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crops that have been damaged in this regard, and some suffering that has resulted. There have not been resources to do very much about it. There would be more to work with under this bill.

Mr. ULLMAN. I have had some commodity producers from my area who have had cases before the Tariff Commission, and the problem is that these people want to come under the self-help program and establish marketing agreements.

When they do, they would like to qualify under section 22 of the Agricultural Adjustment Act. I would like to get from you the statement that your endorsement of this program would in no way hold you back from seeking the kind of protection that these people might need under section 22-speaking now of special commodities. Secretary FREEMAN. Each of these cases obviously has to be eval

supply.

Management program

Maintedated on its merits. But it follows quite logically that in those in

stances where we have supply management as a necessity in connection with income of agricultural producers, we, by the same token, have to do something in connection with potential imports that might very well wreck any supply-management program.

Mr. ULLMAN. I appreciate that statement. I have one further question. To what extent will timber and lumber, which come under your department, be affected by this bill in your estimation?

We have problems, as you well know, in lumber imports into this country, and there are related problems. There are reasons why foreign competitors can better compete with our own lumber industry. But in your opinion, will this bill affect the situation in lumber, in your opinion?

Secretary FREEMAN. No: I think the situation as it now exists will continue. The provisions of the bill for various negotiations that might be called for would include timber and the adjustments that might be called for as a result of any decision that would be reached would reach this area as well.

I do not think there are any special provisions one way or another in connection with timber.

Mr. ULLMAN. The situation which we have now, which is a serious situation, will not be adversely affected, then, by any provision in this bill?

Secretary FREEMAN. No, sir; not in my judgment.

Mr. ULLMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Byrnes will inquire.

Mr. BYRNES. Mr. Secretary, I would like to get a little factual information on some of the figures contained in your statement. We constantly hear the figure used of a billion dollars of agricultural exports in conjunction with our general world trade picture and the importance of expanding it and so forth.

I appreciate your breaking this down in your statement to show that it is really $3,400 million that are in commercial transactions.

Secretary FREEMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. But of this $3.4 billion, what are the principal agricultural items that make that up? Can you tell me?

Secretary FREEMAN. Cotton, tobacco, wheat, feed grains, soybeans, rice, tallow, hides and skins, fruits, and specialty vegetable and fruit products

Mr. BYRNES. On the fruits and hides, would your fruits constitute very much?

Secretary FREEMAN. The fruits?

Mr. BYRNES. Yes.

Importance Secretary FREEMAN. A rather substantial and growing figure. I dou's frant not have either the percentage or dollar figure in mind, but I would XP be happy to submit it for the record. It is several hundred million dollars.

Mr. BYRNES. I know that we are constantly importuned by our friends, from the State of Washington, I know, on the problem they get into in the exportation of some of their fruits in that just at their marketing season very often the British or some other area that they might be exporting to says, "We can't take them at this time of the year."

So it is the same thing as putting on a quota or having extremely high tariff walls.

Secretary FREEMAN. I have had the privilege of discussing this with the appropriate authorities in both Great Britain and also in Brussels. We recently made some some progress in accomplishing some adjustments in their provisions. You are very right, this kind of restriction which would prevent our commodities from going on their market at the same time as theirs comes to market exists in a number of countries, and are the kind of things that we constantly try to adjust.

Mr. BYRNES. I understand that that is rather a common practice Seasonal in some of the European countries, that they have certain seasonal r quotas.

At their marketing season or approaching that marketing season, they cut off imports of comparable items in order to create a shortage in their market which will, of course, bring the price up when their product comes in, when it is harvested.

Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct.

Mr. BYRNES. They would have a more favorable market for it. But the process also is, as I understand it, to, in effect, exclude the importation, and exclude, in many cases, our products, because our harvesting season falls just at the time they have their quotas on. Secretary FREEMAN. There are some Wisconsin-Minnesota apples that get affected by this, too, once in a while, Mr. Congressman. Mr. BYRNES. I know it has been called to my attention. When you mentioned fruit, I immediately thought of it, of this restriction that has nothing to do with duties, and which is completely behind the wall.

How do we get them to avoid that? We are not using that technique.

Secretary FREEMAN. I think we do some of it, probably, too, but what we do is sit across the table and try to get them not to do it. In order to get them not to do it, on occasion it is helpful to be able to offer them something so they won't do it.

Mr. BYRNES. I wish you would submit for the record, though, a table showing, in dollars to the rounded figure that you can, the items that constitute this $3.4 billion.

Secretary FREEMAN. Yes, sir.

hurt us

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I would be happy to respond to your earlier inquiry, about the fruit and related items that are of substantial export value, $254

million.

Less than 1 percent of this value moves under Government programs. These products were about 18 percent of U.S. commercial sales in 1960.

It included $107 million fresh fruits, $57 million canned fruits, $42 million fruit juices, and $41 million dried fruits.

Mr. BYRNES. If we could have for the record the basic breakdown, I would appreciate it.

Secretary FREEMAN. Yes, sir.

(The information to be supplied follows:)

U.S. agricultural exports under Government-financed programs, exports outside specified Government-financed programs, and total agricultural exports, value, July-June 1960-61

Gov & non gar

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[In millions of dollars]

Total agri-
cultural

Total agri

cultural

exports

outside

Total agricultural

specified Government

exports

programs

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Evaporated and condensed.

