can, therefore, justly say that, within my experience, the Chinese Government was not then, and, in my belief, is not now, zealous in opposing the opium trade. I admit that a Party in China has always there existed opposed to opium consumption; but whilst most active in crying out against imported opium, that Party was, and is, silent as respects the Native opium so extensively grown in different parts of the country.

Then, as respects the Opium Revenue, my hon. Friend the Member for Orkney (Mr. Laing) has freely avowed his opinion as to that revenue being more regular than any other Branch, and his experience entitles that view to confidence, the more so as the accounts of that revenue fully bear out the opinion. I find that for 14 years the net revenue from opium has been well maintained, having increased nearly £1,500,000 since 1867-8, as my statement shows.

The figures show that whilst the actual increase has been in total revenue from 1868-9, only £1,527,748. Madras and Bombay have furnished The net Opium Revenue, after de- £1,341,701, and the rest of India only ducting all charges, is as follows:-In £186,047. This large increase has been 1867-8, £7,049,415; 1868-9, £6,733,215; brought about by unequal, if not un1869-70, £6,132,387; 1870-1, £6,031,034; just, additions to the tax on the salt of 1871-2, £7,657,187; 1872-3, £6,872,415; Madras and Bombay. In the ratio of 1873-4, £6,323,395; 1874-5, £6,214,782; population, the yield of Salt Revenue in 1875-6, £6,252,026; 1876-7, £6,280,781; these two divisions ought not to exceed 1877-8, £6,521,337; 1878-9, £7,699,032; | £2,000,000, against £5,000,000 from the 1879-80, £8,249,808; and for 1880-1, £8,451,185.

The variations in the annual amounts are not owing to changes in the taste of the Chinese, but to the many fluctuations in Calcutta in the mode of disposing and storing the opium to suit the financial wants of the time.

One more, and the last, question I wish to submit for the consideration of the House is the Salt Tax. Long before I had a seat in Parliament I advocated the policy of freeing salt from taxation; and since I have been in the House I have urged, both inside and outside, free trade in salt throughout India. But, on this occasion, I shall confine myself to the question of the unjust bearing of the Salt Tax on Madras and Bombay. In 1868-9, out of a gross revenue of £5,588,240 from salt from all India, Bombay and Madras were called on to yield only £1,722,846. In 1880-1, that yield had actually been increased to £3,064,541 out of a gross revenue of £7,155,988.

I hold in my hand a Statement of the Indian Salt Revenue for 14 years as follows:

General Sir George Balfour

rest of India.

In the earlier years

of this century, Madras salt was practically free till 1805, and mainly so in Bombay till 1837. In these years a maund, or 82lbs. of Madras salt, was first taxed at 9 annas and 4 pie, and Bombay salt 8 annas. These rates gradually swelled up to 40 annas in Madras and Bombay, and recently lowered to 32 annas. The former large consumption in Madras has fallen off by reason of these large augmentations. I can only add a few words in warm support of the views of the right hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees (Mr. Lyon Playfair). I believe with him that vast beneficial results to the people, cattle, and traffic, would follow from the abolition of all duties on salt. The great cheapness arising from this freedom would insure a largely increased supply of salt for the people and cattle; at least 20lbs. per head might be the annual consumption, making about 60,000,000 maunds of salt consumed in all India, instead of one-half of that quantity as at present. Such an extension could not fail to improve the health of the people, and greatly benefit the cattle for agri

culture. Free salt would also cause a they said that so great a charge ought wonderful extent of increased traffic. not to be placed on the Revenues of The salt sources of India are conveniently India. When the House re-assembled placed in centres from which traffic would on the 24th of October next, the noble easily spread throughout all India. I Marquess would have to state something cannot too strongly urge on the noble more with regard to this matter; and Marquess the policy of free salt. No hon. Members ought to have before statesman has ever had so grand an them, when the time arrived, the actual opportunity as free salt offers of effecting cost of the Expedition from India. He so great a benefit to 250,000,000 of was quite certain that the noble Marpeople. I can only express an earnest quess would not say that the whole of wish that the noble Marquess will any such sum as had been named should avail himself of the opportunity by be charged upon the Indian Revenues, declaring salt free, and make the fame seeing that India had nothing to do with of our Empire extend throughout all the commencement of this war. With Asia. the permission of the House, he would read an extract from the despatch of Sir Edward Malet, the concluding words of which were remarkable. Sir Edward Malet said

tlemen familiar with the subject, as well | had been adopted that the Provincial as from the documents in connection Governments should have greater conwith it that had been placed in his trol and interest in the Expenditure. hands, that the cost of the Government That system was initiated by Lord Mayo, of India would be greatly diminished and had been followed by successive if a large number of Natives were em- Governments, including that of Lord ployed in the Civil Service. These men Lytton. It was an essential part of that had more sympathy with, and know-policy that the Local Governments should ledge of, the people than Europeans, and their employment would tend, as much as anything he could think of, to popularize the Government, and would provide an opening for educated and aspiring Natives, who, under the present arrangements, were very inadequately provided for. In view of the enormous and increasing expenditure of the Indian Government and the easy means of diminishing it by the method which he advocated, he trusted the subject of the employment of Natives in the Civil Service of India would receive the favourable consideration of the noble Mar-site (Lord George Hamilton) the fear quess.

