some apprehension. Not long ago, in the House of Lords, the noble Earl stated that Famagousta might, at no great expense, be made available for the reception of a certain number of large vessels of war, but that it would be very necessary to construct protecting fortifications. Now, he would venture to predict-[Mr. WARTON: Don't.]-yes; in spite of the hon. and learned Member for Bridport, he would venture to predict that if this Harbour of Famagousta remained in the hands of the British Government, and particularly if it remained in the hands of some other Ministry than the present, and actuated by the motives which seemed to influence Her Majesty's late Advisers, they would shortly see a repetition of the great failure of fortifications which they had seen in the Island of Alderney. If, in spite of their experience in the Island of Alderney, they should risk a similar failure in Cyprus, the cost of the Island of Cyprus to this country would be increased, and that was another reason why they should reject this Vote. The right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, he hoped, would permit some subordinate Member of his Government to inform the House how, and by what means, it was that the Earl of Kimberley proposed to reduce the charge for Cyprus from £90,000 to £40,000 a-year. If it was not done by subtracting the interest on the Guaranteed Loans to Turkey, it would have a more satisfactory appearance; but it would not remove his feeling as to the utter want of economy in the manner in which the Island of Cyprus was governed. The scale of Government was monstrous. The proportion which the salaries of the Governor, the Chief Secretary, and the whole official Staff of the Island bore to the Revenue was simply ridiculous. When he read in the last Report that "the sanitation" of the towns was receiving considerable attention, those words struck him as being remarkably significant. In matters of sanitation, money went out with great rapidity. Scientific sanitation was nowhere inexpensive, and nowhere could it be less inexpensive than in an island where there were more goats than people. When Lord Salisbury most wisely abandoned, in his far greater knowledge of geography, the proposition his Leader had made as to the reason why the Government had taken over that Island, he stated that the great advantage to this country of the possession of Cyprus would be in connection with Egypt; and, no doubt, in time to come, they would hear a great deal about the immense benefit Cyprus had rendered to Her Majesty's Government during the present Egyptian campaign. Well, having the Island in their hands, if the Government did not make use of it he should censure such neglect, and the fact of their making use of it did not condone for one moment the means by which the Island was taken into our possession. And let him say that no single operation within the memory of any Member of that House, probably, had ever been conducted in the East of Europe without free use being made of adjacent territory for occupation by the belligerent of the West. There would have been no difficulty experienced by the English Government, if engaged in hostile operations in Egypt, as they were now, in obtaining standing ground which they could have used for hospital or other purposes, even if we had not had possession of Cyprus. That was the case in the Crimean War and in Greece. The vassalage by which we held the Island of Cyprus was of no advantage whatever. He had carefully noticed what had been done of late. He might be officially corrected; but he was under the impression that no British troops had made anything like a permanent landing or occupation of Cyprus in connection with the Egyptian Expedition. There had only been a rendezvous of British vessels such as took place at Suda. He hoped, therefore, the great mistake would not be made of supposing that the possession of Cyprus had been one of the advantageous incidents of the operations against Egypt. He doubted-more than doubted-the policy which had led to the occupation of the Island, and he felt very much dissatisfied at the absence of successful negotiations with the Porte for compounding the tribute, and at the absence of successful operations in Cyprus for bringing down the expenditure of the Government to a very much lower level. For these reasons, and because now and at all times he denied that the policy of the Anglo-Turkish Convention had been, or ever could be, beneficial to this country, he asked the Committee to reject the Vote. MR. EVELYN ASHLEY said, that, | Arnold) for not laying that Report upon though the hon. Member had imputed the Table before now. If it had been such designs to the Government, and possible, the Report would have been had said that they changed the Under laid on the Table before this discussion Secretaries of State for the Colonies to-day; but they had been unable to do so frequently because, having such a so in consequence of their not having rebad case, they thought it desirable, from ceived Sir Robert Biddulph's observatime to time, to present a new cover, he tions upon it. That brought him (Mr. presented himself to reply to two or Evelyn Ashley) to the speech of the right three points the hon. Member had raised. hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, in It was not his policy, nor would he introducing the Budget, when he said he follow the hon. Member into the larger believed that the payment for Cyprus questions of the policy of retaining the would only amount to £40,000 