Vegetable oil shortening, 100 percent vegetable oil.
Oilcake and meal..

Feeds and fodders (excluding oilcake and meal).

Milk:

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1 Included here are exports under Public Law 480 (titles I, II, and III) and exports under sec. 402 of the mutual security program.

2 Agricultural exports outside specified Government programs (sales for dollars) include, in addition to unassisted commercial transaction, shipments of some commodities with governmental assistance in the form of (1) extension of credit for relatively short periods, (2) sales of Government-owned commodities at less than domestic market prices, and (3) export payments in cash or in kind.

3 Less than $50,000.

Mr. BYRNES. On what of these exports that are in this $3.5 billion is there in the nature of an export subsidy, on the item that does move into the export market? Cotton carries an export subsidy, does it not?

Secretary FREEMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. What is the export subsidy that we pay?

Secretary FREEMAN. 8.5 cents a pound on cotton.

Mr. BYRNES. So our commercial trade in that, in order to get it, we really have to subsidize that much in order to get that market? Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct; yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNES. What is it in tobacco?

Secretary FREEMAN. Nothing.

Mr. BYRNES. Of course, on tobacco we have a complete restriction, don't we?

Secretary FREEMAN. No.

Mr. BYRNES. On seed going out? We fixed that up so that you can't sell tobacco seed abroad, can you, so that we don't create a situation that is competitive.

Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct.

Mr. BYRNES. On wheat, what is our export subsidy on that?
Secretary FREEMAN. It is about 55 cents a bushel.

Mr. BYRNES. 50 cents a bushel in order to create this export market that makes up the 3.5.

Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct.

Mr. BYRNES. What about feed grains?

Secretary FREEMAN. At the moment no subsidy on most of our feed grain exports.

Mr. BYRNES. What about soybeans?
Secretary FREEMAN. No subsidy.

Mr. BYRNES. Rice?

Secretary FREEMAN. It is about a third of the selling price of rice.
I do not have the exact figure.

Mr. BYRNES. We subsidized it to the extent of about 33% percent?
Secretary FREEMAN. Yes, sir.

Subsidy

Mr. BYRNES. It seems to me that that is a factor that we have to atree. fos least recognize when we talk about our $3.5 billion of export tradea XP and our dependence on this export, that we only can depend on it if us we have this outright subsidy.

Then I suppose you can't even depend on that if they are going to have restrictions on these commodities entering their country. Secretary FREEMAN. Actually, the price support on the wheat and feed grains, for example, in the Common Market countries, is substantially higher than ours.

Mr. BYRNES. I was going to come to that, Mr. Secretary. Let us defer that for just 1 minute.

On the imports that we receive, imports of agricultural products, I understand your figures are $1.8 billion.

Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct.

Mr. BYRNES. I wonder if you could give us a breakdown on that. I am not going to take the time now to have you list them, but I do have a question about some of them. It is my understanding that some of them, really, when, in turn, are putting into our surplus, our Community Credit Corporation supplies, or if we are not putting the identical kernel, it is replacing an American kernel that would otherwise be there.

Let me inquire on a couple of items. Will you correct me if my figures are wrong?

Secretary FREEMAN. We have a list of agricultural imports, which we will submit for the record. Sugar, meats, dutiable cattle, vege

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ag prot

(1 duty free

table oils, oil bearing materials, tobacco, apparel wool, fruits and preparations, vegetable and preparations, grains and preparations, dairy products, cotton.

Complementary agricultural imports including coffee, crude rubber, cocoa, and bananas.

Mr. BYRNES. I would like to know which ones of those are duty free, if you would supply that for the record. I think as we get into coffee, bananas and some of these items which we know we import, it does not enter into this trade negotiation program because we do not have any duty on them anyway, nor any kind of restrictions on

them.

I think it would be important that we get a picture of what agricultural items there are, if we are just going to talk about agriculture for a moment, what agricultural items we have duties on here that might be restrictive and what we have overseas that might be restrictive. I think we get kind of a picture which would show that we have very little duties and none on a good share of this agricultural importation.

Secretary FREEMAN. That is correct. This, I think, is generally misunderstood. I know it is in Europe. We have a table that_Ĭ might call attention to of selected agricultural products covering 75 percent, at least, of the agriculture of the named countries, and the average tariff levels.

Our average tariff level is 8 percent. This would be well down the line, very near the bottom, of the list of major countries. (The above mentioned material is as follows:)

(or imports bay prod

Imports of agricultural commodities which are on the duty-free list

Tariff par. No.

1606(A).

1755..

Cattle for breeding.

Horses for breeding.

[In thousands of dollars]

Commodity

Sausage casings, bladders, etc., from sheep, lamb, and goats.
Sausage casings, etc., from other than sheep, lamb, and goats.
Casein or lactarene and mixtures.

1960 value

19. 1627.

Bones, crude, steamed, ground, ash, etc.

1796

Bees wax, crude.

1732.

Tung oil..

Palm oil 1

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6,247

5, 391 8,461

4,709

17,947

3,269

2,276

4,472

5, 011

2,166

1,667

8, 679

1,800

4,411

1.166

1,668

2,271

1.426

63,471

2,494

78.639

1.256

2,214

1,675

4.866

4.046

18.053

10,532

2,947

21.530

5,697

16, 892 3,273 1,397

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