be permitted to exercise some discretion in the expenditure of the funds. If, when they accumulated a balance, it was taken by the Central Government for the payment of debt, it would tend to prevent that policy being in any way carried out. If the Local Governments considered that in no way could they more thoroughly promote the prosperity of the district over which they ruled than by a wise expenditure on Public Works, it would be unwise to impose any stringent limits on that policy. He did not share with the noble Lord oppo

as to an undue expenditure on Public Works. So long as the Supreme Government and the Local Governments confined themselves to the Revenue of the year, he did not think they could be said to be going into extravagance. With regard to the appointment of Mr. Hope, he was a man of experience in financial matters, and would be likely to restrict rather than encourage expense. The House was aware of the

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON said, that he would reserve his observations on the matters of detail which had been discussed until they got into Committee; but at that time, with the leave of the House, he would reply to the general questions of policy which had been raised. The chief question raised by the noble Lord the Member for Middlesex (Lord George Hamilton) and the hon. Member for Mid Lincoln-machinery that existed for the supershire (Mr. E. Stanhope) was with reference to the increased expenditure on Public Works. Both hon. Members seemed greatly alarmed at what they considered the tendency to an increased expenditure in that direction. He (the Marquess of Hartington) had already explained that no change had been made in the limit imposed by the Secretary of State, under the direction of Parliament, on the amount which might be borrowed for direct outlay on Public Works. With the exception of certain temporary assistance, which had been given to private Companies for limited purposes and which would be repaid, no extension whatever had been permitted to arise of the liabilities of the Government of India for the extension of Public Works. The increased Expenditure upon Public Works had taken place out of the Revenue of the year, mainly under the direction of the Local Governments out of the surpluses which they had accumulated in past years. It was an essential part of the system which

Mr. R. T. Reid

vision of the construction of public works by public Companies in this country. They had officers of the Board of Trade and machinery of various kinds to watch over the management of enterprizes of that description; but in India no machinery of the kind existed; these enterprizes were under the control only of the Council. There was, at the present moment, increased activity in that direction, and the Government had numerous applications for assistance. It was extremely desirable, therefore, that these proposals should be dealt with by some skilled person. He did not question the ability of the Members of the Council who had to deal with these enterprizes. But the Government had come to the conclusion that they should be dealt with upon some definite line of policy, and that it was worth while to appoint some person of the Civil Service who had the requisite ability and financial knowledge to enable him to deal effectively with the proposals that were coming in upon them. He could assure

Question, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," put, and agreed to.

the hon. Member for Mid Lincolnshire | that complete information on a subject (Mr. E. Stanhope) that there was no of this kind could be transmitted by intention on the part of the Govern- telegraph. If further information were ment to make that a starting point for required on the various points menan increase of extravagance. The hon. tioned in the course of this discussion, Member had asked him a question on a he would supply it after they had gone subject of the greatest importance with into Committee. reference to the Resolution of the Go- MR. WARTON said, he wished to vernment of India on the question of make just one observation to express his Local Self-Government. That Resolu- regret that the precedent of last year tion indicated, no doubt, a policy which had been followed this year in the the Government of India desired to pur- matter of bringing on the Indian sue; but it did not indicate any settled Budget. He hoped it would not esintention on their part as to the extent tablish a fixed habit of the House to that the Provincial and Local Govern- take the Indian Budget on the last ments should proceed in this matter. Monday of the Session. The course It merely laid down certain principles they had adopted showed that the Goon which the Indian Government thought vernment had not a proper sense of the their policy ought to proceed. But the relative value of certain kinds of Busicircumstances under which the develop-ness. He hoped they would do better ment of Local Self-Government in India another year than waste the Session in must proceed would necessarily differ attacks on the House of Lords. widely in different parts of India. In the more advanced parts it might be possible to grant a larger share of Local Self-Government than could take place in the wilder portions of the country. No considerable change in this direction could take place without legislation, and there could be no legislation without the consent of the Indian and of the Home Government. The views of the Secretary of State in Council had not yet been communicated to the Government of India, as they were not yet in possession of all the Correspondence which had passed with the Local Governments. The subject had not been lost sight of, and he could not refrain from giving a general approval to the principle laid down by the Resolution published by the Government of India. Some persons of great Indian experience thought it indicated too rapid a rate of progression in the present state of India; but it only indicated the general lines on which it desired the Local Governments to proceed, and it did not sanction any par

ticular measures in this direction. He did not think he need enter into any further details. The hon. and gallant Member who spoke just now (Sir Walter B. Barttelot) travelled rather far when he discussed the question of the garrison of Alexandria. The hon. and gallant Member suggested that he (the Marquess of Hartington) should telegraph to India for further information as to the War Expenditure. He had already telegraphed for information to the Government of India; but it was impossible