a-year. Ísland, or of its utility. The hon. Mem- If the hon. Member would follow the ber found fault with the Government Estimate for the ensuing year, he would for not having attempted to compound find that the payment would only be with the Porte for the payment of the £27,000. The Revenue was estimated tribute. The House had been informed at £76,000, and if they added the tribute last year that proposals had been made to that it would make up a total of with that view. But, surely, the act of £219,500. The deficit for the coming compounding was not so desirable a year would be about £43,000; but he thing in itself that they should pay was happy to say that if the proposal more than the thing was worth. The suggested to them by Mr. Fairfield in reason they had not compounded with his Report, which the hon. Member the Porte was because the Porte had would have an opportunity of considering asked for a composition which was during the Recess, were carried out, the thought far above the proper price. expenditure, including the tribute, would When the Porte showed itself more be reduced to something like £205,000, reasonable, then, he had no doubt, the which would then cause their payment, Colonial Office would entertain the ques- in respect of Cyprus, to reach only the tion again. At the same time, while, amount of £27,000 or £28,000. The to a large extent, the tribute money was payment they were asking the Committee being used for the payment of the to sanction to-day was a payment on acGuaranteed Loan, it would be a losing count of the deficits of past years. He game on our part to pay down a lump would only give his hon. Friend round sum. Then it was asked why they figures; but since they had occupied did not assimilate the Government of Cyprus the total receipts had been Cyprus to that of the Ionian Islands. £612,823. and the payments had been He (Mr. Evelyn Ashley) could not say £426,709, leaving an excess of receipts of his own knowledge what the Govern- over expenditure of £186,114. Therement of the Ionian Islands might be; fore, he would point out to his hon. but this he would say-that Her Ma- Friend that if there was no tribute in jesty's Government had thought it not the matter these figures would represent only right, but absolutely necessary, to a very handsome balance, and would provide a Government for Cyprus that show that the administration of the was infinitely superior to a Turkish Island had not been one that could be Administration. He could only say found fault with. But now came the that if his hon. Friend (Mr. Court- tribute of £92,440 a-year, which, added ney) did last Session give what was up for the period they had been in poscalled a pledge that the Colonial Office session of Cyprus, made a total of nearly would march in that direction and at- £280,000. When they deducted from tempt to improve the administration in that the £186,000, it left a deficit for the way of expense, the Colonial Office which the Committee was now asked tohad amply carried out that pledge. day to vote £90,000. Now, he would The admirable Report by Mr. Fairfield only just remark as to the point his hon. would, he hoped-indeed he was sure-be Friend the Member for Salford (Mr. the starting-point of a considerable re- Arthur Arnold) had touched on about duction in the expenditure of the Island. the expenses of administration. He did The Government owed an apology to the not know whether the hon. Member was hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Arthur aware that for the future the salary of doubted whether we could manage to extract sufficient money from the Island to pay its expenses with justice to the inhabitants. Cyprus was not a very fruitful or a very productive Island, and if we managed to make it pay its expenses we should have reached a very satisfac Old Man of the Sea. We could not hand it over to the Turks, for it would not be fair to the people; and whilst we retained it he was afraid we must lose the Governor was, at his own request, to be only £4,000 a-year. This, he ventured to say, was a very reasonable salary, and they owed their thanks to Sir Robert Biddulph for having consented to such a reduction. Without going into the question of the policy of the annexation of Cyprus, he would just remind the Com-tory point. The Island was a kind of mittee that there had recently been some very bad harvests in the Island, which would account for the Revenue not coming up to the Estimate. When the hon. Member read the Report of Mr. Fairfield, he (Mr. Evelyn Ashley) trusted that he would take the same sanguine view that he did. A prosperous year in the cultivation of the vine, which was double the importance of any other cereal in the Island, would benefit the whole condition of the country. He could assure his hon. Friend that the Colonial Office was not neglecting the subject, and that they felt that this £90,000 was very much too large a sum to ask the House to vote for Cyprus. He believed that was the last occasion on which so large a sum would be asked for. SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL said, the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken had made too good a defence-he had proved too much. He had shown that they could not get rid of the Vote while they held the Island. He (Sir George Campbell) was afraid that the sanguine estimate they had heard described could not be carried out to the advantage of the Island while it was burdened with this enormous tribute to the Turk. This payment was one from which the Island