now we will see it in time. Could you very quickly, you or your sociates, give us an idea of what that technical analysis intends to › so that I will know what areas you are in?

Mr. MEANY. Mr. Ruttenberg can do that.

Mr. ALGER. Just briefly.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. This analysis goes through in more detail the oblem of the impact of trade upon employment opportunities both om the export and the import side. It goes into more detail on the oblem of the relationship of costs, labor costs, material costs, costs capital.

Mr. ALGER. Do you take specific industries and products in this alysis?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes; there is an analysis in here, interestingly, of industries that are affected in the main by import competition. Mr. ALGER. Do we have autos and textiles in there?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Textiles are in. Autos are not. That is, in the pporting memorandum. We do have accompanying it another docuent which does talk about autos and shoes, for example, that the llar impact of imports of autos and automobile parts was at a peak about $400 million in 1959 and dropped to a little less than $200 llion in 1961 because of the great degree of American efficiency in mpetition through the development of the compact auto.

That analysis is contained in here. There is also an analysis conned of the international textile and apparel agreement which you ve already referred to. Then there is a detailed discussion of the justment assistance programs, both as it affects the worker as it es the firm and the industry.

There is an analysis of the problems relating to the Common Mart as well as those relating to the less developed countries of the orld, as well as some discussion of the problem of international fair or standards and particularly how that subject might be dealt th in this legislation, H.R. 9900.

Mr. ALGER. Mr. Meany, I want to tell you something that no matter w I may disagree with you, and goodness knows I do in this bill and at your statement brings to us, because I really do not think you ow what is underlying this bill, honestly, yet I want to thank you, cause I believe you and your associates have brought certain quesns here, only some of which I have raised, the answers to which, we can get them, will thoroughly turn you against this bill. Thank you.

Mr. MEANY. Mr. Alger, you are going to have witnesses from pracally all of these affected unions. You can get perhaps some of the swers from them.

Mr. ALGER. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Derounian.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. Mr. Meany, do you feel that H.R. 9900 is the only 1 that would improve and increase our foreign trade?

Mr. MEANY. I think that would be too strong a statement. I do not ow. I think the bill is the result of a good deal of study. It meets e general objectives that we have, but I certainly do not say that is the only bill. I do not know.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. I ask you this because I have supported reciprocal de ever since I have been in Congress, even when I was getting

some letters from your union members giving me the devil for voting for it.

I am just wondering whether or not there is some other way to have expanded trade without the minute detail being held in Í.R. 9900.

Mr. MEANY. I do not know. I could not say.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. But if we could, you would also support that kind of legislation?

Mr. MEANY. I think so. Yes. I think we would support any legis lation that would be helpful to our own country's position in the world, and at the same time find some way to help protect our own workers. I do not think we can live alone in this world. I think this is a problem we have to find a solution for.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. A moment ago, Mr. Meany, in response to Mr. Alger's questions, you stated that you did not want to help the Communist cause in the world. I know you have been a fighter against communism, for which I commend you.

Do you feel that we should have a complete alteration of the U.S. policy on trade with the Soviet bloc countries?

tiede w/ CommMr. MEANY. A complete alteration?

Many not fu

Their su for

Mr. DEROUNIAN. In other words, would you favor-
Mr. MEANY. This has nothing to do with this bill.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. I am asking you a question. Would you favor expanded trade with Soviet bloc countries over what we have today! Mr. MEANY. Under no circumstances.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. Do you know, Mr. Meany, that that recommendation together with further recommendations, "The Soviet should be invited to trade with free world countries on the basis of a code of fair practices"-just get that, the Soviets going for a code of fair practices "designed to remove the distortion and disruptions arising from a monopolistic state commerce," have already been made. Do you know where they came from?

Mr. MEANY. Secretary Dillon?

Mr. DEROUNIAN. No; he has not gone quite that far, but give him time. Under Secretary of State Ball was chairman of the secret task force that wrote this report and gave it to the President.

Mr. MEANY. I completely disagree, not only with Assistant Secretary Ball. I completely disagree with the people in the State Department who have an idea that you can have cultural exchanges and in some way benefit from them with American groups and their counterparts in the Soviet Union.

I completely disagree with this whole idea of people exchanges because there are no counterparts, for instance, in the Soviet Union to our organization, nor are there counterparts to any American organization.

I think the people who buy this idea are living in a fool's paradise. There are no cultural groups in the Soviet Union that are free, as our groups are. They are all agents of the state, just as the so-called unions are agents of the state.

So anyone who feels that you have something to gain by trading with the Soviet Union on any basis under the present world circumstances is living in a fool's paradise, in my opinion.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. I congratulate you.

Mr. MEANY. I am in complete disagreement with Mr. Ball on what I just said.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. It so happens that one of your fine unions on Long and, a few weeks ago, when they found out that the equipment y were working on was going to the Soviet Union, stopped working it.

Mr. MEANY. The machinists.

Mr. DEROUNIAN. I thought that took courage and was a wonderful mple to the people of this country. The reason I asked the quesis that I am a little concerned since Under Secretary Ball is going be the principal production manager on this trade program. n answer to a question last Tuesday when I asked him whether or he would favor expanded trade with Soviet countries, he ducked question. He said certainly he did not believe in cutting off trade h Yugoslavia and countries like it.

The bill, itself, just states that the President shall do nothing to ove duties and restrictions of Communist trade and if he determines t he is going to trade further, he will ask advice of one of the appriate agencies. Well, Mr. Ball is going to run the trade program he is probably is going to tell the President, "Expanded trade h the Soviet is all right.'

hat is what concerns me.

Ir. MEANY. I do not think Mr. Ball's observations that you have quoted have been accepted by the President or made part of this gram. That report, I understand, was written some time back. Ir. DEROUNIAN. We have been trying to get a copy of it and we t. They won't release it. The President has it and Mr. Ball uses to release it.