MATTER considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, fore this House, that the Ordinary Revenue "That it appears by the Accounts laid beof India for the year ending the 31st day of March 1881, was £63,178,192; the Revenue from Productive Public Works, including the Net Traffic Receipts from Guaranteed ComRevenue of India for that year £72,559,978; panies, was £9,381,786, making the total that the Ordinary Expenditure in India and in England, including Charges for the Collection of the Revenue, for Ordinary Public Works, Productive Public Works, was £67,344,896; and for Interest on Debt, exclusive of that for the Expenditure on Productive Public Works (Working Expenses and Interest), including the payments to Guaranteed Companies for Interest and Surplus Profits, was £9,259,437, £76,604,333; that there was an excess of Exmaking a total Charge for that year of penditure over Income in that year of £2,044,355; that the Capital Expenditure on Productive Public Works in the same year was £3,238,070; and that there was also an outlay

on the East Indian Railway of £418,435."

MR. R. N. FOWLER said, the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for India was good enough to say that he would answer any question that any hon. Member might think it desirable to put in Committee. He (Mr. R. N. Fowler) should like to know what provision had been made for the reduction of the duty on Malwa opium?

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON : No provision has been made for the reduction of the duty.

MR. R. N. FOWLER: What is the alteration?

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON:
I am not certain what the reduction is
−50 rupees a-chest, I think.
Question put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

ELECTRIC LIGHTING BILL. CONSIDERATION OF LORDS AMENDMENTS. Lords Amendments considered.

years" should be adopted as a compromise between the term proposed by the Government, and that proposed by the Electric Lighting Companies. The House in Committee, therefore, after very fully considering that question, fixed on 15 years as a mean average between the two. Electric lighting, undoubtedly, at the present time, was in an experimental stage; and he feared that, if they extended the term from 15 to 21 years, they would run the risk of creating monopolies such as those already MR. WARTON said, that when the given to the Gas Companies. The right Bill was before the House of Commons hon. Gentleman the President of the in Committee, he moved several Amend- Board of Trade (Mr. Chamberlain) had ments at the bottom of page 1 and at entertained this opinion himself when he the top of page 2, which he believed to brought forward the Bill for second be essential for the purpose of removing reading. The right hon. Gentleman obscurities; but his proposals were re- had said then that the term contained jected. He had also taken the liberty in the clause was the result of a comof moving that the Bill be re-committed; promise; and, accordingly, having fixed but to no purpose. Now, however, the the period of 15 years as being midway Amendments he had wished to see in-between the two previous proposals, the serted had come down from the House of Lords.

MR. CHAMBERLAIN said, the hon. and learned Member for Bridport (Mr. Warton) had somewhat misrepresented what had occurred. When the Amendments referred to were moved, he (Mr. Chamberlain) had promised, on the part of the Government, that they would be carefully considered, and, if found compatible with the drafting of the Bill, inserted at the next stage. There had been no next stage in this House, however, as there had been no Report. In the interval between the Bill leaving the House of Commons and its Committee stage in the House of Lords, the Amendments had been considered in detail, and introduced into the Bill at the instigation of the Government.

Lords Amendment in page 12, line 32, leave out ("fifteen years") and in.

sert

("Twenty-one years or such shorter period as is specified in that behalf in the application for the Provisional Order or in the special Act.")

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."-(Mr. Chamberlain.)

SIR JOHN JENKINS said, he objected to the Lords Amendment. The question was very fully discussed on the occasion of the second reading in that House; and he understood that it was then agreed that the term "fifteen

Committee had considered 15 years amply sufficient to enable the Electric Lighting Companies to make the necessary experiments. The object of the Committee was to avoid throwing an obstacle in the way of the Companies, and to see that the interests of the public did not suffer from the creation of a monopoly similar to that in the case of gas. He believed that all the Electric Lighting Companies, with the exception of the Edison Company, had expressed their approval of the term fixed by the Committee, looking upon 15 years as sufficient time to enable the Companies to make proper experiments. That view was pretty generally entertained throughout the country, and amongst hon. Members who had given the matter their consideration. It was very unfortunate that a question such as this should be brought forward in the closing days of the Session, when a large number of hon. Members had left town, and were, consequently, unable to take part in the discussion. In Gas Bills and Water Bills there was some restriction as to the prices that were to be charged for the commodities supplied under their provisions. In this measure, however, there was no limitation whatever, and, moreover, he was assured, there was no means of accurately measuring the quantity of electric current which would be supplied to private individuals or for public purposes. There was no limitation as to profit which might be made ;