state what steps he proposes to take to meet the wants complained of? THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Sir HENRY HOLLAND): Sir, no complaints have been made, except by the Packet Company, of the lack of protection to passengers at this harbour; and, so far as I am aware, there is no obligation upon the Government, either by their contracts or otherwise, to provide improved accommodation for pas sengers there. As regards the second part of the Question, I answered a similar one a week ago relating to Holyhead. In the case of Kingstown, the Packet Company, if they think there is any Works in Dublin, in whom the harbour risk, should apply to the Board of is vested, and who would, no doubt, ascertain whether the present state of things affords reasonable security to the mail packets. |