received no benefit whatever not a single penny of it was available for the purposes of Cyprus; and as long as we held the Island we were bound, in justice, to pay this tribute to Turkey our selves for our possession of this place of arms, or whatever they might like to call it. The Under Secretary of State for the Colonies seemed to think that, by improved administration, we might manage to get a surplus out of the Revenue. Well, he (Sir George Campbell) had not paid much attention to the administration of Cyprus; but he had paid some attention to the administration of our other Colonies, and he found that some of them did not pay their own expenses. It was true that some did pay their own expenses; but his opinion of Cyprus was that, if it did so, it would be a very singular Colony indeed. He very much money. He, therefore, earnestly hoped that Her Majesty's Government would get rid of it when they found someone who would take it, and in whose hands it would not suffer. Until they did do so, he thought they ought to be content to pay this money. MR. LABOUCHERE said, that whenever they got within a measurable distance of the end of the Estimates the House got impatient. Under the circumstances, the hon. Member (Mr. Arthur Arnold) must be thanked for having made a speech on the matter. He (Mr. Labouchere) trusted this Vote might never be allowed to pass without a protest from the Radical Benches, in order that the memory might be kept green of the monstrous and absurd policy that led to the acquisition of Cyprus. They were told that the Revenue was likely to increase; but that was stated last year. It was then said that it was too bad to protest or vote against this proposal, because the expenditure had already been incurred. That was precisely the answer that the Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Courtney) gave last year, so that although the Under Secretaries of State for the Colonies changed their arguments did not change. It appeared to him that they never would have an opportunity of entering a protest against this Vote if they were to accept that stereotyped argument of the Colonial Secretary for the time being. He had no doubt if his hon. Friend the present Under Secretary of State for the Colonies rose to some higher Office by next year, the new Under Secretary who took his place would say the same thing. His hon. Friend (Mr. Arthur Arnold) had said that greater economy should be practised in Cyprus, and that by such means they would be able to avoid some portion of this enormous payment the Committee was now called upon to make. He did not agree with his hon. Friend in that MR. LABOUCHERE: I want to buy this £90,000 a-year, and not Cyprus. I do not think Cyprus is worth 90,000 pence. MR. E. STANHOPE said, the hon. Member's desire appeared to be to buy up the tribute and then abandon Cyprus. MR. LABOUCHERE: Yes; to the Greeks. statement. We had no right to raise | just sat down, and that was the part in taxes beyond the sum that Turkey had which he had suggested that we should raised in the Island by taxation, and if acquire the Island of Cyprus. He was any reduction were made in the expen- inclined at one time to say that it was diture let the Cypriotes have the benefit of no use at all to us; but now he had of it. As to the tribute, we might, he suggested that we should buy it. thought, make a bargain with the Turks with regard to it. The tribute was £90,000 a-year; but of that £50,000 ayear went against the guaranteed loans of 1855. There remained, therefore, about £40,000 a-year, and his belief was, looking at the impecuniosity of Turkey, that if Lord Dufferin were allowed to offer him £300,000 or £400,000 in ready money, Turkey would give up its right to the tribute in a moment. He believed that all the more because, if he could believe the newspapers, he saw that this impecunious person, the Turk, was now borrowing money at 50 or 60 per cent, which was the price he usually paid for it. But he (Mr. Labouchere) was not sorry we had to pay this £90,000 a-year, because he believed that in the end it would save us a great deal more money, for the reason that it would be a standing monument as to the folly of having Conservatives in power. Hon. Members who supported the present Government would every year be able to say to their constituents"You, gentlemen, have to pay a portion of this £90,000 a-year, which was involved in putting the Conservatives in power; therefore, never put them in power again, but elect us." He thought the argument was a good one, and he really thought, in the long run, the possession of Cyprus would save the country a great deal of money. It would do so if the constituencies only took this advice, because he had not the slightest doubt that if the Conservatives were again in power they would not have to pay £90,000 a-year, but £999,000 a-year for some other folly of that sort. Therefore, let this Cyprus Vote remain on record, let them every year protest against the Vote and renew this discussion, and every year let it go forth to the people that they were paying £90,000 a-year for a wretched, miserable, pestiferous Island, bought by the Conservatives when they boasted "that they had come back to England with peace with honour." MR. E. STANHOPE said, he could not help taking notice of part of the speech of the hon. Gentleman who had Mr. Labouchere MR. E. STANHOPE said, he did not think the present was a good opportunity of going back to the question as to what should be done with Cyprus. He thought that when the whole matter was brought up, there were some choice cuttings from the speeches of the Home Secretary which could be used. The Island of Cyprus was just now being very largely used by Her Majesty's Forces. ["No, no!"] Well, it was being used, and he (Mr. E. Stanhope) certainly did not wish to prevent its being used when required by Her Majesty's Forces by any discussion in that House, which would raise up a desire amongst hon. Gentlemen opposite to renew the discussions that took place two years ago. He should say that Cyprus was a very convenient basis for the operations that were going on in Egypt-[No, no!"] Well, that was a matter of opinion-["Certainly!"]