The Committee on the Effect of Imports on Unemployment, chaired by Representative John Dent, of Pennsylvania, has tried to get t report.

They won't give it to them. The Kitchen Committee on Exports Soviet Bloc Countries tried to get it and they can't get it and this mittee can't get it.

But the New York Times got it and I do not expect they will give

Well, I hope you are right, Mr. Meany, that this report does not ct H.R. 9900 at all. But if it did, you can see why I have some

cern.

Ir. MEANY. Yes.

Ir. DEROUNIAN. Thank you very much.

"he CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions of Mr. Meany?

Ir. Karsten.

Hr. KARSTEN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to compliment Mr. Meany his very fine statement. Mr. Meany has been down before this mittee on many occasions, in support of similar legislation.

wonder, Mr. Meany, how many times you have actually come bee the Ways and Means Committee in support of the trade agreents programs?

Ir. MEANY. Well, I personally have come just one or two times, every time this has come up in the last 27 or 26 years we have m on record as favoring the extension of reciprocal trade.

x4

TRA

Mr. KARSTEN. Your statement today was one of the best that I believe any labor organization has ever submitted. I was interested in the discussion about manganese, tin, and bauxite that was referred to a little while ago.

Some of these items, as I understand it, are on the free list. Under the bill, the President would have the authority to continue them on the free list, and in effect, promise that they would remain on the free list. Don't you think that is a very valuable thing for him to have, that authority?

Mr. MEANY. Yes, because of the strategic importance of these materials.

Mr. KARSTEN. A promise to continue them on the free list would assist him in obtaining tariff concessions from other countries, which seems to me to be a very vital part of the bill.

I am also interested in this program, this adjustment program that you discussed. I noticed this morning in the New York Times an article about a plant up in Auburn, N.Y., that recently sold 3,000 air conditioners to a little place called Kuwait, a sheikdom in the Persian Gulf. It is interesting to note that the President of this corporation said that the export potentials for air conditioning are excellent and American industry, because of production and technical advantages holds an edge over competitors in other countries.

I wonder if you feel that is true; that is, that we have an edge over foreign countries?

Mr. MEANY. On manufactured articles? I would say by and large, yes. It is true.

Mr. KARSTEN. You will find some areas now that while overall we have that edge, we may need some financial assistance, to help these areas of our economy to become strong and to become able to compete. I understand that you recommend a more liberal program-more liberal than that proposed by the bill for assistance to workers and concerns that need, that type of assistance.

Mr. MEANY. Yes.

Mr. KARSTEN. I appreciate your coming before the committee, Mr. Meany. I think your statement is excellent. I think that Congress will enact a program along the lines you recommend.

I have one final question. Your union consists of how many people, Mr. Meany?

Mr. MEANY. Individual members?

Mr. KARSTEN. Yes.

Mr. MEANY. About 131⁄2 million.

Mr.KARSTEN. The large rank-and-file membership of your union supports this proposition?

Mr. MEANY. Yes.

Mr. KARSTEN. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions of Mr. Meany? Mr. Meany, I again want to thank you for coming to the committee and to congratulate you on the statement that you made to the commitee. We thank you.

Mr. MEANY. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. I also want to thank Mr. Biemiller and Mr. Ruttenberg for coming.

(The following telegram was received by the committee:) WASHINGTON, D.C., April 5, 1962.

o H. IRWIN,

ief Counsel, House Ways and Means Committee, w House Office Building, Washington, D.C.:

In reply to your wire this is to advise I will not be able to appear on revised te of your schedule because of previous commitments; however, I have studied › statement and testimony presented by President Meany of AFL-CIO before e Ways and Means Committee in behalf of H.R. 9900, proposed Trade Expann Act, under date of March 3–19 and wholeheartedly subscribe to the posin taken by President Meany. In interest of avoiding repetition and unnecarily burdening your committee with duplicate testimony I believe you do t need to reschedule my appearance for a future date.

A. J. HAYES,

International President, International Association of Machinists. The CHAIRMAN. Our next witness is the Honorable Claude Wickard. Mr. Wickard, we, of course, remember you from your assignment Washington as the Secretary of the Department of Agriculture ne few years ago.

We welcome you back to the Ways and Means Committee and you → recognized.

ATEMENT OF HON. CLAUDE R. WICKARD, PUBLIC ADVISER TO HE U.S. DELEGATION TO THE GENEVA TARIFF NEGOTIATIONS Mr. WICKARD. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, it has en over 20 years since I first appeared before this committee. In › intervening years I have become more and more impressed with e great contributions that have been made by this committee to our islative processes.

It is indeed an honor and privilege to again appear before your

mmittee.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, sir.

Mr. WICKARD. Today, as was the case over 20 years ago when I first peared before your committee, I am here to support legislation ich I believe will promote an expansion in international trade. During the past 10 years it has been my privilege to serve as 1 of 12 blic advisers to the Tariff Conference in Geneva which has just npleted its work. As public advisers we were able to see and apeciate at first hand some of the enormous complexities involved in ese negotiations, and to have an intimate look at just how the chinery we now have for carrying on trade negotiations actually rks. Two weeks ago, eight of the public advisers the members of group who were in this country and able to attend-met in Washgton to report to the President our observations on the outcome of tariff conference and our conclusions concerning the need for furer action to reduce trade barriers. It is my honor today to appear ·le Advier to fore this committee on behalf of these public advisers who are: le Mr. Andrew J. Biemiller, director, AFL-CIO Legislative Depart-List

nt.

Mr. Homer L. Brinkley, executive vice president, National Council
Farmer Cooperatives.

Mr. Alfred Ĉ. Neal, president, Committee for Economic Develop

nt.