—but if it should appear that Her Majesty's Government required a sanitorium and a place where reserves could be accumulated, Cyprus would be found of great convenience. He hoped it would not be required as a sanitorium during this campaign; but the experience of the campaign might possibly justify some further remarks upon the subject. MR. GLADSTONE said, he did not think there was anything before the Committee at the present time which would warrant any expression of opinion as to whether Cyprus was of any appreciable value or not to Her Majesty's Forces in regard to the military operations in Egypt. The Government were certainly not prepared to admit that up to the present time anything had occurred which would lead, so far as he knew, any of those who sat on the Treasury Bench to retract what they MR. WARTON said, it was always said in former years in regard to to him a matter of great gratification to Cyprus. He was really anxious that listen to the hon. Member for Salford should be understood without, at the (Mr. Arthur Arnold), because he never same time, saying anything which was forgot himself. The hon. Member told likely to raise debate or unnecessarily the Committee he did not wish to annul stir up the embers of the old controversy, the Convention, as though it was a matwhich might not be dead, but which ter of any importance whether the hon. need not be revived at this moment. It Member for Salford wished to annul the might with greater advantage be revived Convention or not. It was not of the after the Committee had seen what the slightest importance, because the hon. experience of the next few months pro- Member's repudiation of the Convention duced. He could not find fault with would not have the smallest effect on those hon. Members below the Gang- the Committee. The hon. Member acway who had used this Vote as an occa- tually read his own speech of a year sion for protest, because they felt them- ago, as, on the last occasion this Vote selves in a position of great security, was before the Committee, he referred which the Government did not share. to his speech of the year before. He They had an immense advantage over (Mr. Warton) rose to follow up, to a the Government, because the Govern- certain extent, what the Premier said ment were responsible for the fulfilment with regard to the impropriety of raising of the engagements of the country, and this question at the present time. The amongst the engagements of the country hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary was certainly that of the reasonably of State for the Colonies (Mr. Evelyn good government of Cyprus. If it be Ashley) had said Cyprus had suffered true that the government of Cyprus was from bad seasons; but the hon. Gentleextravagantly carried on, the Govern- man did not mention one of the most ment would welcome the help of all important products of the IslandMembers of the House in cutting down namely, the olive. The greatest plagues the expenditure; but he must observe were the locusts; but, through the efforts that the position of hon. Members who of the Governor in offering rewards for had objected to this Vote was peculiarly their destruction, they were fast disapfelicitous, because they were able to pearing. enjoy the satisfaction of repudiating what they deemed a mischievous Vote, at the same time knowing they were not running the slightest risk of involving the Government in that breach of faith which would occur if the Vote were not agreed to. SIR JOHN LUBBOCK said, he hoped his hon. Friends would be satisfied with having raised this discussion. He felt it would be impossible to go into the Lobby with his hon. Friend (Mr. Arthur Arnold), although he felt strongly the force of the observations he had made. Upon a thorough examination he thought it would be found that Cyprus really cost not far short £150,000 ayear. The government of Cyprus was being carried on to the extent of about one-half by the taxes paid by the people of Cyprus, while the other half was paid by this country. The Committee was bound in justice to support the Government; but if these large Votes were to come up year after year, a decided stand would have to be taken and a reconsideration made of the whole question. Question put. The Committee divided: Ayes 59; Noes 21: Majority 38.-(Div. List, No. 329.) THE CHAIRMAN: This being the last Vote in Supply, the Question is that I report these Resolutions to the House. Resolutions to be reported To-morrow. ANCIENT MONUMENTS BILL [Lords.] (Mr. Shaw Lefevre.) [BILL 263.] SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."-(Mr. Shaw Lefevre.) MR. WARTON said, he rose to move the rejection of the Bill. The Chief Commissioner of Works had rashly committed himself to the strange assertion that no one except the right hon. Member for Whitehaven (Mr. Bentinck) objected to the Bill. He objected to the |